Obama revises Oath of Citizenship

Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago to News
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If you aren't willing to defend what you've fought to obtain, did you really earn it?


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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I have not asked for the government to provide "mutual defense""

    The Founders did. See the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States thus: "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." (emphasis mine)

    As a citizen of this nation, you take upon yourself all the perks and also all the obligations of citizenship within it - whether by birth or naturalization. If you do not want to avail yourself of these opportunities by taking upon yourself the requirements you are free to renounce your citizenship or seek to amend the terms mutually. But you have no authority to impose on the remainder of the citizenry the obligations of your citizenship while claiming the privileges. That is looting - whether it be in terms of labor or money.

    What we should feel grateful for is that we do have a portion of our citizenry who are willing to step up in defense of us all. I honor and support our brave men and women serving in the Armed Forces of the United States. What we should not take for granted, however, is that while these have stepped up to act on our behalves that this in any way takes away our obligations in this regard to act if called upon.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not according to the slave masters. hey I'm on your side. But it's like being drafted involuntarily then told you are required to involuntarily sign a voluntary oath of alliegence. The argument will be you registered to vote, you paid taxes, you did this and you did that you regtistered for the draft any number of little traps. That is accepting citizenship and it means the whole ball of wax, as is wihout exception - even thought we're going to change the rules while you aren't looking.

    It's wrong but there it is. Reality.

    On the other hand while you could have got away without registering and voting some of the other traps are or were almost completely unavoidable. But they don't to be accepted. And less abusive slave master how I would catagorize voting for a slave master.. Three answers - two wrong one right.

    Hows hurricane season shaping up over there?
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    Posted by $ dballing 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's not "accepting the whole ball of wax". Trying to choose a less abusive slave-master isn't accepting being a slave.

    Try again.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did you ever vote or register to vote? if so you accepted it the whole ball of wax without exception. Not that I much like it myself but the Jan Baez defense didn't work so I think that route is blocked.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Like it or not, a government of sorts exists any time two agent parties interact"

    Not in any way. A government by definition has some level of authority over the citizenry, and two random people interacting do not, necessarily, have one of them in a position of authority over the other.

    I have not asked for the government to provide "mutual defense" and so therefore cannot be held liable for it any more than if I started marching soldiers on your property line to "defend you" and then sent you an invoice for services rendered. Highways should be sold and privatized and paid for via tolls, rather than theft. Public services I am happy to pay for the services I ask for and/or partake of, but nothing else.

    It is not "looting" to insist that the person who is most capable of deciding how my money is spent is me and not a distant government bureaucrat. It is not "looting" to insist that what is mine is mine, and nobody has a right to take it from me by force.

    The "looters" are the ones who think they have greater authority over the money in my wallet than I do.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually i didn't directly answer your question. It is your misuse of the words inalienable and unalienable. Actually...the mis use is not unclear and the intent is very clear.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Two things I take from your comment: The first being that you identify yourself as an anarchist. The second that you don't believe there exists a legitimate purpose for government in the first place.

    What I conclude is that you see yourself as an anarchist along the lines of philosophers such as Jean-Paul Sartyr - who asserted that they and they alone could ascertain morality and that said morality was an individual decision. Whether or not you believe such is up to you, but their philosophical assertions break down as soon as you introduce interactions with a second agent party. Like it or not, a government of sorts exists any time two agent parties interact - the question is the need for and interdiction of an agreed-upon (read authoritative) third party.

    What you seem to assert is that nothing a government can do has the moral authority granted to it by you for being a part of it because you take issue with certain portions of it. While I understand your position, I can not agree with it for the simple expedient that you currently avail yourself of the portions which are acceptable - such as mutual defense, trade, highways, public services, etc. What I see in the example cited is precisely the same thing you seem to want to claim: that because you don't agree with certain parts that somehow you can ignore the demands made of you which entitle you to certain benefits even while taking advantage of those benefits. That is the case of the looter mindset as identified in the article: the notion that somehow I can pick and choose which parts I want to give even though I demand full privileges for the things I get. That to me is not a value-for-value mindset.
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  • Posted by $ dballing 7 years, 10 months ago
    That is not in any way the "anarchist's approach". The anarchist doesn't believe that actions lack repercussions, they simply don't believe that the State has any legitimate moral authority to demand subservience and obedience from anyone.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I accept that the State in this case (the United States) was formed by free will and choice - not coercion. I see nothing that leads me to believe that there is any power coercing one to remain with this State. See Edward Snowden.

