I am sure it is time to ban political parties

Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 8 months ago to Government
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I have come to the conclusion that political parties are the problem. Not to have politics, but the parties and affiliations themselves would remove a lot of the crap we are seeing. I would suggest no parties, if you want to run for Senate, you must have 5 years residency in that state (to prevent migrant senators), same for House. Elections are government funded ( I know, I know but wait..) 50,000 for House, 50,000 for Senate, paid for from a fund established by selling off current party assets (both of them and all the rest of them as well) and the money put in a 401K (which , if it's good enough to fund military retirements, it is good enough to fund political races). Now, I am not proposing we junk the whole party idea, and the subsequent screaming about rights, freedom to do what they want etc. You can still have a philosophy, even a group, you just have no "Dumbocrap" or Republicrat, as such running. The top 2 vote getters in a Senate race are in, the top "X" in the house race get in (unless we choose to break it up by population, but then that starts to allow for groups to form again). Lobbying in banned, no need to feed the political pigs, they all get the same salary as the median income of all the governors of the 50 states. It seems like this would alleviate an awful lot of the current crap we see: Bought politicians, rigged elections, slanted news, outright lies, laws ignored, unequal treatment across the board, you name it. It also heads us back to the land of the individual, and where people who want to represent me in the seat of government are actually doing that, and not the money they had to grub to get there. I would say this would be much more of an equitable system and eliminate a huge subclass of people wanting to mooch for a living.


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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is a perfect point, and one that needs continual reinforcement. Everyone will cry about their rights, and never say or do a thing about responsibility. As Heinlein said "What right does a drowning man have to live?" There is always an equal amount of rights and responsibilities and in equal proportions.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They may not be evil in that sense, although I cannot rule that out. However, they are self centered, focused on their agenda, which makes government respond to a small focused issue in their favor, which by default will not be good for the people. Your point about "take the government ofut of the economy" is most telling, in that the government is NOT supposed to be in the economy. It is constitutionally forbidden. Yet they are, in direct violation of it. THat s the thrust of a lot of constitutional amendments, to get around the cheating and manipulation started by FDR, and his cowed Supreme Court. Since then, the Executive has run roughshod over both branches of government, so there are no checks and balances functional. Thus, we have unrestrained government, which when mixed with huge money, special interests, makes all of us slaves to their specific wants. In fact, I would say now, there is a direct connection between the power of parties and the rise of the Executive.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not a bad goal it's how to get there.We had a law for a while in one Oregon country that for bade any new expenditure or purchase of $10,000 or over without a direct vote of the people. Of course we also has a five percent property tax limitation trying to curb the politicians. In one town they put a providion in the cable TV contract no rate increases over 3% per annum without approval of the town council. Guess how many of those were honored?

