Newsmax Poll: Majority Want Gingrich as Trump's VP

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago to Politics
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I concur...although the polling sample is only 600 something...could this be a trend?

I think Gingrich could keep trumpet on a leach.

I'm not voting for trump but what do you think of Gingrich as VP?
SOURCE URL: http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Poll-Newt-Gingrich-VP-Trump/2016/07/09/id/737878/?ns_mail_uid=36258238&ns_mail_job=1677264_07092016&s=al&dkt_nbr=jey4ex5f


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  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
    Gingrich is a rabid viro mystic. He is especially dangerous because he is intensely and consciously intellectual, articulate, and knows what he is doing as he puts his viro religion into political practice.

    As Speaker of the House in the 1990s he collaborated with major political and intellectual viro activist leaders, including E.O. Wilson at Harvard. Perhaps the best example of this is that Gingrich abused his enormous power as Speaker of the House to control legislation, sabotaging Republican efforts to roll back the powers of government land control agencies and the litigious viro pressure groups under the power given them by the draconian Endangered Species Act.

    This was a serious betrayal of his supporters who had helped to put Gingrich in his position as Speaker on behalf of the preliminary 'tea party' revolt of the time, and it made him serious enemies who have not forgotten. This was not widely publicized, primarily because the media suppresses almost all mention of the controversy over ESA, but it is a big part of the resistance to Gingrich within the experienced political right today, which regards him as somewhat loony. He is.

    In Gingrich's 2006 book Contract with the Earth with a forward by E.O.Wilson he unabashedly defended his religious viro, anti-private property rights ESA agenda and threatened to do more https://www.amazon.com/Contract-Earth...

    "Environmental stewardship is everyone's responsibility, including Congress's. That is why I worked so diligently as Speaker of the House to protect the Endangered Species Act, historic legislation that has been mired in some controversy. Despite its flaws -- and there are some -- it is an essential conservation tool. In my evaluation of the legislation, I sought the advice of leading biologists such as E.O. Wilson and Thomas Eisner, esteemed members of the National Academy of Sciences. Good government depends on the counsel of our nation's best scientists...

    "Environmentalists are not exclusive to one political philosophy...

    "No single enterprise, event, or idea will renew the earth. Instead, I believe it will take a movement composed of dedicated citizens who can see the world in a new way and who will work together to bring about revolutionary changes in the way we conduct our lives. A Contract with the Earth aims to inspire a commitment to protect the integrity of the natural world and to usher in a promising age of environmental problem solving...

    "I will continue to articulate and address these issues in my public life, and I invite you to participate in a continuing dialogue... [W]ork with us to restore and protect the good, green earth that our Creator has provided."

    No rational individualist should be supporting Gingrich. Unlike those conservatives who espouse religious slogans, but because of mixed premises don't follow them to their logical conclusion in political policy, Gingrich does, and there is no better example of it than his viro Creationism rationalizing abuse of real individuals by the draconian Endangered Species Act in the name of "science" as its handmaiden.

    There are a lot of religious conservatives involved in the battle for private property rights against the viros who remember and understand what Gingrich has done, and it is something that should be spread throughout the Tea Party movement so that others not familiar with Gingrich's intellectual and political history won't be suckered into supporting him.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
      Who is the clown who voted this down? This is an Ayn Rand site. We do not support sacrificing people to nature religion and the destruction of private property rights.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
      There was a lot of resistence to Gingrich's 2008 attempt to move back into the leadership of the Republican Party. Here is a letter published in the conservative Human Events in 2007 forwarded to me by the author, Myron Ebell at CEI:

      "Subject: FW: Letter to Human Events on Newt Gingrich, 15/10/07
      Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:16:07 -0500
      From: Myron Ebell

      "As the RNC considers the candidacy of former Speaker Newt Gingrich for RNC chairman:

      "Human Events, 15th October 2007

      "Conservative Forum

      "Gingrich, the Wayward Conservative?

      "I love HUMAN EVENTS and am proud that you have published articles that I have occasionally submitted to you. In that mood, I might congratulate you on the terrific articles in your October 1 issue by Jerry Bowyer on the possible reasons for the collapsing price of New York Times stock ["Why the New York Times Has Been Such a Bad Investment," page 3] and by Deborah Corey Barnes on the financial motivations behind Al Gore's global-warming crusade ["The Money and Connections Behind Al Gore's Carbon Crusade." page 19].

      "But I write instead to quibble-in the strongest possible way-about the headline of your interview with former Speaker Newt Gingrich: "Gingrich Lays out Course for Conservatives for '08" [page 7). Isn't this rather like the leftist publications and politicians that pretend to give good advice to their dim conservative opponents?

      "While Mr. Gingrich is a highly partisan Republican to whom great credit is due for the Republican congressional victory in the 1994 elections, he has always been a wayward and confused conservative at best. On some fundamental issues, he is much worse-he is a committed opponent of core conservative principles and values.

      "In particular, his beliefs and record on environmental issues have been disastrous for the conservative cause and for the constitutional rights and material wellbeing of millions of rural Americans. Mr. Gingrich was (and perhaps still is) a long-time member of the Sierra Club. Early in his years as Speaker, he blocked a vote on the floor of the House on a major reform of the Endangered Species Act that had overwhelming Republican and significant bipartisan support. Since this harmed Republican electoral prospects, particularly in the intermountain West (and continues to do so), it suggests that Mr. Gingrich put his environmentalist commitments ahead of conservative principles and even ahead of his own partisan self interest. Mr. Gingrich has in recent years taken credit with his allies in the environmental pressure groups as the person who single-handedly saved the Endangered Species Act from reforms that would respect people's property rights.

