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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 9 months ago
    The conclusion of the article points the way. Any revolution will have to be the product of a military coup, a matter of massive, passive civil disobedience, or a widespread tax revolt that de-funds the government and forces an economic collapse where the government couldn't borrow or get away with printing money to pay debt to other nations. Those nations, rightly unwilling to accept worthless currency, would probably bring about a worldwide depression. It would be like the fall of Rome and perhaps usher in a new dark age... Just as in AS the collapse could be initiated by enough essential producers simply saying, enough is enough. Starve the beast- forcing the collapse. Multitudes of desperate hungry people in the streets would result- Hoovervilles everywhere...At that point the "leaders" would probably hide for fear of being treated like Mussolini. Horrible prospect- there will be no painless solution.

    Unfortunately, it would first take mass incarceration or killings by our government to wake the sheople.
    The debt load will probably bring about such a catastrophe eventually without intervention. The only question is when. All rests on peoples' willingness to continue to have faith in worthless paper.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
      I think that a more probable scenario is like the one that brought down the Soviet Union - after all, the US is becoming more and more like the USSR, only without the ideology that helped sustain it for a while. The end came through general apathy and incompetence. The problem is that instead of correcting the faults, in Russia, and likely in the US, the evil people will not get punished, the evil ideology will not be exposed and banished, instead, the flags will change and the same evil people will cut each others' throats to get to the top and rule again. Until next time...
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      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 9 months ago
        Hello strugatsky,
        Could be. Prognostications always have chance involved. The upside of the collapse of the USSR was that some states broke away and still have some autonomy and hope of change... as long as Putin is unsuccessful in reassembly.
        Respectfully,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
          Yes, there is chance that in the case of a collapse of the US, states may break away and some may even embrace the original constitution. Most states will likely be federalized and lose all freedoms. The former Soviet republics do not speak well of freedoms; more like devolment back to the Middle Ages.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
      Wrong again. it's not a coup. That would be Obama deciding not to abdicate for fear Trump will ruin his non existent legacy and Hillary will take credit for his great and wonderful successes.

      We've had three revolutions. 1776, Civil War, Progressives. This last one set up the First Counter Revolution. Legal, Required, A 24 hour exercise at worst. Probably the oldest standing operational procedure in the nation. No tanks in the street, all calm and peaceful and follows the Constitution implicitly. I would think that after 14 or 15 months someone would have paid attention.
      ';;;to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and Domestic.'

      Why do you think this administration called active, reserve, retired and former members of the military the greatest danger this administration faces. Legal, required, completely constitutional and no one to stop them. Ain't it grand now if only they would remember their oath. Odds of it haippening? 50 50 They will or they won't.

      But remember. It isn't for you. Their oath isn't to those who cry and whine about being forced to choose evil. You don't coumt as well you shouldn't. You aren't you weren't worth the effort. You were found wanting.

      Nope it isn't for people or citizens or the country - none of that. Their oath was to the Constitution. You got and will an almost free ride.

      Question is once they uphold their oath of office why should they give it back to those who stood by doing nothing but accepting evil. Give it back to you? Do you think you are worth it?

      If they do save you from Trump or Hillary that's a side issue. You will come under a program known as Educating Citizens in their Rights and Responsibilities .

      The funny part is it will bve hardly noticed. No tanks no starvation. Little or no resistance. Perhaps a few executions scarcely noticed. No unapproved newspaper or tv reports. Maybe just a letter in the mail.

      Dear SoandSo. Your friends and neighbors have selected you for Citizenship Training. Report to Re-Education Camp. Successful graduates will .... Attendance is mandatory. If iyou don't show up? No sweat the offer is one time only. Go back to work. just like you do every day. Failing in your responsibility does not earn citizenship. Try to register to vote? Sorry Sir, Sorry Ma'am.

