The Ethics of Looting from the Looter Majority

Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 8 months ago to Philosophy
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Are these unethical behaviors more common among looters? Are they even more conscious of the unethical nature of what they do, perhaps even to the point that some "right" end justifies the wrong means?

Is this manipulative behavior fundamental to a looter's philosophy, or are these just individual bad people?
SOURCE URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/us/pennsylvania-attorney-general-kathleen-kane-resigns.html?_r=0


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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 8 months ago
    Politicos just love to get down in the mud. For some it is always the end justifies the means and it is fine as long as they have good intentions (at least in their mind). Undoubtedly their thought process goes no deeper than that. Decency and integrity have no place in the cesspool.
    O tempora o mores!
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 8 months ago
    Unethical behavior seems a disease of the political class, whether liberal or conservative. Conservatives can be accused of hypocrisy, since their public statements are usually laden with pious lectures about morality. Liberals, on the other hand, seem to have an easier time pulling these shenanigans with a complete lack of guilt, since their morality (such as it is) is strictly relativistic. Liberals consider each event as isolated and unique, so that what might be viewed as an immoral or unethical act by a conservative on a universal basis may be viewed as righteous and justifiable by a liberal due to the circumstances involved.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      Perhaps you have stumbled on the first good definition of conservative and liberal . Unethical
      Participants Disease. used mostly by a media of equal moral values. .
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 8 months ago
    I have considered this so many times and yet have been unable to ever pull the trigger. Finding reports that grants had been paid ($300,000) to find out why garbage men get tired at their jobs; conclusion it is difficult physical work, made me think I could write that report with a H.S. degree. They are stealing from me for this nonsense! Why would it be wrong to steal some of it back so I could live better instead of always having less so the looters can survive better. Never could justify it in my soul, too much integrity I suppose.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 8 months ago
      I don't think that stealing from a thief is wrong.
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      • Posted by chad 7 years, 8 months ago
        Especially if they stole from you first? I usually avoid people whom I don't want to deal with because of their immorality. What happens when the thief is given access to you by mandate (law)? You can no longer avoid the thief, then is it justifiable?
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        • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 8 months ago
          The original statement was actually a lead-on to our interactions with the government. Today, I think that only a brainless fool cannot see that our government has lost the moral legitimacy and is ruling by force alone. By definition, that makes it a criminal. It's criminal acts include stealing from those that it can and enriching the pockets of those at the feeding troth. It follows, then, that any form of stealing from the corrupt government, although carrying the risk of government's force, is morally justified.
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          • Posted by chad 7 years, 8 months ago
            I would agree, the risk of course is the government's wrath and its 'legal' right to use violence to enforce its theft where you would have to be clever and undetected.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 8 months ago
              If the question is that of morality, then I assert that an individual is morally justified in requisitioning his property from the thieves. Whether the thieves constitute an individual, a gang or a government, is irrelevant. The premise here is that when a government loses its moral authority, it devolves into a gang. As to the actual actions to be taken, that depends on the risks one is willing to take, same as dealing with a gang. Often, brains are better than muscles.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
              Never served a day. To them it was just taking out the garbage. August and September were the best months when the government does anything and everything to use up it's budget for FY Now to qualify for an increase in FY Next. Others had a less egoist look. Like the lower ranking people who raided the mess hall for leftovers to feed their families. Had to show them how to make it look like they were taking out the garbage.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
            If you are using their system against them and in doing so recouping any thing wrongfully taken it's a matter of value received for value taken. There is no immorality since one is not part of their social contract. Further more one may fairly add expenses and prevailing interest perhaps but no one penny more nor one penny less. The government is run so slip shod one would have to recover tens times or a hundred times as much to be noticed.

            If the situation happened where i was part of the social contract - willingly - re-evaluate my my moral standards and for me that still comes to an amount certain not one penny more nor one penny less. To date i have never come out behind nor ahead. But I did the math.
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 8 months ago
    Looters are unethical. If you choose to loot the looters you create a problem for yourself; if the government looters find out you can go to jail, whereas when we catch the looters which happens all the time they get the don't go to jail card. If one can get-a-way with looting the looters go for it.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
    In my learned opinion...No, they are not more conscious...in fact, they are less conscious or are not conscious at all...most I would think fall into this category.
    Is it possible that a weak, conscious person could ignore their own conscience...maybe, if they have no voice. I have been canvasing young people for the past 6 months and 80% in their mid to late teens say they have no voice, they can't even rehearse a speech in their heads without moving their lips. That's shocking!
    According to Jaynes, during bicameral preconscious times, this has happened before in history during our worst of times, just prior to the flood perhaps but also during the ascension of awareness at the fall of some of the greatest civilizations (Greece and Rome)...seems to be a cycle of sorts but I have been investigating other causes of this.