      "Speaker Gingrich then created a process that gave then-Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (R.-N.Y.) veto power over all environmental bills coming to the floor. Boehlert led a small rump group of liberal green Republicans who seldom voted with the conservative Republican majority on any important issues. The result was that all efforts to pass needed reforms of America's environmental laws were stymied while Mr. Gingrich was Speaker.

      "More recently, he debated Sen. John Kerry [D.-Mass] on global warming. It turned into a love-in, because Gingrich agreed with nearly everything Kerry said. He offered his usual concoction of "visionary" rhetoric about providing incentives to develop the whiz-bang new technology he loves but also added, "I am not automatically saying that coercion and bureaucracy is not an answer." You can say that again. The whole point of global-warming alarmism, like most environmental issues, is coercion and bureaucracy. If the solution to global warming doesn't involve big-government command-and-control, then it's not recognized as a solution. And Mr. Gingrich must know that.

      "On this issue, as on most issues, he tries to escape confronting disagreements between the left and conservatives over fundamental principles by claiming that the real answer is to be found in new technologies administered by new technocracies that transcend these disagreements. This puts him in much the same position as those pathetic Republicans in the 1950s who promoted themselves to voters as more efficient operators of FDR's welfare state. If Mr. Gingrich's innumerable ideas and proposals are going to guide the conservative movement in the future, then please let me off the ship now before it sinks.

      "Myron Ebell
      "Director, Energy and Global Warming Policy
      "Competitive Enterprise Institute"

      Myron wrote to me later

      "Quite a few conservatives read it when it was first published and told me they liked it. When I sent it round again, someone put it on a much larger list with a note saying that this was another reminder of why we had to stop Gingrich. So I think it's had a modest effect. His goofy book has hurt him with some conservatives who thought he was solid. Gingrich said he wouldn't run for RNC chairman, but I think hoped that members of the RNC would urge him to run, which he would then do. But no one did. Or maybe he really didn't want it because he still hopes to run for president."
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 8 months ago
      +1. This did not deserve a downvote. It deserved an upvote, so I gave it one. Although ewv and I have had our disagreements in the past, ewv correctly recalled why I became disillusioned with Gingrich. I honestly had forgotten why, but ewv reminded me.
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      • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
        There has long been a saying in Washington, "After 10 years it didn't happen" -- because almost everyone has forgotten. Never forget. Never let them forget.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 8 months ago
          My memory for history has been pretty solid, but this memory had faded. The fact that this memory had faded was part of the Cloward-Piven strategy of overwhelming opposition with so many egregious violations that some of them get through. Thanks for the reminder.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
      Well! I had forgotten Gingrich's eco-freak mentality.
      You've gotta admit it was a while ago. I wonder where he stands on the issue currently. In any case, I still think he'll make a good candidate, and a great hatchet man, which is the V.P.'s primary job. With all of the messes needing cleaning up if Trump wins, I don't think ecology will play much of a part.
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      • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
        He is worse now and it isn't irrelevant. The "ecology" movement, aka viros, is a very big part of the statist assault on private property rights.

        The viros are intensifying their controls and lobbying for more money. EPA has made new rules for itself controlling arbitrary land in the name of the Clean Water Act, shutting down coal mines, etc. The National Park Service is expanding and imposing more controls with other agencies, bypassing laws requiring Congressional approval using agency rule-making and presidential decrees of National Monuments. Viro activists are suing the government to "force" it through "friendly law suits" in collaboration with ideologues inside the agencies to impose restrictions, including using "Endangered Species" as the excuse. New legislation would provide more money to USFWS to expand with eminent domain. They are on the verge of making the Land and Water Conservation Fund, used to buy private property under the threat of eminent domain, permanent -- as a step towards making it an entitlement immune from appropriations at all. This is very serious.

        Donald "eminent domain is wonderful" Trump and "intellectual" Newt "Creationist Contract on the Planet" Gingrich is an ugly combination.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
          Mrs. Clinton is uglier.
          In any case, the Trumpeter hasn't named a VP as yet, so we'll see very soon.
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          • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
            Clinton has uglier intentions only because the anti-intellectual Pragmatist Trump doesn't know what he is doing. But he has, like Pragmatists in general, been easily swayed by explicit statist ideology he adopts as implicit premises. It's the history of the rise of Progressive movement and its influence on exercise of raw power. Trump could do as much continuing damage by letting someone like Gingrich influence political appointees and continue to dominate him intellectually, while he concentrates on other, more publicly visible policy.