    "I contend that we have no obligation to move elsewhere, but instead have a greater obligation to make that change here"

    I agree that we should be doing all we can to preserve or revert back to the nation of the Founders. I do not pretend to think that those in power have attempted to manipulate us away from freedom. That was never my premise.

    "The people of America are not now, nor have they ever been, "free"."

    Then you and I see history very differently. You seem to take the anarchist's approach: that "freedom" is the ability to do whatever one wishes without thought for repercussion. That is not freedom. True freedom however understands the reality of cause and effect and affects decision-making accordingly.
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    • dballing replied 7 years, 10 months ago
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A Natural right is unalienable and cannot under any circumstances be changed. Your right to breathe for example in it's most simplistic form.

    Rights that can be changed by consent of the governed are inalienable. I willl give up my rights to x number of years and agree to perform military or other public service in exchange for...'. Once the social contract is put in place anyone wishing to join who is off the appropriate target age range must of course accede those same rights. If not they don't join the social contract.

    For that reason those who went to Canada had simply not consented to be part of the social contract. No big deal. But to rejoin or join anew or again they were on a par with any other immigrant. That is a right of choice offered at age 18 if it is offered freely . Under our system it is not offered freely but under coercion of fine or jail. Therefore invalid.

    The false part is 'forgiving' the choice made and allowing someone to 'return' without accepting the still in existence social contract. Which cheapens and makes that contract even more of a lie and a falsehood. It has no reason to exist, caused problems not needed, and serves only to provide cannon fodder or security forces for those not deserving of such protection.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 7 years, 10 months ago
    What part of "inalienable rights" in unclear? It was not by force of arms that we obtained rights. Force of arms is at times needed to protect against others foreign and domestic acting against our rights by initiation of force. When and whether to take up arms oneself is a profoundly individual choice. It would be an abrogation of inalienable rights to claim that others, even with a label of "government", override your rights and force you to become a soldier purportedly fighting for the very rights just taken away from you.

    Any automatic draft or military or other mandatory service is profoundly against inalienable rights and thus profoundly anti-American.

    Inalienable does not require "earning". It is inherent to the type of being you are.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Right To Be Left Alone sounds real good until you unravel the ACLU's twisted definition. Here's their opinion and following that their action.


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    Your Right to Privacy

    Getting an education isn't just about books and grades - we're also learning how to participate fully in the life of this nation. (Because the future's up to us!)

    But in order to really participate, we need to know our rights - otherwise we may lose them. The highest law in our land is the U.S. Constitution, which has some amendments, known as the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights guarantees that the government can never deprive people in the U.S. of certain fundamental rights including the right to freedom of religion and to free speech and the due process of law. Many federal and state laws give us additional rights, too.

    The Bill of Rights applies to young people as well as adults. And what I'm going to do right here is tell you about THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY.


    WHAT IS THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY?



    The right to privacy is not mentioned in the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has said that several of the amendments create this right. One of the amendments is the Fourth Amendment, which stops the police and other government agents from searching us or our property without "probable cause" to believe that we have committed a crime. Other amendments protect our freedom to make certain decisions about our bodies and our private lives without interference from the government - which includes the public schools.
    WHAT ARE MY RIGHTS CONCERNING THE POLICE?

    You've all heard cops on TV or in the movies say, "you have the right to remain silent..." Well, that's exactly what you should do if the police ask you questions. Remember anything you say can be used against you.

    Just give the police your name and address and say you want to speak to your parents and a lawyer. As soon as you do that, the police must stop questioning you.

    The police aren't allowed to search you unless they have a warrant signed by a judge or unless they are arresting you. However, if they believe that you have a weapon, they can frisk you, and if they feel a weapon, they can then search you. If the cops ask to search you or your car, don't resist the search, but let them know that you don't consent to it.
    DO I HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY WHEN I'M IN SCHOOL?

    Yes and no. Since public schools are run by the government, they must obey the Constitution. However, you do have fewer privacy rights in school than outside of school. Some of the so-called solutions to problems like drugs and violence - such as searching us or planting undercover cops in the hallways to spy on us - can abuse students' rights. It's like, hey guys, this is school, not prison!
    WHAT SHOULD I DO IF A TEACHER WANTS TO QUESTION OR SEARCH ME?