    In one case the county wanted those big sliding drawers for plat maps. That was over $10,000.00. so they put it on the ballot. We found down at Beale AFB some brand new never been used one's at the Base Property Book Disposal Office. For a few hundred each and aftere military other government entities were next in line. The cost was one employee with a truck to drive the 400 miles or so down and back and probably one night in a motel. Guess what didn't win on the ballot. Those ideas work IF the citizens remember their follow on resonsibilities. That' s the usual failure point and cause. Every right has a responsibility or it really isn't a valid right ....is it? Not in real life.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 7 months ago
    Maybe make being a Republican or Democrat a Capital offense :-D
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  • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 7 months ago
    You're assuming that those who are "buying" the politicians are evil through and through. The real solution is to take government out of the economy. A politician can't "save" the economy. Everyone knows that's a lie. The only roles that the federal government legitimately has in managing the economy is adjudicating damages resulting from torts, running a postal service and building and maintaining roads. They should not be allowed to subsidize, bail out or otherwise interfere in the economy. They know nothing about it, and their meddling will only make things worse, as we obviously can see. Then, parties become irrelevant. If they can't sling pork, then you can have as many parties as you want. As for a politician's pay, it shouldn't be more than the median income of the country; knowing that their decisions will affect that number, there will be an incentive to leave things alone. It will also ensure that a politician will have enough resources of his or her own to not need a big salary, and will eliminate the spectacle of politicians entering dirt poor and leaving rolling in the dough.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is a bitter fight, when the country has slid for the last 80 years or so into a totally illegitimate form which has no relation to the one that was constituted, and 80 per cent or so of the sheeple in it have not got the knowledge to even know they are in it.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed, you raise a good point. In Oregon I cannot participate in any Primary as an Independent voter, yet they turn around and make/change their rules to both get the Beast her due, and neuter Trump. Another reason to eliminate them from any participation in the election process. Everything they get near gets F@#ed up. I am even seeing enough evidence now to believe the Orlando club thing was a setup from the get go to push the gun control thing and get our weapons. After seeing the video where they carry a guy past, then stop and stand him up (with his tourniqet leg working fine) and the number of crisis actors identified, it seems they will lie and manipulate anything anywhere for their hidden agenda.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Pretend to fight to the bitter end but then a script is a script when the out come is the same political philosophy of government over citizens sitting in the State Capitol, on the County Commision or in the Congress. Which is something the single party system itself will use to get rid of elections completely.step by step.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Buit then that is the legal function of the primary. If there are ten parties each is responsbile for choosing their own candidate without interference which is why some jurisdictions to not allow independents to comment on party votes. Just as they may use convention, caucus or direct vote. I do object to their being on the public ballots free of charge. Unless all are at least listed with the notation caucus or convention. BUT if a party had a rule in effect and disregarded it's own rule as both the Democrats and Republicans do in their annual charade then the rah rah convention is, as this year, really just a big week long campagin speech and serves no useful purpose other than a month of sickening mud slinging. and it's all BS anyway.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Term, looking at the Texas Plan, The Liberty Amendments and the Convention of States project, shows that the movement is there to try such a thing, but the resistance will be high. Your idea is one that is incorporated, in many ways, with some of the amendments being talked about.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have checked them out. I have also posted all 3 to my FB page, as each is slightly different, but interconnected. I like Greg Abbots Texas Plan, well done document, full of historical context and takes you through the chains of events that led us to the mess we are in today. I also signed up with the Convention of States Project and tossed them a contribution, although I am not sure it has gotten going well, it seems to have been just poking along, although the last year, and especially the last week, should convince anyone with 2 brain cells that we are in deep shit here. My real concern with all of this is that it still relies on the Party sytem to "allow" a convention. In Oregon, I do not see it happening, and in several other Leftist states either, so I do not know if even the tool is around. The Constitution did not envisage a country where the elite had taken control with such a death grip. I also think the 2 and the same parties will fight this to the bitter end.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Quite the summary, and I can see that it is fairly accurate. Thanks for the effort to explain. I would say that your last part " Stop Enabling, Take Control, Make Change" is excatly what is needed and is, in essence what I am saying. My idea of it, without a complete teardown/rebuild, would be the abolishment of the politcal parties as controllers by making the election process no political. BY non political I mean you see a name and that is it on a ballot. That enables the voter to HAVE to take control, as the mindless "Check the "D" boxes" method of voting is no longer there, you actually have to know what the person is you are voting for. That would enable change because we would have a much more responsive, representative system. It could be implemented within the current framework, just a few law and procedural changes to make it happen. Then, once that was in place could come a 2nd step of actually looking at they current system, and with people in place who, though maybe loyal to a particular party, are not implicitly owned by it, could be executed so as to remove some of the other onerous limits on our freedom, and proceed to build a system that is more protective of the individual, vice the group. I see the real problem right now as being the 2 party system that is really one party, just different benefactors. As long as the system exists, there will be legal, political, and social roadblocks put in to stop any changes from ever happening that do not benefit, or be manipulated by them. As long as they can do that, we cannot overcome them. I do not see how ignoring them will work, the Jews tried that in Germany and ended up in camps, and I see us going there in the near future.
    Our original Founding Fathers made an attempt at a free society, but I suspect their free society was one where they were the arbiters of the Freedom. Everything I have seen seems to show they talked a good game, but almost from the outset, the power brokers and money madness crept in, even as early as 1810, with the War of 1812 brewing. After the War of 1812, all ets were off, as the Federal Government started feeling it's oats, and then the Civil War cemented the power of the central government. The biggest failure I see in our system starts almost at the begining with the Party system almost being designed iinto it. No one could do anything wothout having a large group behind them, and communications were such that no individual had the tools to make a non party system work. I see that has changed. Today you could run a campaign almost by yourself, with the Internet and email, and the ability to get a group together via many means. The fact the majority have no longer cares to have to work at looking at their representatives, having been programmed into the Party system, means all power has been turned over from the people to the Party, and so now we have mindless voting, and powerful Party machines. I would seek to break the machines and make people have to work for their Freedom.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I find it much easier to consider them the same party serving the same masters. What we have are a juxtaposition situation. Allow me to dip into history.