            That is what happened under Clinton I under Gore's and Babbitt's viro ideology allowed to operate largely out of the major media coverage. It was very bad, Gingrich as Speaker of the House made it worse, and it is worse now. No one should be dismissing the misantrhopic anti-private property rights viro movement or Gingrich as VP as somehow not as important as the rest of Progressive statist destruction.
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            • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
              We've got to face the reality that while Trump might turn out to be another FDR, there is absolutely no doubt that Clinton will be epically bad for the country to the point where it will be beyond recovery.
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              • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
                This is a discussion about Gingrich. Trump hasn't even selected a VP nominee yet. Clinton does not justify the idolatry for either Gingrich or Trump, and does not make the viro movement or Gingrich's support for it irrelevant.
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                • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
                  I didn't say anything about irrelevancy. But, there is an order and degree of importance and keeping Mrs. Clinton out of the White House is #1 in my estimation. Everything else falls below that to a greater or lesser degree.
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                  • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
                    You wrote "With all of the messes needing cleaning up if Trump wins, I don't think ecology will play much of a part". It isn't true and Gingrich's fervent and destructive support of the viro agenda is worse. This is a discussion about Gingrich prior to Trump picking his VP, not Clinton.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
        That was the beginning of agenda 21...it was pretty tame then...got worse as time marched on...now it's agenda 2030.
        Ya...I wonder too if he's still on board with it...
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
          The inflammatory quotes from UN functionaries did not come from Gingrich and are not the threat. Gingrich is a goofball "intellectual" and religious nut who was easily swayed by viros like Wilson. Gingrich used his power to facilitate the US pressure groups and their agencies like USFWS, who were into their misanthropic power politics long before they created a largely meaningless flurry by UN radicals with no power. They had already done a lot of damage by the 1970s, long before Gingrich, let alone UN "reports".
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 8 months ago
    Originally the vice president was whoever came in second in the race for the presidency, this is a good way to choose the VP. He will obviously be a counterweight to whomever made president and will be willing to go to work every day in the senate (as he is supposed to) and work against any passage of bills or laws instigated by the president instead of being the presidents lackey basically trying to stay out of the news and not screw anything up for his boss.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      Not if he's of the other political philosophy. I don't even agree with the Act of Succession using Cabinet Secretaries who have zero votes each nor Senators and Representatives who are often of the other party. Sounds suspiciously like an in house revolution to me.
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  • Posted by $ FredTheViking 7 years, 8 months ago
    I think Gingrich as a VP would be good for Trump. I feel better about Trump with Gingrich as VP but that is not saying much. I don't think it would be enough for me to vote for Trump.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
      Too bad, cause if you dont vote for trump you are going to get Hillary, which CANT be worse than Trump. Those ARE the only two choices. We will get one or the other
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      • Posted by $ FredTheViking 7 years, 8 months ago
        I would say either candidate is just a terrible choice. why make a bad choice when Gary Johnson is a solid choice? The way I see it, you are better off picking a third party candidate. You might end up with Hillary but if she is vote in with less than 50% of the vote it will be a very weak presidency. Where she would lack a popular vote it will be difficult for her enact her own agenda. Trust me.
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        • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
          I will support Johnson, but probably not vote for him, as voting for him would help Hillary. Its a good time for Johnson to expose Libertarian principles to the populace and gain support, though.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years, 8 months ago
    Newt is highly intelligent but he is party-first elitist through and through. I do not newt involved in government in an official capacity in any way.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      The choice is Weld, Warren, or Gingrich unless there has been a different selection. At this point no way your going to get anything close to what you want except for a few posters who like the all left wing primary candidate roster.

      Whose finger do you put on the button.

      Seems like this should be as you were doing though a primary and critical discussion. Crap another LBJ. I would walk across the street to piss on his grave.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
    Gingrich is a GD statist looter. Another reason not to vote for the GOP. He was the prime caver to Clinton and set a bad example for every GOP leader since.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      GOP hasn't had any leadership since Gingrich. Just Democrat sock puppets - unless you count James Carville.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
        Since his leadership was to consistently cave in to Clinton, I don't see how things changed. Gingrich was politically astute enough to get the GOP control of the legislature for the first time in 80(?) years and then did nothing with it. He was the first sock puppet in a long line of them.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
          I don't agree. Wanna pull uip a record of who voted for what and which party they belonged too. When the opposition saw what could be done to their socialist paradise plan in 90 days the long knives came out. The passed Contract of America was destroyed and the electins were big time targeted. The freedom to make change for all was destroyed. the Republicans got the messagte. The people may talk a good line but when it comes to losing their share of pork they weren't to be found. Those left are todays RINOs and make up the right wing of the left. yip yip yap yap But i wonder if you believe Clinton balanced the budget with a surplus. as well?
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          • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
            Details, details. Gingrich got a majority because of the contract for America (and because Clinton's activities were hated), and the contract did nothing because the GOP was too gutless to carry it through as promised. Yes, the newly elected con-gressmen were either corrupted, frustrated, or targeted. Gingrich made a big promise and he caved in to a very unpopular president. I knew a lot of his supporters in GA and they were in awe and then he caved and betrayed them just as the GOP has done since 1860.
            After his definition of "is", why would I believe anything Clinton claimed? ;^)
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
              Wiy would you believe any polltican. So let's do the scenario test.

              Ladies and Gentle mean we interrupt with this breaking news. The President has suffered a heart attack and the flags are being lowered to half staff.

              The new President former Vice President ____ is even now being sworn in by Chief Justice whoever."


              Based on real life and that scenario what name do you want to see on election day in the VP slot?

              Weld
              Gingrich
              What's her name?


              Really I'm so embarrased. I cannot remember that name Elizabeth something or another?

              Borden? Naah she was into axes
              Warren? Naah that was a Judge
              Dole? Nope Pineapple heiress.

              Think how often we allow some one like Biden, Quayles, Johnson, the greek named guy from maryland, to sit in that all too important slot and pretend nothing will ever happen. Kennedy, Reagan, Ford, is the job really to assassination proof the sitting President with their gross, draconian unacceptabilty. Their inability to even get on a primary ballot by themselves. Let's see Pelosi in number three spot elected by a handfull of grape growers turned pot farmers.