      Why not? You think they were going to just give it back? Be like handing a twinkie to a ding dong.
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      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 9 months ago
        Hello MichaelAarethun,
        Galt only knows... Prognostication is always in doubt as chance plays its part. All the ex-military I know still believe in their oath and tell me they would not fire on civilians, but would reject illegal orders, but they have some doubts about some they served with.
        Crazy world. Crazy times.
        Respectfully,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
          Same conclusion. A careerist is not a professional unless it's in the same category as moochers and looters. Those folks doubted are known as dinky dau never did learn how the spelled it.
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 9 months ago
            Interesting statement Micheal, there much to weigh in that statement.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
              It's a racist term though. dinky was not Vietnamese but the GI term for dinks, as in slopes etc. Probably from some actual word they used. Same as Nips for Nipponese, Wops for Without Papers for Italian immigrants or Kike- for immigrant Jews The kike is a symbol from I think the Yiddish alphabet used at Ellis island along with the notation WOP to denote groupings. For the GI it's an intentional dehumanizing term to make the killing of same easier - supposedly. I guess ragheads would be the same in todays military. Granted in the real military not the pentagon version the atmosphere is very anti human on both sides. The PC political crap starts when you cross the Potomac and that is an entirely different battlefield.
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              • Posted by $ 7 years, 9 months ago
                I was referring to this statement
                "A careerist is not a professional unless it's in the same category as moochers and looters"
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
                  Ah yies. You find the same types populating the same vicinities furthering themselves and not the mission nor the country nor their Oaths of Office. A good soldier wouldn't be caught dead driving within ffifteen blocks of Fort Fumble AKA the Puzzle Palace. But guaranteed it's populated by REMFs i explained that one already who don't give a damn about anything exscept paper.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
          They did fire on civilians in Waco and Ruby Ridge. The government only needs to vilify a particular group and it is no longer viewed as innocent civilians. The Stamford experiment demonstrated this very well.
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          • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 7 years, 9 months ago
            I remember... Sad. It would seem a bit more difficult if it were a mass of non-violent protesters. At that point I know some military that would defend them regardless. I wouldn't want to be in that crossfire.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
              Since the days of Kent State and hopefully this is still true that eventuality has been studied to death and instant firirng squads by untrained NG's National Guard hopefully no longer exist. Non lethal weapons are available and deployed. e.g Pepper Foggers. Doctrine always calls for leaving an escape hatch or exit. Preparedness for escalating violence which is common at the WTO riots is planned for at least by the military. Even entry into the site itself is protected and blocked or cordoned off. But in the end at least in my unit shooting an unarmed civilian is not going to happen. Neither is drawing first blood. if they really want to trash the place let them do it and insurance can pay the bill.

              There is a line and it's always explained to death and trained for. That's where snipers come into play. but their rules of engagement are too extreme fo my taste. Another thing we studied and discussed was joining the citizens. Not necessarily out of conviction but as a way of protecting them and that in the end is the whole point.
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      • Posted by blackswan 7 years, 9 months ago
        An interesting read on this subject is "Starship Troopers," by Robert Heinlein. It's considered inappropriate to have a property requirement for being able to vote; how about a military service requirement? How about either/or?
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 9 months ago
          I didn't much care for that novel, my expectations were probably mislead by having seen the movie first.

          While it may be inappropriate, I favor property\business ownership to vote. Why not require those shaping the nation to have a vested interest in the nations success? That certainly would cut-down the power of the mass moochers and the politicians who feed them.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
            They were the book was brilliantly written on at lesst three levels, is the foundation of the History and Moral Philosophy discussions around here and is one of the Bibles of intellectual and political thought. Why are you wasting your time watching movies? That's an almost inexcusable fault that needs correcting.

            I am opposed to poll taxes and citizenship by purchasing invariably it leads to annointed families buying their way in and out of situations such as the draft and they become the moochers as of the leftist trough feeders of today.

            Once you make citizenship a commodity for sale, rent, or lease. Cut down? Au contraire it would create a new class of moochers who not strangely will look just like the present class of moochers or their looter backers.