    You have the right to remain silent if you're questioned by a school official. Usually there is no problem with answering a few questions to clear something up. But if you think that a teacher suspects you of having committed a crime, don't explain, don't lie and don't confess, because anything you say could be used against you. Ask to see your parents or a lawyer.

    The Supreme Court ruled in 1985 in New Jersey v. T.L.O. that school officials, unlike police, may search students without a warrant when they have "reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated... either the law or rules of the school." But school officials may not search you unless they have a good reason to believe that you in particular -- not just "someone" -- broke a law or a school rule. So, if a teacher thinks she saw you selling drugs to another student, she can ask you to empty your pockets and can search your backpack. But just because they think some students have drugs doesn't give them the authority to search all students.

    And no matter what, the search must be conducted in a "reasonable" way, based on your age and what they're looking for. Strip searching is illegal in many states, and where it is allowed, there has to be a solid reason to suspect a particular student of having committed a really serious crime.

    In some states, courts have ruled that a student's locker is school property, so the school can search it. But in other states, school officials must have "reasonable suspicion" that you are hiding something illegal before they can search your locker. Your local ACLU can fill you in on your state laws. But here's a word to the wise: don't keep anything in your locker that you wouldn't want other people to see.
    WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH DRUG TESTS OR ALCOHOL TESTS?

    A drug or alcohol test is a search, but whether the officials in your school have to have "reasonable suspicion" that you're a user before they can make you take a test depends on what state you live in.

    A Supreme Court decision in 1995 in a case called Vernonia v. Acton said that student athletes can be tested for drugs because athletic programs are voluntary, and student athletes are role models. Students all over the country are protesting random testing programs, where officials test a few individuals or force a whole class to be tested just because they suspect that "someone" is doing drugs. Check with your local ACLU to know what the deal is in your state.
    WHAT ABOUT METAL DETECTORS?

    They're allowed in many states because the courts have ruled that a metal detector is less of an invasion of privacy than frisks or other kinds of searches. Nevertheless, some states have guidelines to protect students' rights. California, for example, allows metal detectors in its schools, but it says they can't be used selectively just on certain students - that's discrimination.
    WHAT ABOUT THE PRIVACY OF MY BODY?

    What you do or don't do with your body is your personal business. If you need to have a pregnancy test, or if you're pregnant, you should go to the family planning clinic nearest you. Your local ACLU can help you find one. Some schools provide birth control supplies; find out if yours does. If you go to the doctor, find out what the doctor's policy is on telling your parents.

    It's your constitutional right to have an abortion. You don't even have to tell your boyfriend about it if you don't want to. However, some states require women under the age of 18 to get their parents' permission, or at least tell them about the abortion. But if you can't tell your parents, you have a right to go to court and ask the judge to drop the parental notification requirement in your particular case.

    Reproductive rights is a very serious issue, and groups like the ACLU are working hard to make sure no woman or girl loses her rights to a safe and legal abortion if she decides to have one.
    WHO HAS TO KNOW IF I HAVE AN HIV TEST?

    Some states require your parents be notified before you get tested or get treatment. Ask your local ACLU about the laws in your state concerning HIV testing of minors, and where you can get tested anonymously. One last thing: your school or employer doesn't have the right to force you to be tested for HIV. You totally have the right to refuse to take an HIV test.

    "(The right to privacy is a person's) right to be left alone by the government... the right most valued by civilized men."
    - Former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis"

    Sounds good? So WHERE was the ACLU when all those rights were destroyed by our current President.?Replacing Probable causde and all those other need privacy rightss with the right to be arrested upon mere suspicion of not just actng but in supporting those who take action with no warrantgs, no judges, no juries, nothing.

    They speak one way and act anothere. The forked tongue artists of the secular progressive left.strike again.

    Where was the American Civil Liberies Unions when civil liberties were destroyed by Barrak Hussein Obama and the Secular Progressive Left the last time with an 85% vote in favor from the Senate alone?

    Everything they stated while sounding good was a lie.

    Where was our Congress who voted for destroying civil liberties.

    Where was our President who signed it into law?

    Where were our teachers and educators?