              You know...Parts of this system really need changing.

              Like them or not of those mentioned for the VP slot who would let you sleep well at night knowing their finger was on the nuclear button in charge of a massively failed economy or ending the endless wars?
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    • Posted by $ Sgtill 7 years, 8 months ago
      By no means are Trump and Gingrich any where close to perfect, but the big question is are you willing to go third party and give everything to Hillary and the democrats?
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
        Has nothing to do with the question. The actual choices at present are Weld for sure, Gingrich maybe and Warren maybe. I think that's whats her names name. It's really an important choice for a Trump fan. At this point i doubt Weld is a worry.

        Choose one and maybe say if that VP choice made you happier or unhappier with the presumption results in the top spot.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 8 months ago
        Most polls show Gary Johnson taking more votes from Hillary than from Trump. And even aside from that, are you willing to perpetually support a failed two-party system just because the Republican is usually a little less bad than the Democrat? That's certainly not a recipe for liberty.
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        • Posted by $ Sgtill 7 years, 8 months ago
          LOL, I don't believe your most polls. An independent hasn't even come close during my life time.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 8 months ago
            During my lifetime the "major" parties have never been as fractured as they are now. But by all means, vote Republican no matter how many times they sell you down the river. I'm sure they'll appreciate your support as they continue to fund Obamacare and play "bipartisan" games with the Democrats.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 8 months ago
    Gingrich has many attributes for V.P. He knows his stuff chapter and verse. I doubt if there's any Democrat who could trip him up without getting trapped himself. Also, he's the best kind of advisor. Based on what I've seen so far, he'll advise without trying to change Trump's persona. He is also creative. The only thing against him in today's voter's eyes is that he's not pretty. Don't shrug that off. We are dealing with a large segment of voters today who have no more knowledge of politics than what lies on the surface, which is mostly how BHO got elected.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 8 months ago
    Very white. Very male. Very DC insider. Does not address the main population Trump needs help with.
    Might keep trumpet on a leech, but that doesn't need to be the VP.
    He needs a black, hispanic or woman badly. What about Condaleza? She could take Hillary on very well, and the trumpet could stay above the fray!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      Trump on a Leech. Freudian slip or intentional it's a perfect looter desciption big point for that one.

      Most qualified Americans from that particular background are afraid. Condo probably has the guts, stamina, ehtics and values though. interesting thought. In a evenly moderated real debate she'd slaughter The Wicked Witch of the Left. She's got more brains and intellectual ability than all of Hillary's staff put together. Of course there si the Obama back lash and the regualar garden variety racist/sexist/ bigoted tools to deal with.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 8 months ago
        The language was perjured from the post. Accolades belong with our brother Carl.

        Forgetting about basic politics, I can't believe how far our duly elected black president has taken US racism! It was better before. Much better.
        He is nothing but an opportunist. An opportunist, whose entire range was offered by those that preceded him, making repubican't unelectable for a generation!
        The lost party wondering in the dessert with jesus and lizards. Time for Libertarians to take the charge, and displace the broken elitist clowns.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 7 years, 8 months ago
    In my opinion (sounds like an opening comment in AS), Trump is the only viable candidate...regardless of who he selects as V.P.

    Hillary is an absolute non-starter, for more reasons than I can count and the chances of a 3rd party winning the election are minute, considering the current climate in this country.