            Heinleins qualification went like this. First No Draft. No requirement t serve the government in or out of the military. Three no full citrizenship unless the individual made a personal choice to so one thing and one thing only. Volunteer without coersion to put the good of the whole ahead of the good of self in order to make my return secure and safe. In short Rands egoism version of greed.

            The overriding reason was if it is worth doing or defending enough will come forward. If enough do not come forward voluntarily it isn't worth defending or doing. The anti draft movement was a direct result of the worthlessness of the progressive socialist form of government that adds military slavery to it's tool kit.

            Next no one could be denied the right to serve. The line read if it was a blind paraplegic give them a job couonting fuzz on a caterpillar by touch but you must find some way for them to serve.

            Next the list of positions was both civilian and military in nature. Oe couold ask for anything but was guaranteed or promised nothing.

            Upon signing up and thee usual battery of test they were sent home and if they did not return were struck from the roles and never allowed to ask for the privilege again.

            Successful completion led in two directions. At one point full citizenship with the ability to vote, hold any form of public office no just elected with only a few exceptions

            Career status was offered with better pay at some point in all areas. It was not guaranteed.

            Part II at the bottom of the list of the jobs was MI for Mobile Infantry. Looking like a left over it was the hardest job to attain. Successful completion added a few perks. The right to join in the highest levels of government and the right to lead troops in combat. The theory was one who had not 'seen the elephant without buying the farm' were far less likely to vote for wars and far more likely to maintain defense levels than those who only watched movies.

            So admission to officer candidate school required combat time. To Field and General Officers rank even more of that and nomination to the highest office in that system of government even more.

            Each level had a history and moral philosophy class reqiurement. Attendance was mandatory but at high school level no tests were given. That came later.

            Thus the LBJ types were weeded out.

            There's far more but the one that got me was an explanation of how we treat our dogs better than we treat our children. All of the above directly apply to the USA in the late 20th Century and of course the current years.

            The movie sucked, was put out for one reason only. The standard of excellence in the USA is if you see the movie no need to read the book. The left does not want that book generally read nor discussed along with Devil's Advocate by Taylor Caldwell, Not This August by Kornbluth and Pohl, and of course Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

            I despise the statement don't knock it if yiou haven't tried it. But then you have yet to try it.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 9 months ago
    I have thought that our benevolent government has been setting up to protect ITSELF from US for awhile now. The whole NSA thing exposed that in my humble view.
    I wont live long enough to see the absolute police state, but its coming. As the failed socialist policies drag down the society, the government will expand its powers to hide the failures and keep peoples' wealth flowing to the government.

    We should look to Venezuela to see how its going to go here as the wealth is looted to extinction. Venezuela used up its wealth that was funding their socialism, and people dont want to work anymore there as long as they get goodies.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 7 years, 9 months ago
    If one wants to see how a basically peaceful, but armed protest is handled, one needs to look no further than the saga of the Bundys and their sympathizers. If it is done on a small scale there is no chance of winning a revolution and the vast majority of Americans know that if revolution is done on a large scale they will starve to death due to lack or preparation, basic survival skills and available resources. So, I would agree, there will be no large scale armed rebellion. We have become too dependent on Big Brother. The only hope of any successful rebellion is if a majority of the military and government security apparatus say "No sir, I will not obey that order" as happened when the Utah National Guard was told to confiscate weapons during Katrina.
    Magnus Frater Spectat Te.
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    • Posted by terrycan 7 years, 9 months ago
      Utah National Guard was dealing with Katrina?
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      • Posted by ChuckyBob 7 years, 9 months ago
        Yep, they did. The only websites that talk about them saying "No" to the gun confiscation order are pro gun. So the anti gun crowd won't accept them. If you do a web search there is a lot out there. There are also some YouTube videos showing an interview with Staff Sargent May.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 9 months ago
    In some ways, the cell phone is now mightier than either the pen or the sword, but the technology built into the cell phone also makes its impossible to hide from a tyrannical government.
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  • Posted by marc 7 years, 9 months ago
    So, you say that “There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt.”? (http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2016/...)

