The minimum wage should be lowered not raised.

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 10 months ago to Economics
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Make sure to read the full article...in PDF form.

You know, I realized something while reading this article: Let's suppose that this raising of the minimum wage thing is not a progressive attempt to increase everyone's worth nor to cash in on getting more taxes and regulating businesses more and more.

In a down market, a highly skilled and temperamented worker will have no choice but to work a minimum wage job or two...this will leave the younger less experienced worker at a disadvantage...not just disadvantaged but outright disempowered from learning an important life long lesson: How to produce and create value in the work place, how to behave in that work place and learn work place work ethics. Sometimes these are hard learned lessons but once they are learned that young person will apply these lessons over their working life, whether they work for someone else or for themselves, not to mention learning how to be fiscally responsible among a host of other life lessons. In short, these young folks, having these experience will likely never have to depend upon pappa and momma government.

Now, raising the minimum wage would force this to happen, also forcing small and low wage skill businesses to look for alternatives in order to stay in business and to stay competitive. But...what does this do to the older more experienced worker? Wouldn't this disempower them also...in spite of the higher wage offer, even if it was close to that persons previous wage. We are forgetting the importance of, responsibility and satisfaction,; never mind having to work doing menial tasks, which would have to be boring as hell; wouldn't this play a role in that persons self worth?, his ability to provide for himself and family and even with the most humble person with family understanding, isn't this the biggest downer a man or women might experience. Might they, in an effort and even justifiably so, try to recoup some of that lost income from the very government that created this situation in the first place? Even if they have always been self supporting their whole life up to this point? It happens.

We might be tempted to say these individuals are weak and can't compete...but how many of us that haven't had the benefit of a skill set that can be applied to many occupations could effectively deal with this situation.

Those of us that have these widely marketable skill sets or even hobbies that could turn a buck are the lucky ones...we had those life long lessons at an early age...but what of those that came after us?

What I'm asking here is: Could this be the progressive reason and plan to get us all, young and old to be more dependent on government and perhaps to break our spirit in some respect?


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's done by Presidencies in order for the most part. in the Ledbetter series and in Hillsdale by major topics. At the time it was a choice used by the aristocracy to deal with the rising middle and lower classes and keep control in what was the third wave I think of the industrial revolution. They wanted cannon and factory fodder and women still baby factories to feed either need. Progressivism provided a way to do that with controls All thoughts of a Constitutional Republic which started to disappear even as early as Jefferson's time really took a back seat as democracy took over which of course led to socialism and a one party system.

    I recall one book which had Ford and others deciding what level of education for the masses and it was 8th grade for the workers, Secondary for the technicians and University for the ruling class. The levels went up but the qualitiy of education went down so a McGuffeys reader and it's contemporaries will contain quiz material far beyond most high school and a great deal of todays college/university students. Another form of inflation devaluation and repudiation. They only say they are providing education but are not doing so in a realistic manner.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I viewed all those lectures but don't remember learning it opened the door for progressivism. At the time it was a smart choice but perhaps, we would of been screwed whether we protected property or happiness...even happiness has alternative implications...what's happy for me may be unhappy for you...which is exactly were we are at right now.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not really either. It's success was as a compromise to get all 13 to ratify the new Constitution. The North wanted to count zero slaves to defeat the Souths ability to then control the House of Representatives. The South wanted to count all of them but deny the right to vote giving them control of that one House.

    Back then Slave Trade had been banned but the Northerners kept the trade going and the South kept being customers. Like much of the events leading to Sumter most of it was economic,trade, tariffs in nature.

    After the war ended Lincoln offered immediate amnesty to the south and an immediate part in the government (back to the 3/5ths rule) which would have put the south in control again. This went through three changes under Lincoln, Johnson, and Grant ending up with a near century of Jim Crow and Black Laws.

    The Democrats north and south supported those laws and were anti civil rights. the Republicans forgot to follow through after the 15th. Wilson to some extent and Roosevelt to some extent did not and LBJ did the Civil rights act of 1966-67 but openly said that ought to keep them in line and went back to being a leader of an anti civil rights party. Clinton made some speeches and got a lot of credit but did nothing especially ha ha where sexism was concerned.

    Throughout all of this the federal government incrementally gained more and more power but hat started with the 11th and 12th in Jefferson's administration. the 14th if memory serves gave the feds the big initial boost.

    If you look at a map of federal lands you see the results. Great Plains largely settled by a wave of new immigrants the western third is still fiefdom of the federal government. which brings us back to property rights. What did exist was not protected but further weakened. Now a title only means the responsibility to pay property tax and be liable. Nothing else.

    What those moves did and you are right they were acting clever is open the gate for progressivism from 1898 to this very day.

    I'll refer you to the Constitution studies program of Hillsdale which is no charge and Ledbetters series on The Forgotten history of the USA.

    It's all economics and one part fit another part including minimum wage which is based on treating labor as somethinig different than business with different rights and different powers but it IS all supply and demand including the demand for low cost illegal aliens.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OUC was however correct in that the cycle also grinds benefits for some insider concerns,

    Bank America being a prime example and grinds into oblivion other concerns such as the banks that were forced to give loans to deadbeats and then had the value of the foreclosed repossessed properties artificially depressed in that value.