    If I'm wrong, about the 3rd party chances (I really hope that I am), I will gladly take my beating AFTER the elections.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 8 months ago
    Alabama dino prefers Jeff Sessions, who I've grown way used to voting for anyhoo.
    Sometimes I get mail from someone and some group that says, "Gimme money to petition Senator Jeff Sessions to do something good and conservative for this or that or some other reason."
    I'll be dropping the request into the trash can while thinking, "Why give you money? I already know Sessions will go ahead and do this or that without being asked."
    And Sessions always does. That's why I freaking vote for Sessions all the time.
    For that, me dino thinks Sessions deserves to be vice president. He would even make a great president the average Gulcher would be happy with way more than Trump.
    Me dino be a happy camper with Richard Shelby also a senator and a dude named Palmer for my Washington rep for Sweet Home Alabama, even though that song is wrong about the sky always being so blue.
    Heck, I came close to doing a dark sky tornado Dorothy about two days before Osama Bin Laden got his face shot dead.
    We've all seen a cow do a Dorothy in that Twister flick. Imagine a Dorothy dino! .
    Also unlike the song, I don't love my (current) governor. That divorced while in office adulterer with an appointee is a RINO tax-hiking piece of crap, who wouldn't cut any costs even after a sensible list of proposed cuts was presented to him.
    Also, the freshly replaced Alabama speaker of the house just got sentenced to four years for taking bribes.
    But that's the new normal for politics within my state. Just ask a former corrupt Alabama governor of the 90s, who is still serving a federal prison sentence.
    I could go on but I can tell you're getting bored . . .
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
    Newt is likely the best pairing for Trump. Newt is one of the few politicians to speak out and say he would undo wha Obama has done to implement UN Agenda 21, and the UN's attempt to take our private property rights away. Hillary will make it a done deal, she has already let the UN know she is in favor of Agenda 21. At least Newt has spoken pubically against it. Now, how about one of them atalking about the weather manipulations by the government to sell climate chane and set the stage for UN Agenda 21!
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    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
      Given Gingrich's history of betrayal why the hell should we believe anything the looting liar says?
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
        I know Newt is flawed, do you really know any honest politicians? My biggest fear is Hillary in the WH and Obama on the Supreme Court - I can't think of anything closer to hell. Hillary will let the UN run all over us, taking everything we have, then charging us a UN tax as well. She has no issue with crooked acts, maybe even kilinsg to accomplish them. When cops are asked if they are willing to use guns against US citizens to implement UN Agenda 21 (2030), I say anyone who is willing to speak out in public against the UN has to be heard. I know what Hillary will do, and stopping her is priority, we have to face reality, not reach for some ideal ticket which is not going to win. Leave that to the RINOs.
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        • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
          Our whole crony system is flawed, but it can be manipulated more or less by the president. hillary would be a disaster. Trump would be at worst less of a disaster, and at best actually a good thing. He has my vote for sure.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
          Voting for a statist in fear of Hillary is the same path that brought the country to the brink of dictatorship. Continuing down that path in fear and voting for evil is not an answer.
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          • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
            So then, what is the answer? Don't vote and let the useful idiots decided our fate? Vote for the known evil aka Hillary? We have had enough experience to know what she will do, and it is not in our best interest.Vote for a Libertarian, knowing we are throwing our vote away? Wait for more riots so Obama can declare Martial Law and stay put, destroying capitalism once and for all? We have only so much time to make a choice,what say you guru? What action do you call best, and not some idealism which will never happen, real action we can take.
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          • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
            So if it was Hitler himself leading the polls vs Trump behind in the polls, and Johnson with no chance of winning at all, you would still not vote for Trump? That would leave you with Hitler as president, which is not very far from Hillary.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
              Since its completely hypothetical, if you can tell me the result of Trump being elected in advance, then I can decide if he is worse than Hitler.
              Since Hitler is not running, its not relevant.
              Voting for evil gets an evil result. I won't consent to be a party to that.
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              • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
                I understand your position, but even Johnson isnt purely "good" Would there ever actually be a candidate without ANY "evil" that would run today or even in the medium term future. I would like our country to get at least better by small amounts than to get much worse in large amounts. I just cant see Trump being worse than Hillary.
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                • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
                  Trump might not be worse than Hillary, but getting "at least better by small amounts" has not happened by supporting the GOP and it won't be the case this time by supporting Trump either.
                  Libertarians have not gained the opportunity thanks to the system set up by GOP and Dems to keep non-statist, non-evil parties out of the competition. The GOP and Dems have made things worse in every election in the past 30 years. The Libertarians will do much better for free markets and individual liberty, and will give you "at least better by small amounts."
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                  • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
                    I think Trump breaking up the establishment a little will make it easier for 3rd parties to win in the next election. Sanders was railroaded this time by the democratic system, and I was disappointed he caved into the empty promises of hillary and gave up his "movement"
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                    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
                      Trump doing what you want is a dream. What we will get instead will be a nightmare. Sanders didn't have a choice; he is a Democrat who places a higher value on power than anything else.
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                      • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
                        the nightmare is hillary. trump CANT be worse than her
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                        • Posted by libertylad 7 years, 8 months ago
                          Not the point, term. If people do as they have for 30 years and vote because they are in fear of the arguably worse candidate when neither the GOP nor the Dem candidate will support individual liberty or free markets, then the result will be the same as the past 30 years: more government looting, less liberty, and manipulated markets that serve only the looters. that is what a vote for Trump will bring. If that is what you want then vote in fear for Trump.
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                          • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
                            voting for anyone other than trump will bring in hillary, and that CANT be the best solution for right NOW. I wont live long enough to see the collapse and rebirth of this country, or the election of a third party candidate like Johnson
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              • Posted by Mitch 7 years, 8 months ago
                Look, these arguments are nonsense. The only firsthand experience we have of the man is from a “reality” tv show. I keep seeing these statements that are presented as fact with fortitude that “you” know. You do not know nor do I any more than we did of any other candidate running at this time, the public life of Donald Trump has been a script for publicity. It’s a crap shoot…

                I will say that the Democrats have done an awesome job in creating end fighting, the exact prescription to get the H witch elected.

                I truly don’t know if Trump hates women, I know he loves is wife and daughters, so how could he hate women? Maybe because of the way he treated Megyn Kelly? That incident was towards an individual, not all women; She presented substantive questions to candidates but only asked these stupid gotcha questions of Trump.

                Maybe if unfair because he’s rich; really? The man is very successful, people on this board are saying he’s rich because he cheats. This is simply embarrassing…. You know moocher will mooch anyway they can, I just find it funny when the people on this board start sounding like a moocher. We don’t know the specifics of these deals or have both sides of the argument.

                Donald Trump isn’t a conservative nor an objectivist, he is himself which is more than I can say for anyone else running.

                You better wake up and vote for the lesser of the two evils in the general, feel free to vote your conscience in the primary.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
      There is no "UN Agenda 21" threat. This is an Ayn Rand forum. Please keep the UN black helicopter conspiracy theories out of it.