    Well, if THAT is the case, then why are the global elites doing their damndest to disarm We The American People? Does anyone recall how the First American Revolution began? A bunch of farmers with fowling pieces and woodsmen with Kentucky rifles turned out to stop a few regiments of Redcoats from seizing a stock of arms and powder at Lexington and Concord?

    They did not try to fight the British regulars in stand-up formations; instead, they ambushed them, firing from behind rocks, trees, and walls, using hit-ran-run attacks that were called “partisan tactics” at the time, and would now be referred to as guerrilla warfare.

    As a British Army after-action report phrased it “By this time the Country took y Alarm and went immediately I Arms, and we were thus harassed from behind rocks, tree, wall, stone hedges, and we were unable to meet a Man other than behind a rock, tree, stone wall, ect., who immediately gave his fire and off he went.”

    Eventually, the Continentals became trained and somewhat equipped enough by France so that they could meet the Brits on conventional fields of battle, but until then they had to resort to guerrilla warfare and keep the enemy off-balance until they could fight—and WIN—conventional battles.

    Unable to win? Maybe not at first—but guerrilla tactics can hurt—and ultimately KILL—regular military formations. I refer to the successful Afghani mujahideen campaigns against the Soviets, among others. True, they got a lot of help from the U.S. and other foreign sources, but it would have been worthless without a fierce fighting spirit that anyone trying to disarm and enslave us will soon discover all too many of us still possess!
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    • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
      The Colonials were a different breed, literally. Those were people who emigrated from other countries because they wanted freedom and economic opportunity and were willing to earn it. They were not pampered with handouts, nor did they expect any. Those that were born here, also came from the same stock and valued freedom above all. Can you even for a moment compare an average Colonial with an average American today? As long as the EBT is funded and ESPN is transmitting, they're in a nirvana. As for the government disarming the populace - it's an insurance policy.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
      The answer is quite simple. Thee will be no second revolution because we have already undergone three and one does not repeat the taglines of history. Had you seaid Fourth Revolution ahh that's a different story . Why is tthat important. It shows an indifference to accuracy and what has happened once will happen twice.

      1776
      Civil War
      Progressive Usurption

      No coups
      No counter revolutions so far.
      No fourth revolutions.

      And to what do ascribe this fierce fighting spirit and mastery of guerrilla tactics?
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 9 months ago
    Any revolution will be much more subtle than overt, immediate reversion to firearms. The state of New York demanded that all owners of firearms that could handle large capacity magazines and the magazines for them present them to law enforcement for registration in a state database, or face criminal charges. Less than 5% of the estimated population of such gun owners complied, creating a dilemma for the state. They had never anticipated widespread civil disobedience, and couldn't conceive of the enormity of effort needed to enforce the law, so they elected to ignore it and take no further action.

    I anticipate that "shrugging" will happen wherever such preposterous laws are attempted. Once the effectiveness of defying a government with an inflated sense of self importance becomes more publicly known, the practice will spread until the imperious government administration we all resent will collapse, to be replaced by a more modest form of structure.