    To be objective, one conscious could ignore or fight the voice for ideological reasons or vengeful reasons; even for purportedly good reasons. But it's hard work, It takes a very strong willed person because it needs constant attention and that person harbors a growing self hatred as a result. I wish I could post it here, but a mentor once described an early on line discussion, back in the days of "you got mail", with such a person. He said, he had to stuff his guilt deeper and deeper, making excuses to himself and distract himself from hearing his inner voice. It was exhausting but had not yet reached the point where he couldn't take it any more...and those times do come profoundly for people like this...they end up confessing in a verbal vomit session.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
      Regarding your second paragraph, would you attribute any of the cause of this renaissance of bicameral thought to lack of need (living to easy a life) and/or lack of natural selection?
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
        Lack of need, being coddled?...maybe, but I would first look at a lot of nutritional and prescriptive drug practices, then education then see if the Hovering parents paradigm figured in.
        I also would consider cosmic, earthly and solar electromagnetic cycles too...these things do play upon the brain, after all, it is electric in nature.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
          Need seems son much larger and tangible an effect.
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
            Need...need to make sense of everyone else's voices when ancient societies built great cities and everyone was living on top of one another helped to bring about conscious awareness, conscious introspection, examining behaviors and needing some truths to live by...The Ten Comandments comes to mind here...even though it was thought that the voice was from outside one's self, it was obvious it was the subconsciously collect thoughts that brought this to the brain...even still, most needed that external fear of consequence to abide by it, but once the voice got weak or just plain stopped...they unknowingly went back to the temptations of the brain...it's been a long hard journey and you might observe, many, still today, have not made the transition into introspective self rule. (conscience).
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  • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
    It is called MOB mentality and actually has been explained in psychology. I was an MP and we were taught in times of riots and such people get caught up in the moment and are not necessary like that normally. However it is my opinion that SOME of them are being manipulated and or PAID TO RIOT mrpesident2016.com
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
      I think you misunderstood the use of the word "looter" here.
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      • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
        paid TO riot! They are a mob that is looting.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
          Rioting? Who is rioting?
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          • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
            Chicago , BLM bunches of unhappy people
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            • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
              What does that have to do with the Attorney General lying?
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              • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                What are you talking about, AG?/
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                • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
                  The post is about the socialist-democrat AG of PA, lying and cheating to advance her office, being convicted of perjury and resigning. The additional text is about whether socialists/liberals are more inclined to this sort of behavior and/or the concept of the end justifies the means. How did we get to mobs?
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                  • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                    looters, many of them = mob. As I said some of them are paid to instigate, are they more inclined, don't know maybe more inclined to be manipulated
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                      Might have helped if you had been a real cop. Jack Reacher though much admired 'is' fiction. Having been both I understand the difference. MP's are neither soldiers nor are they police. The descriptive word is 'confused.'
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                      • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                        excuse me. I was taught to be the Army of the Air force defending the base and killing any that would threaten security, that sounds like a real soldier. I was also taught to do investigation like a detective, which sounds like a real cop. I was further taught to guard and secure NUCLEAR weapons in case of a broken arrow. You have been both what?
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                        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                          Some people believe anything. Infantry and both uniformed and non uniformed police officer.

                          The pecking order starts with having jurisdiction over both military and civilian communities. Yours stopped at the edge of the base. Mine stopped in the chair behind your Commanding Generals desk.

                          Don't forget to say back in the 'day' since one day is all it takes anymore to claim bragging rights. Here all this time I thought you was a real soldier. My apologies to Jack Reacher'
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                          • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                            during a broken I had jurisdiction over EVERYONE. During martial law I have jurisdiction over EVERYONE. The sheriff is the ONLY lawful authority in the county because he is elected. All the rest are hired by an incorporated agency which makes them, incorporated, a business, which would make you a rent-a-cop. Corporation = rent-a-cop, NOT a real cop.
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                            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                              What is a broken. I have yet to find that in any of the statute manuals or references. Delusions of misplaced grandeur. abound.
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                              • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                                broken arrow , nuke accident, Also I have jurisdiction OVER the base commander if he breaks the law.
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                                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                                  Now the limits are stated. However to be fair it dawned on me since it's today and not back in the old days plural we now have something called Joint Bases such as McChord Lewis or Bragg Popeand their may have been a terminology change from Air Police to Military Police and the DOD Poice may have pursuit rights with the local community in certain circumstances which would constitute a Status of Forces agreement. but for a federal police officer IF their charter indicates as did ours we had nation jurisdiction. That included one batallion commander and a few Company Commanders and commandeering the use of MPs when needed - usually when a mix of civilians and military were involved and that required us to take over immediately. Didn't work the other way off post. Nuclear Accident involved AEC for starters and come to think of it I can't remember one occuring although security penetration tests were usually and always successfully carried out by some of the SOF units.
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                            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                              Oh thou of little experience. when did you experience martial law ever? answer Never. Federal Police officers are always within jurisdiction everywhere and if anything that happens on post or base involves a civilian including dependents have superior jurisdiction unless in certain cases it involves DOD police.. What a poseur you are. Standing security watch and dreaming of what you could have been. and thick veryi thick rentacops are not sworn police officers at any level especially Air Police. Which means you were never an MP that's Military Poice in the real military and even in the Army they were considered servant cllass being just suipport troops..
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                              • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 8 months ago
                                you were never sworn. I was when I joined. You are not a veteran, can't be I have NEVER met a veteran that would insult another veteran. When were you in?
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                                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                                  Always a first time and I think you got the meeting in reverse order. Where were your drops? War stories have their place but they have to based on fact to be credible. Howevcer there is sure cure.
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                                  • Donald-Brian-Lehoux replied 7 years, 8 months ago
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                          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                            My apologies to the rest of the veterans community. None of this has anything to do with the subject of the thread.
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                            • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
                              I'm just teasing the chair force guys too! I heard this Sunday from a retired Air Force O5, now general manager and soccer buddy.
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                              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                                Chairborne Rangers are clerks.
                                Spoons are cooks
                                MPs and APs the correct term for ChairForce. the Navy uses Marines sometimes and Master At Arms but then they also call uniform sets ....ensembles.

                                Which ever they weren't earning the right to salute Hillary for damns sure.
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                                Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                                Chairborne Rangers are clerks.
                                Spoons are cooks
                                MPs and APs the correct term for ChairForce. the Navy uses Marines sometimes and Master At Arms but then they also call uniform sets ....ensembles.
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