      The course of the culture is set by the dominant ideas adopted and implemented. One of the ideologies causing the destruction is environmentalism sacrificing people to nature. The source of its destructive ideas and power is not the UN. Newt Gingrich is one of them, already described on this same page at https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
        Any Rand believed in private property rights and capitalism. The UN has stated their desire to do away with capitalism, could not be any plainer. They have also stated that private property owned by individuals is "unsustainable", and that it has to end. If they are against what Rand told us is of value, how is that a conspiracy? Hitler also believed in environmentalism, and putting nature above people, as a means to an end. The UN has been very clear about their desire to end capitalism. Do you say go with Hillary then, what do you want?She has made clear her love of Marxism. Where is this ideal candidate that will meet all criteria and still result in the winning of an election and the saving of capitalism and property rights? We don't live in the Gulch in everyday life, we share the space with some very uneducated or easily swayed people, who will vote against their own best interests. What do you suggest we do?
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
          UN bureaucrats making extreme statements does not make them either the source of the idea or the political threat. Attributing causes as whatever you see saying something extreme is typical conspiracy theorizing. Ignoring the philosophical, historical and political ignorance of a Pragmatist like Trump is no better as a solution.
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          • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
            It is not hard to find direct quotes from UN officials and their stance on capitalism. Quotes from former heads of the UN. People like Maurice Strong who worked closely promoting their ideas for them. After 20 years of following this issue, we have accumulated quite a bit of info attributed those in the UN. Also, the NGOs which are taking training at the UN on how to sell it. I have a first hand report from a law enforcement officer who was asked if he would be willing to use guns against US citizens to enforce UN Agenda 21. The UN is no cuddly Pooh bear, it is a bunch of socialists who hate capitalism, and I don't see how you can overlook it. Where my brother lives, when property was seized by plowing up residents access to their homes when they would not sell, UN vans were on site. Have you not read of the UN lead climate conferences in Rio and this year in NYC? With or without Trump, these UN bunch want their own tax on US citizens as well. This is not conspiracy, this is their way of leveling the playing field because they feel the US citizen is too well off. The Poope working with the UN to sell false global warming is not happening? Is that a conspiracy also? How about news footage of Obama, exiting the UN, saying he would suppor tUN Agenda 21 in the US?i You are right, the UN will not decend and make it happen, but they ar training the people who will sell it to unsuspecting local mayors and agencies. The UN is the source, locals are the soldiers, unwitting as they usually are.
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            • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
              Direct quotes do not mean the evil nuts saying them are responsible for the ideas or have the power or influence to implement them. Lack of objectivity in assessing the nature of the source of "quotes" leads to conspiracy theories. Even worse is when such people ignore the real source of the bad ideas and the power to implement them. They cause only goofy distractions by hysterical anti-intellectuals helping the collectivists discredit their enemies.

              This is how the John Birch Society used to undermine freedom. They did all kinds of detailed research and misused it in conspiratorial rationalistic concoctions stringing together out of context details, thereby becoming an easy target to discredit in the name of discrediting serious advocates of freedom. The course of a culture is determined by the ideas adopted and held by those with the ability to spread and implement them, not any goofball caught saying something evil and rationalistically used to hysterically portray the random nuts as a dire threat and source of our problems.

              It is even worse than the 'evil man' theory of history disregarding the role of fundamental ideas. It doesn't even correctly identify who is causing the destruction.
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              • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
                Are you calling the socialist UN a "serious advocate of freedom" - really? Do you work for them in come capacity? Do you believe in capitalism and property rights? If you can't believe the words of those employed by the UN or working with them, when they say they want capitalism destroyed, who do you then blame? Who do you feel is the enemy of capitalism and property rights, if you believed in them?It all tracs back to the UN from what I can see, and is linked to one worlders in our own government. They want the same end, the lowering of standards of living in the USA. They have never been able to raise the standards sufficiently in other countries, so the goal is to lower ours, so we all live like third worlders. I have spooken to our city couccil memebers and county commissioners, who seem blissfully unaware that accpeing all these free planning documents and grants, contain the words "sustainable" and "population density" over and over. The Regional Planning group even links from their site to UN associated sites. Sustainable is whatever the fat cats want it to mean, and has next to nothing to do with hard science. Population density is a way to get people into urban settings with no yard or a dictated sized yard. If you doubt this is all about transforming society and controlling people, you better read some of these grants. The only thing I see you saying, sf forget the UN, all is well, Well, I have too many case studies here to believe all is well. Now, you tell me who you blame, because property is being taken. Even the UN Heritage Sites, don't end there. They take personal property for hundreds of miles to created a "buffer zone" around those sites. It just is not right, and Rand would not think it was.
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                • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
                  No one called the UN a "serious advocate of freedom". JBS was not an intellectually serious advocate of freedom but dragged down those who were with its crazy conspiracy theories. So do those hysterically pushing the "Agenda 21" conspiracy theory. Your repetition and misrepresentations show that you haven't read or understood anything I wrote.

                  The viro "sustainability" drive to make nature "sustainable" without human interference is from the US viro pressure group activists and lobbyists, and their movement representatives entrenched in education and government agencies, not black helicopters from the UN.

                  The UN Man in the Biosphere program is run by each nation, not the UN. In the US it is run by the State Dept., which delegates it to the National Park Service. It has no more power than NPS already has, yet you have nothing to say about the National Park Service and its sordid history for the last century.
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            • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
              Well said Stormi...I would of hoped that ewv would have investigated further, therefore owned the info you just gave him.
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              • Posted by ewv 7 years, 8 months ago
                I have been researching and fighting the attacks from the viros on private property for decades and know a lot about who is and isn't doing it and how, and what to do to fight it here possible. The black helicopter 'Agenda 21' hysteria has been a destructive distraction for a very long time from those who lack the objectivity to assess who and what organizations have the power and influence to in fact be responsible. The source of the damage and threat is not whoever you can find making the most extreme statements in public.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
      Just a side note: Update...it's now called: Agenda 2030...
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 8 months ago
        Actually, both exist, most people have not even researched either, but a few are becoming aware of Agenda 21. Agenda 2030 came out of their meeting this year, and laid out more of a deadline and way to get to the same result. I usually but a slash and list both, but they will change the name as soon as people become familiar with it. I started following it when high school classmate Tom DeWeese educated me on it - before it even had a number, just and intent. Back then they tried to call us conspiracy followers, but I knew Tom was right on the mark.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 8 months ago
    I don't see where Gingrich will add many new supporters to the Trump ticket. Gingrich will probably cause Trump to lose some of his crossover support from the Sanders camp and from other anti-Hillary Democrats, and Gingrich's establishment credentials will diminish Trump's "outsider" status among independents looking for someone less partisan.