    Revolution, but with a whimper, rather than a bang. Shrugging in place makes it unnecessary to find a Gulch.
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    • Posted by EdGoldstein 7 years, 9 months ago
      If the employer did not collect taxes from the employee before he is paid, the system could be collapsed. The power to enforce taxes is absolute control.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 9 months ago
        There are many rules, regulations, and laws that don't involve taxes. Each one ignored builds an increasing image of impotence for the government. Eventually, change becomes necessary, and violent action not in response to violent acts by citizens will begin the collapse.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
      Immediate compliance is not needed nor desire. the use of such laws are for targeting individuals at a later time.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 9 months ago
        You have to have a record of what the individual owns to accomplish this. New York was attempting to create a registration system, and failed. No record, no target. The NICS system only records whether or not the purchase was a "long gun" (shotgun or rifle) or a handgun, so unless you can get a judge at both state and federal levels to agree you can get a warrant to search the homes of all persons who've ever purchased a shotgun or rifle, targeting even a specific type of firearm is a challenge requiring a lot of resources that most law enforcement organizations don't currently have to spare.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
          Like I said it's a law for future use when they want to specifically target someone. Then a lot of laws can be found broken or committed. You want somebody and their car needs searching. break a light or whatever get them taken in for a breath test. Then the police are responsible for that car and all it's contents. If they find something as part of the witnessed inventory well the rule on no looking for shotguns in the glove box or in a part of the car that can't be readily reached from the drivers set. Traffic stop to misdemeanor to felong bing bing bing. That's exactly what those laws are for. Take it far enough you can search a house or a business. That's how it works in real life
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 9 months ago
            If you think you aren't already guilty of violating some law, regulation, or ordinance, then you don't appreciate the creativity of our bureaucratic mandarins who are busy churning out over 1,000 new such paper instruments of oppression a month. The success of an autocratic regime is to generate so many such documents that anyone can be arrested at any time. I think our government has arrived at the point of such success.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
      The government already knows who has which gun and what magazines they have, for most people. When NICS check is done (Brady Bill), the government is supposed to destroy the record after a short time, but time and again states have been found to preserve the record. Besides, technically, the NICS check record itself may be destroyed to comply with the law, but what is to prevent the government from making a copy and calling it by another name? Not as if this hasn't been done before... After all, we still don't know the definition of "is," but, of course, what difference does it make? The government is not going to do anything about those people having "illegal" weapons and magazines. It doesn't need to do anything. It accomplished its goal - all those people are technically criminals; they will sit quiet during any disturbances because they know that they have already broken the law and most will prefer to stay below the radar. Mission accomplished.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 9 months ago
        If you follow the conversation between the seller and the NICS check system, the only information that is passed is whether or not the buyer is purchasing a "long gun" (rifle or shotgun) or a handgun. No other firearm information is given. In most states, there is no record of magazine or ammo purchases (in fact only California is planning on this). The only way government gets more detailed information is by use of a warrant to subpoena a seller's sales records.

        If a civil disturbance reaches the stage where normal, law abiding people have to use their firearms in defense, laws aren't going to mean much. Survival is paramount.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 9 months ago
          All the detailed information on each gun is stored by the FFL. BATF does not need a subpoena to get those records - they must be available to the government at anytime. I think that FFL's have to keep them for 10 years, but most keep them forever. When a person has multiple NICS hits, statistically it is a clear indication that there are not just .22's in the house. The government already has all the information it needs. The point it is making now is to make every gun owner into a criminal and have them sit quiet and afraid. Welcome to the New Amerika - certainly reminds one of Kafka.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 9 months ago
    No, but there could be a secession, and that will also require armed support, albeit more modest.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
      I keep laughing as the question is asked and no once since we war gamed it out during the Carter years has any one realized the ease of a full bore counter revolution . Tune the bass, ditch the strings and KISS.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 9 months ago
    Not a pretty picture, A.J.
    I hear the whine, "Why can't we all just get along?"
    The answer? Because we are humans. Our knowledge and science has far outstripped our ability to use our most powerful ability for peace, rationality. We are a young race. As cosmic time goes, we are not even a blip on the time scale as homo sapiens. So far, as a race, we are not mature enough to adopt a rational philosophy which will keep us from one another's throats.
    For longevity, so far, the big lizards make us look like beginners. Which, come to think of it, we are. The motto, "ad astra per aspera" Through hardship to the stars, illustrates that we haven't gotten through the hardship part. maybe 100 years from now. Or 500, or 1,000. We'd still be but a blip on the time scale.
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 9 months ago
    I always get back to the same question; WHAT IS THE END GAME? We the people have for 200 years elected people to be our representatives in a representative government. Over the years that representation has disappeared. So they take over and what do they get. who will want to work for the government. So we could have a shooting revolution of sorts since people will have nothing to do once businesses are gone.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 7 years, 9 months ago
    Seeing what is happening to our Justice System's lack of Constitutional backbone in it's refusal to indict a criminal because of her upper escelon status worries me. Is the FBI Director so fearful of an Obama/Clinton reprisal? The FBI should be investigating the Atty General's meeting w/Bill Clinton at the Phoenix Airport.
    If Trump is correct that the system is rigged, I'm concerned that the electorial process will be manipulated by the Clinton's as to destroy the commonman's vote.
    In the what if scenario of H Clinton be coronated President, that she will try to circumvent the Second Amendment and send out Federales to confiscate firearms from the law- biding citizens. There will be many martyrs who will refuse to obey such oppression. Also, there could be many Federales going home to Washington in bodybags.
    I will vote in November for Trump because the alternative is disasterous.
    Why don't the American citizen get their collective head out of the sand? Have we become a nation of sheep mollified by the internet, Facebook, Pokemon, etc.? When will there be an individual (like a John Galt) or a group to take up the the cause of freedom.
    Maybe a nebulous hacker group like Anonymous to facilitate the demolition of the corrupt federal govt.
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  • Posted by marc 7 years, 9 months ago
    So, you say that “There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt.”? (http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2016/...)