    Each of the parts works in turn like the cogs and gears and teeth in any machine. Grinds you up and spits you out. The new version will probably add a tiny sliver of a tax cut with a huge accumulated VAT bill at the cash register.

    After all every machine benefits from technological advances.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    it's a small cog in the cycle of economic repression nothing more nothing less and it's not a gain when the next step is increased direct and indirect taxes one of which is failure to add into the formula government caused loss of buying power via COLA. I's a sham and in no way increases the standard of living but has the opposite effect for the majority of employees. and all retirees. It's main purpose is vote buying with out expending something of value in exchange.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. To clarify and elaborate on my previous comment, they thought they were being clever and introducing a ploy/poison pill for the future that might bring about an end to slavery. Unfortunately the result was insufficient protection for legitimate property rights in the future.
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  • Posted by illucio 8 years, 10 months ago
    Well, considering that the minimum wage does involve a great investment in its control, meaning more rules, regulations, inspections, etc. it automatically implies more government intervention, higher taxes, etc. And it also works in the defense of the bigger companies and enterprises, that can afford it. It sets a limit for competition, trying to avoid truly awfull working conditions and the quality of life for workers.

    If you take the black or, as I also call it, the "parralel" market; one can compete with the bigger, "safeguarded" industries and take an important, leading place. Go to China and see how many Niike, Adddidas, etc counterfits are going on that produce the same or sometimes even higher quality products. Of course their workers don´t have equal conditions or wages, and that is truly something that human rights comes to worry about.

    Personally I believe the minimum wage is an easy way for a government to set a higher quality of life for its citizens, and that´s not a bad thing. But no system is perfect, and there´s always someone to fall through the cracks. Especially nowadays, in this highly golbalized era. Yet I will say this; if a worker is well kept, in good conditions, that will most probably be a more efficient worker. There are always exceptions, and regulation cannot be so strict as to leave the best worker out of a job due to different issues, whatever they may be. It´s just an opinion. I believe in the minimum wage, yes. And I stand by the fact that it has to be a decent one as well. But there are objections of course, and they are all reasonable. Raising it can put some out of business, or workers out on the street. It´s complex, no doubt about it. The world is not a fair place.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are fundamental economic principals that are just as real as fundamental laws of physics and just as dangerous to ignore. Liberal-progressives believe they can legislate reality and create truth by edict. This thinking is a flawed as thinking you can dilute gasoline with water without reducing the performance of the engine. At some point the motor will stop and you won't be able to start it again.
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  • Posted by $ 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yep...had they used property instead of happiness then the slaves were Their property and therefore making it legal to sell and buy...forever...
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This has happened. Done deal with a bit of camouflage by retaining the name, flag etc. and acting like it's business as usual.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello Olduglycarl,
    I concur. I remember reading about the argument over the language. It was done so as to make it more palatable to the slave owners of the time. It was an unfortunate necessity as they saw it, due to the nature of the times they lived in.
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    inflation devaluation debt repudiation

    In our case the debt repudiation is the COLA adjustment for unfunded retirements primarily military, current retirements and the elderly

    the comment on empowering the middle class by lowering taxes is countered by the added taxes of other types primarily the Pelosi VAT plan all paid for with after tax devalued dollars.

    technical term is Cycle of Economic Repression. The last one wasn't a recession but a repression. Government vs citizens.

    For sure another go round is in the picture as the increase in debt to 20 trillion which should occure prior to January 20th has to be paid for somehow. Are you ready for another hosing?
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think your analysis is right. This time all of the candidates have socialist leanings (even Johnson), but some lean farther than others. I say we would be best off with Cruz or Johnson (but they are not electable now). That leaves Trump as the best choice against Hillary (and its seeming he will not get the votes either). So we get Hillary and proceed rapidly down the path to ultimate socialism.
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    Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But that wasn't in the beginning that happened later on and while it started with Jefferson Madison 11th and 12th it went full flower with the civil war aftermath 13-15th, and then with the 1913 dismantling of checks and balances and income tax when the progressive socialists took over. The government was willingly given those powers by a population interested in Me First Now. Same way all Tyrants are brought into power. Everyone happy and then one day the whining starts but nothing is done to stop or reverse anything. So now we have the ultimate outsider versus the ultimate autocrat. Backs against the wall and everyone looking for an easy way out. There IS NO easy way out. Time to suck it up and start thinking instead play pretend politics.

    You can't change anything when you are powerless.

    1. Stop Enabling
    2. Take Control
    3. Make Changes.

    I see no real effort to get beyond #1. so I'll add this

    4. Learn how to whine quietly.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    it was a great document to set us apart from england and their ways. BUT, it wasnt so great in terms of protecting private property. Once it allowed the government to take from one and give to another, it set in motion the cronyism that destroyed us all. The 2016 election is about how Hildebeast can offer you free goodies if you "stand with her". Its pretty disgusting its come to this. Not that Trump is perfect, as he has a lot of socialism in him too, but anything but Hillary !!
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That wouldnt bother me at all. If someone wants to take drugs, I say "let them". None of my business really. Take away the illegality and you take away a lot of the "coolness" and I say usage would drop.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The key word is 'addiction.' Same reason anti smoking. Second key words is 'self control.' which also applies to prescription drugs. The difference is one has a label the other doesn't. Penalty is still the same for causing injury, death, or property damage.
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