    However, if Trump selects Gingrich it could provvide a much-needed boost to the poll numbers for the Johnson/Weld ticket.
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    • Posted by $ Sgtill 7 years, 8 months ago
      Buzz Buzz - Wrong! I think that there numbers are as good as it's going to get.
      I helped push a third party in the 70's, when it comes to the presidency a third party is just a spoiler. You will end up with the results that you least wanted.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 8 months ago
        I helped push a third party in the 70’s also, the Libertarian Party, and your two-party argument shows up like clockwork every four years. In every presidential election, people are told that they are “wasting their vote” if they vote for the Libertarian candidate.

        As one who has voted for every Libertarian presidential candidate since 1972, I think the exact opposite is true. By voting for my principles, my votes over the years have had far more impact than if I had allowed the two “establishment” parties to dictate my choices.

        Consider this: no matter how you have voted for President in the past, your vote has never made a difference in the outcome. Nor will it do so in the future. Even if you live in a “swing state” that could go either way, your lone vote will not spell the difference between victory and defeat for either establishment party candidate.

        So if you can’t change the election outcome, why vote at all? The answer is that by voting Libertarian, you will be adding to the vote totals of the only party that consistently supports individual freedom. And those vote totals matter – the establishment parties pay close attention when a significant number of voters break with the two-party system, and they will often modify their stands on certain issues to protect their base and prevent further defections.

        On the other hand, if you vote for the “lesser of two evils,” you are saying in effect, “I support the political status quo. I have faith in the two-party system, and I’m not interested in supporting candidates from other parties, even if they have fresh ideas that I agree with. I don’t like either of the two establishment party candidates, but I will vote for Establishment Party Candidate X because he or she is not quite as bad as Establishment Party Candidate Y.” This truly is a waste of your vote, and does nothing to advance the cause of freedom.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 8 months ago
    I think no way b/c they're too similar. I read Gingrich's book 20 years ago, and I think he has some good ideas. But his style, maybe helped by a media that doesn't like him, makes him come off as just a total jerk, "mean-spirited" commentators called him in the 90s. Trump needs someone who style is the opposite of an east coast a-hole, maybe someone like Bobby Jindal.

    I actually think Trump candidacy is doomed because a nicer VP would be a foil making his loose-cannon shtick look worse. The media will pounce on some gaff, possibly unfairly, along the lines of the Dean "scream" in 2004, and he will implode.

    I could be wrong, of course, because I never predicted he would get this far.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      That is the first move Trump has made that sets him apart from the left wing Ny liberal lamestream comrades of socialist fascism. That one move is enough to get my attention for if he ever starts standing for something besides Trump. 90% of what is wrong occured when the comrades tore apart and nullified the Contract With America. Still getting it passed was leadership we've not seen in decades. If not VP then Secretary of State or better yet Chief of Staff in the White House.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
        That was my thinking. Plus, I think Gingrich could get the congress to do the right things...most of them would never admit he is inter-lectually hands and heads above them. (inter-lectual means integrated knowledge...not compartmentalized information- intel-lectual).
        (being a distant relative of Webster...I take license to create new words) laughing
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
          Be my guest. As the chief word Nazi i have found your efforts to always make sense and be easily understood. Not to mention leaving one in a good frame of mind. A friend of mind did that with creative and action or cre-action. Made all her employees write down what it meant to them and how to implement it as a goal. They are all artistic technicals in producing documentaries arouond the world. interlectually speaking that team is not comeapartmentalized. Or as Great Uncle Olaf used to say, 'I wouldn't be at all surrounded to rememorize that again.'
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
            That's funny. You must be descendant from at least around the same part of the world as I...The majority of my descendantry is from Sweden. I had an uncle Olaf and an uncle Sven
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
              That was the Great Grandmother the rest were honest Norwegians by one line of descent or another. UFTA!

              What was that movie with the Chicken Dance and Uncle Olaf ahhh. He Said She Said.
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              • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
                Oh...so our ancestors rolled big boulders down the hill at each other...are you a square head or a block head...laughing while dunking cookies in my coffee...coffee madoka...(best spelling I could find)

                That f 'n chicken dance...hahahahah
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                  The Swedes rolled boulders. The Norskes waited for the gap between the hills to be filled and the Swedes to be tired out. Then walked across the bridge and that's how blonde hair and blue eyes got to Sweden.
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                  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
                    Ahh...but the "Johnson" was ours! hahahah
                    My Dad was a "toe head" from birth...at birth so was I but it darkened through the years. (englishman in the wood pile {Taft];-actually one of the black ignoble's from Venice)-(son married the daughter of Webster)
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                      A swede borrowed a chain saw from two norwegian fire wood cutters. He had noticed they racked out two cords a day. Next day he staggers in and says, I worked my ass off and could only do half a cord cutting with this thing. Norske bends over sets the switches and fires it up.