    Well, if THAT is the case, then why are the global elites doing their damndest to disarm We The American People? Does anyone recall how the First American Revolution began? A bunch of farmers with fowling pieces and woodsmen with Kentucky rifles turned out to stop a few regiments of Redcoats from seizing a stock of arms and powder at Lexington and Concord?

    They did not try to fight the British regulars in stand-up formations; instead, they ambushed them, firing from behind rocks, trees, and walls, using hit-ran-run attacks that were called “partisan tactics” at the time, and would now be referred to as guerrilla warfare.

    As a British Army after-action report phrased it “By this time the Country took y Alarm and went immediately I Arms, and we were thus harassed from behind rocks, tree, wall, stone hedges, and we were unable to meet a Man other than behind a rock, tree, stone wall, ect., who immediately gave his fire and off he went.”

    Eventually, the Continentals became trained and somewhat equipped enough by France so that they could meet the Brits on conventional fields of battle, but until then they had to resort to guerrilla warfare and keep the enemy off-balance until they could fight—and WIN—conventional battles.

    Unable to win? Maybe not at first—but guerrilla tactics can hurt—and ultimately KILL—regular military formations. I refer to the successful Afghani mujahideen campaigns against the Soviets, among others. True, they got a lot of help from the U.S. and other foreign sources, but it would have been worthless without a fierce fighting spirit that anyone trying to disarm and enslave us will soon discover all too many of us still possess!
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
    Since there has been three that is a true statement.

    1776
    Civil War
    Progressive Takeover

    No Coups I'm aware of...

    Next up to bat is a counter revolution to restore the guaranteed Constitutional Republic. Miinimal force required, no damage to infrastructure, business as usual. business and government and schools do not shut down.

    Legal, authortized, required.
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  • Posted by RobertFl 7 years, 9 months ago
    It will be a cyber war. Government replies to heavily on technology.
    Since they are so information reliant, planting false information would be key.
    Hackers can shut down, or severely cripple military op's
    I think you also have to ask, how many of our troops would stand with the guberment?

    It won't be armed, it will be a battle of intelligence and ability.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 9 months ago
      They will be armed After all it will be their country not yours. Your wishful thinking ignored. Who are iyou anyway. Their oat said Constitution . That which shit canned. Why should you matter. And there is nothing your unorganized, unarmed, untrained and unworthy couch potato ass can do to stop them.

      50 50 they will or they won't. Fairy tails won't count. Nor will you.

      Are you an active duty, reserve duty, former or retired member? I thought not. Worry about you. You can't spell 'too.' And Tom Cruise is fiction.
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