Get ready to be called racists and gun-toting thugs again!

Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years, 8 months ago to News
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The couple who murdered two Las Vegas cops have been associated with swastikas and the "Don't Tread on Me" Gadsden flag. I like the Gadsden flag and support the 2nd amendment, but despise everything about Nazis. However, this story will be used to tar all of us. Just wait and see.


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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And yet I, on the far right, have never even heard of these people...
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's not screwy. It's far more rational and consistent than the "political" spectrum I was taught in highschool, with collectivists on the far left and collectivists on the far right.

    It began with the Pournelle axes, with one axis subsequently being dropped.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_...

    The wikipedia entry has the chart reversed left-right from the one I saw in Pournelle's book.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Right, and I agree with you on that point, but that doesn't disprove my assertion that Socialism is bipartisan, and therefore can manifest on the political right just as easily as it can on the political left.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nice try. right-wingers don't try to revise history. They try to unrevise the left's "interpretation".
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So you're saying socialism is an abstract talking point that can never ever exist. Or can only exist briefly between social states, as anarchy does.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not the political left... the philosophical left. The political left is populated by the philosophical left.

    Left side of spectrum - total collectivist control. Think "Anthem".

    Right side of spectrum - anarchy. Total individualism. Every man for himself.

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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fascism and communism use direct force. Socialism is much more indirect. That's the main difference. Socialism requires the sanction of the victim.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, I will. Lenin's biggest problem with leftists and liberals was that socialism allows someone to willingly choose collectivism, whereas communism uses force to ensure collectivism. Lenin was not willing to wait for that, and given his objectives, he didn't have time to wait. He needed to take bold action, and he did.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There exist plenty of facts. It's simply right-wing historical revisionists in America that refuse to accept the reality of history.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Alright, fair enough. But what makes you think that collectivist mentality is exclusive to the political left?
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I just posted an essay written by Vladimir Lenin himself in which he complains about Leftists and Liberals. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from that is that Lenin was neither a Liberal nor a Leftist, otherwise he would not complain about them. This utterly refutes your claim that Socialism is inherently part of the political left. Are you really going to sit there and deny such strong evidence as this?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Social philosophy that places the whole at greater importance than the individual.

    Spock summed up the collectivist philosophy in Star Drek II: The Wrath of What'sisname:

    Spock: "That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "
    (never have I ever hated any Star Trek villain as much as I hated Spock for uttering that blasphemy).

    And the evil within the collectivist philosophy is that it permits any unspeakable horror, any insane injustice to be perpetrated on the few, or the one, in the name of the collective, the state, the "public good".

    (Aside: My favorite Star Drek movie was "Star Drek IV: Spock Saves the Whales"... Not because it was so entertaining, but because Spock's mommy sets things right:

    " Amanda: Spock, does the good of the many out weigh the good of the one?

    "Spock: I would accept that as an axiom.

    "Amanda: Then you stand here alive because of a mistake made by your flawed, feeling, human friends. They have sacrificed their futures because they believed that the good of the one - you - was more important to them. "

    This is where true civilization first began.
    Human life is not additive.

    Btw, Star Trek IV contains some objectivist, or at least Randian, philosophy. The computer testing Spock asks:

    Vulcan Computer: "What was Kiri-Kin-Tha's first law of metaphysics?"

    And Spock answers:
    Spock: "Nothing unreal exists."
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I disagree; fascism is the same as communism and socialism; the collective takes precedent over the individual, whether you call the collective "the state" or "the people".
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Maphesdus, as usual you are wrong, and I no longer want to continue having this discussion.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you would read your own comment, Maphesdus, you see that it even includes the word "socialist" in there. If you want an example of socialism, they aren't too hard to find.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, the word "Nazi" is just shorthand for "National" according to its German pronunciation (Natsional).

    From Wikipedia:
    ---
    "The full name of Adolf Hitler's party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party). The shorthand Nazi was formed from the first two syllables of the German pronunciation of the word "national" (IPA: [na-tsi̯-o-ˈnaːl])."
    ---
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I gotta stop liking tv shows. I like The Nightstalker, it gets canceled. I like Firefly, and it gets canceled. It's like the networks use me as a negative barometer...
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  • Posted by katrinam41 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you, jbrenner, It is good to be able to listen to others who actually think and I am very grateful to be here in the Gulch.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Penny plan is a so-so start. Government has grown so much in the last ten years that a 1% cut each year just isn't enough.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is fascism that can be either right or left wing, although the line between socialism and fascism is being blurred by the Obama administration.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am not going to disagree with the fascist label for Nazism. Socialism obviously is in the name of the Nazi abbreviation. The BO administration is making clear how little of a difference there is between socialism and fascism.
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