                      "What's that sound? What's that sound?"

                      Ufta
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  • Posted by terrycan 7 years, 8 months ago
    Of the 17 Republican candidates that started the primary Trump was my last choice.
    The primary is over Trump won and I will vote for him.
    Newt will make a great VP.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 7 years, 8 months ago
    I do not see any viable candidate to win against Hillary, except Trump, and Hillary MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO WIN!

    Scary as this sounds I would even vote for Jessi Jackson over Hillary, and God knows that would be a HORROR STORY.

    I wish that there were someone who could win other than Trump but there isn't so I will vote Trump to prevent Hillary.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      That's cold. Say it isn't so Joe! Say it isn't so!!

      With Gingrich as VP? Changes the whole picture. Objectively speaking and considering Trumps weight problem....but then even Hillary looks like and reportedly is a candidate for death warmed over. That VP choice is becoming very important especially with Pellosillyni waiting in the wings.
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  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 8 months ago
    What would happen if MITT accepted the VP slot with Trump ??! Would that unify the GOP ? ( not that Mitt would accept or that Trump would offer)
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
      Another left winger? Sad thing is he probably will pick another one like that. That would cost him any chance of non leftist votes and when you count the 46% who said forget it there's not much left to choose. What am I saying Left is never much left to choose. Ahem.. There's not much remaining except Sanders Kids?
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      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 8 months ago
        Really ? Gee, I am not so sure. The "establishment" Republicans favor him. ( And I think if he had been a better candidate and had become our current president instead of O's seconf term) I think he would have been one of our best, as he would have been the right guy at the right time. But we'll never know. I've also heard Robert Gates and Gen. Flynn mentioned but I doubt they'd do it. If Gates agreed Hillary would lose.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
          Who are they?
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          • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 8 months ago
            Gates and Flynn.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
              shrug never heard of them
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              • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 8 months ago
                You're kidding, right ??? You've never heard of Robert Gates, who was head of the CIA under Bush 41, Sec Def under Bush 43, agreed to carry on as Sec Def under Obama, former president of Tex A&M, etc, etc. Flynn is a 3-star general who was director of DIA.
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                  Objectivist Site. We give resources and a bit of information. Could have been Bill's brother for all we knew. But as two last names? Meaningless. As Obama hold overs. Unacceptable. Just REMFs.
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                  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 8 months ago
                    Well, you're contradicting yourself by using the acronym "REMF" which I have no idea what it means. As for using last names of people who have been widely covered in the news, you're right, I assumed everyone would know who was being referred to.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                      It means Rear Echelon Mother Feather and those types are not well known to honest combat soldiers. HOWEVER when I read today he was a possible VEEP candidate for Trump and then his statement was I'm a pro life Democrat that proved my point. I have nothing for or against the abortion stane except for after the fetus turns viable BUT when he said DEMOCRAT that was it. WE need no more of those left wing comrades of the Plato to Marx to Soros philosophy we already ahve three choices bu then maybe he would attract the more rabid of the safe spotters looking for a home after Sanders.

                      Thanks but not thanks; Like Johnson and Weld he hung himself by his own tongue.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                http://hotair.com/archives/2016/04/02...

                Major unknowns, if these are the two, little to find on them except admit to be naive and allowing themselves to be duped by Obama.

                Not much of a resume for more responsibile position.

                Unless it's two others. Given the sparcity of responses on Google I reckon that's a dead end
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                  These two are typical Pentagon REMFs

                  The article is interested. Military has been cut in half and a lot of people dumped on the job market for which many of them get top hiring priority shoving aside others who've been without jobs for a good deal of time.

                  I guess Obeyme figures stirring the pot of unemployment equals employment and i wonder if those near half a million were counted in the unemployment roles at all.

                  Then too were these two individuals Obama appointees? That means they were chosen for naivete, pliability and yesmanship. What are they doing now? Certainly not hurting for income.
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
                    This whole situation is going to call for a huge monetary expenditure and major build uip one more time considering the mess left behind by Mr. I Love ISIS and any other convenient crisis I can find.

                    Just in time to be part of the next cycle of economic repression.

                    Now tell me again why everyone should have the vote. Mooching illiterates shouldn't have citizenship to begin with.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 8 months ago
    Newt should be president.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
      Barf!
      Guess you forgot how he caved in to the Demoncrats and Clinton repeatedly and betrayed the promises made to his supporters.
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      • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 8 months ago
        Guess you forgot his "Contract" that was, mostly, the outline of changes that should be made.... and though not totally successful (thanks to RINOS and dilution of the principles in some measures and a few Clinton vetoes), set a tone for Congress. And it is pretty much acknowledged that, even though introduced as a campaign ploy, turned Congress GOP for the first time in 40 years......... And, he knows more about how the process works than Trump......
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago
        Your going to have to detail that a little better I really don't remember it quite that way. I remembered him geting steam rollered and avalanched with a lot of meaningless garbage and I remember the left of all groups that should know better to bring up sex or something like that as an issue . oh yes infidelity was it? Now that shows how really stupid the left is when you look at Hillary and Bubba just for starters and who just got indicted in Florida???? People ought not to bring up subjects that make us remember even more of their serious faults.

        So yeah go ahead and make your case. After if it was true they were only the right wing of the left anyway. No big deal.
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