    First think of the divine right of kings and emperors with complete power. Far beyond the time their families took control with battlefield prowess. The Aristocracy. They were blessed by various sources including philosophical. Plato's line of reasoning laid it out completely in it's present form. Like every one that followed they had their escape hatch having been annointed as 'special' by some special combination of mysticism or Gods or a God. Plato of course included the philosophers as the only one's capable of seeing the truth. The Aristocracy.

    This group changed as they were forced to include others wanting a larger slice of the pie. Loyal henchmen, the Barons Magna Carta and one of the most reviled groups the money lenders in todays terms the bankers. At the top of the heap each of these groups formed the roots of todays Statists and Corporatists. Not all just the creme de la creme. The Chosen Ones

    Next step was machinery and industrial revolution. Who had the money to field the transportations systems world wide and the production of goods at home. and who had the power. Kings, Barons, Bankers. And at the top the same people in control.

    Gradually things changed but did they? No. Same aristocracy feudalists now neo feudalists.

    the control systems following the lead of the enlightenment philosphers still folowed the Plato Plan but now something called education crept out ot the churches and into the mainstream. Reading, books, mathematics, science all of it
    And up jumped a different form of philosophy fathered by Aristotle individual reason and thinking everyone part of the control group. That might have been a step too far considering but a least most given some education and some reasonable chance of advancement.

    First the 1700's saw some new ideas take shape and take over part of the western hemisphere. Man Can Govern himself was just a part of it. 1777 to 1789 saw the largest offering of these new ideas. Anethma to the Aristocracy. By the early 1800's a different idea had evolved. Government of the people WITH the Plato control group in charge. Finally another form of citizen government coalesced into Socialism. One side of the ocean followed Aristotle to a point. The other side Plato. But the Aristocracy now industrial barons and inteernatinal bankers joining royalty was still busy behind the scenes. Enter Marx, Engels, and a few others and the 1900's arrived. The century of the great socialist wars. One group crossed the Atlantic at the behest of the neo- aristocrats who had taken over from the independent minded freedom loving early pioneers and settlers. Another version ended up becoming international socialists. A third the National Socialists split off and ins ome corners pure aristocracy prepared to gasp it's last.
    internationalists demanded government control of everything including the shirt on your back and all your waking and sleeping hours for the greater good. The nationalists let the industrialists keep what they had build but with a very tight chain known as fascism. Across the pond Wilson through FD Roosevelt had to take a different tack. democratic socialism .

    they all had the same things in common and this is where they solved their problem which is your current dilemma.

    The division was in three parts. Our old friends the diveine royalty rights group became the government with in most cases the military or Statists. the Bankers became Corporatists and those most close to the citzens Labor Leaers. Different mixtures to be sure but all the same underneath. Identifying a need for an adversary system the party system was further developed . One party possibly two in the European version two or more in the western hemisiphere system. But above and behind them ever the new neo feudalistic aristocracy paid for and played puppet master. The Establishment is what we call it today. In the back rooms they were not Democrat and Republican or Populists or Whigs or Tories. They were of one accord. Take control and keep control using the party system to accomplish that and a general slow movement in the direction of Goveernment Over Citizens with complete control by any and all means. Our version easily mixed elements of the three legs of socialism and world wide the a system of left right politics was invented Except the terms and definitions were inverted, subverted and convoluted beyond any hope of being of any use.

    Fast forward to the 20th century the early 1900's the tactic of incrementalism had taken over as war after war was fought behind the current of crisis aftrer crisis and war after war.

    the rest is easy to figure out one side reclaim the truth and to hell with the definitions of others.

    One side is government over people with complete control. The other side i people over government as the true center of power and rights. Extremists in their proper places were Communists and Nazis interenational and national socialist to the far left. To the other side lay anti government groups, anarchists and other forms of leave me aloners. in the center lay the sacred ground which was not center of those heading in directions opposed to independence and freedom.

    The Real Center of a Constitutional Republic is the Constitution. Containing everything needed to grow and make changes as needed - legally.

    A false center has been propagandized into being... The center of the left. That's all it is nothing more. And guess what the different parties all live under that tent IF they support goverenment control of people which they do. Inthe center the Consitutionalists and by definition the far right has no center they are the 'no government' believers.