    Where were our media?

    For them the phrase"You have a right to be left" is the entirety of that prhase.

    The stalwart members of the Dumb Ass Party were busy selling civil rights down the drain. Dap that!
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    THE basic political right is the right to be left a-
    lone.
    To do what you want and not have your prop-
    erty rights interfered with as long as you respect the same rights in others. The right to pursue
    happiness. Not a guarantee of getting it. (See The Virtue of Selfishness). You can't just take
    the law into your own hands to get private re-
    venge for a wrong done to you; you are sup-
    posed to do that through your government. If
    you bring children into the world, you are obli-
    gated to support them until they are old enough
    to do it themselves (and, if they never can, due
    to mental retardation or some such disability,
    as long as you and the children live). This does
    not mean that anyone has a right to force your
    neighbors to supply your "needs", such as food,
    shelter, etc.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, I was under UCMJ and the military oath. But
    my fellow citizens (including the owners of the oil
    companies) had rights that I had no right to violate.
    Suppose somebody violates your rights, and tells
    you, "I have to do it, because I took an oath"?
    You should properly tell him, "I don't care what
    oath you took, that isn't binding on me, so
    leave me alone."
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'll stick with the root -- everything can be first pinned on humans allowing themselves to be "governed". Humans continue working toward self-destruction, while we're supposedly so intelligent.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    He does little that is within his rights as President. Less than that where his responsibilities are involved. Both of the two categories added up to not my job I'm only here to spread some wealth in my direction and kick back for eight years before retiring - with out ever having worked a day in my life.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But you were under UCMJ and the military oath else you would have never been in the military unless you were a civilian contractor and that group is an except-ional kettle of fish.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or is it worship the lawyers and congressionals?

    The first should never be allowed in Congress but recused as having a vested interest above and beyond the rule of law. The second were best described by Mark Tawin. Congress is the only true home grown criminal class of the United States.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But he does it anyway. Basic part of the Declaration of Independence . Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. -- properly punifectuated.

    The natural rights that which are naturally inherent and life itself come first. Air, Water, Food, Shelter, Clothing the basics. The liberties needed to pursue Life and Happiness among which property rights and the right to self protection are first and foremost. Happiness among other things is the right peace in the community the principle that was used to define the line between which religions and other types of belief systems and the establishment clause. Government may not establish a single Church of State but individually may be guided by religious principles (and others.) Geo. Washington set forth the first test of that with the Quakers. Yes you may be Quaker, No you may not disobey the rule of law within the State. Let's talk about this. How about military service without carrying or using a weapon? Why not? But not limited to Quakers. OK we'll call it conscientous objectors. Deal.

    I left medicine off the list and education. to cause this discussion. If yiou do not have access to medicine or education (health oof body and mind) are not the other rights meaningless? Maybe add shelter meaning a really nice home to that and let's see a Hummer in every drivew way?

    Secular Progressives would argue that way with the State running the health, and education system or deciding what kind of car.

    But it only says pursuit of happiness so where do we draw the line on what is a basic Right To Life expense?

    I would add any state and local tax? Is that not one of our biggest burdens perhaps the largest. Add it all up the little hidden stuff that makes up the total bill before sales tax along the way. The fees for items we've already paid for.

    Look for this discussion in the New Section.
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Doesn't all this boil down to our "Right to Life", and all which necessarily follows? To me, that is THE root principle.
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My view would be that today's dictionaries shift with the prevailing winds, e.g "anarchy" was coined by the Greeks with any reference to "chaos".

    That renders definitions quite useless to real communication and understanding.

    Black's Law:
    http://thelawdictionary.org/corporal-...
    may be closer to "the law", but then somehow we are supposed to worship law, and we consume our lives with it's intricacies.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All I could think of with the Abbey was to threaten them with billing them for my time for having to put up with their drumming as an economic externalization, instead of building for their bands they have a tent. I did not know how to go about it though. It probably would not have worked to send them a bill for my time.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Corporal punishment | Define Corporal punishment at Dictionary.com
    www.dictionary.com/browse/corporal-pu...
    Corporal punishment definition, Law. physical punishment, as flogging, inflicted on the body of one convicted of a crime: formerly included the death penalty, ...

    One of those words whose definition has been formally changed. One reason isi it's very difficult to punish a dead body.
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