    Do not mix this up with the system in play in the 1700's That system was not left and right but vertical God, King, Nobles, Country Peasantrs. top to bottom. Their divine right meant one thing outs is different. To use a handy definition of a the same word one can examine and divine (just like finding water with a forked stick) the center is citizens who back when selected in a very small d democratic manner to prefer a large C and R Constitutionjal 'Reublic. Better to not give a fig about what the left thinks or says it will be different to morrow and therefore is meaningless. Watch and listed to wha tthey say and really do. Nothing hard about figuring them out. They want your life. frp, birth to death and redfining is a major tool to accomplish just that.

    "Both parties want to hurt you?" Try the two parts of the Government Party working for a neo feudalistic neo aristocratic establishment wants to hurt you but they are not two parties. Just two groups wwith differet roles to play. And that is al lthere is to figuring them out.

    Now you can go and think about what to do. Five choices and three are left wing socalist to different degrees. but it's one of the three plus the henchmen in Congress and the commercial world that want watching as well. Hard to do? DAMN RIGHT. When it was easy there was no need except fo rone absolute. For every right there is a resonsibility.

    And the only way to reclaim that is in three steps.

    Stop Enabling
    Take Control
    Make Change

    To find a new way to accomplsih that one must turn their back on and repudiate that which you abhor. Hard to do when your wasting time on what ugliness the witches of the left have done this time. There isn't anything you can do to change them exept ignore them. unless you are a plastic surgeon , cosmetologist, and psychiatrist wrapped into tone.

    Better to just turn your back on them and ignroe them.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or, leave as is but have a constitutional amendment which in alternating 10 year periods congress must, starting in the first period, rid the government of one bureau per year and repeal one law each month. In the next period, congress could pass legislation which dealt with separate issues, without tacking, in emergency situations. All other legislation would deal with repairing unjust laws. Then back to the repealing of laws and bureau type government. Etc. Perhaps in ten such periods the members of congress might get some integrity and honesty from actually seeing what they had wrought and even see that they might be a bit overpaid. The president could go back to being the Commander in Chief and to all a good night, I need some sleep.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Interesting, but my fear is based on letting the greedy little grubbers anywhere near my country. I have come to the dreadful conclusion that no political party survives intact long enough to ever serve the people, they just become a giant lobbyist organization. A lot of them start with laudable goals, but seem to morph into a form of "my way or the highway". If they do not get what they want then they just steal it.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I will, thanks. I would say right away, I do not think parties should have any say in any election, that is the problem we have now. Look at Chicago and Ohio, the Democraps run the local operations and, mysteriously, seem to win all the ime. There are videos from last election where a guy tried to vote Republican and the machine kept changing his vote right in front, and after trying 5 times, he gave up and walked out. You cannot allow the greedy little bastards near our election system. In fact, now that you mentioned it, I would want to have the election system set up by a non profit, non affiliated group with required transparency records.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, Michael, I am trying to address the current issue where we have gridlock due to both parties wanting to please their masters, not the people. Therfor, all it is is one long drama of trying to blame the other, and sell their crap as the answer, and lie out their collective asses to get it. In the end, we have the bureaucracy making the decisions, hence the Lois Lerner, Holder, IRS commissioner crap. Gridlock was not a bad thing in the Clinto era, because when both parties want to hurt you, any time we get them to where they can donothing, is a bonus. BUt we have now moved to where Gridlock is not a defence, they just go around it and implement their agenda through EO, rules, and other illegal means. So, I am suggesting we take the party crap out, and start making the politicians responsible to the people, and not the parties, as the parties do not give a crap about their members.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I was thinking past your point which is a worthy one. I agree something needs to be done.
    America first. Not party first. Or not selfish little cushy fiefdom within the party first.
    nick, me dino says you did good.
    +1 both above and in the title section.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I know what you say. My point was an attempt to change the character and pool of candidates, and how they are selected. When the political machines are disabled, we get a much improved chance of getting individuals who will think as individuals and not mindless robots who bow to the Party.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One issue: Constitutional Amendments are cumbersome at best to accomplish, and the SCOTUS has already shown a complete disregard for what it says,as if they too, have succumbed to the power blocs and greed. So they would just say "No, that doesn't apply to this". When you have no functional parts of government left, it needs to be scrapped and rebuilt like any broken device.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are right.
    But from a purely practical standpoint, good luck with that.Things would have to be done by putting like-minded peope in place until there are enough to make some moves. However, if Clinton is elected, forget everything, and with Trump you got to just cross your fingers.
    Unless, of course, you're thinking of the use of force -- also not possible at this stage.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How many milliseconds would elapse before they were replaced by their friends and colleagues? I think the only way to remove them and their like-minded associates from positions of power is to strip those positions of their power.
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