Galt's Gulch

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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 10 months ago
    I guess this is exercising property rights, but it alienates the fan base that made it what it is. I think it is an unwise business move.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 10 months ago
    On the one hand, copyright is copyright. Recall what Rand said even of the fair-use rules: "Personally I would sooner destroy every existing copy of my books than permit it."

    On the other hand, this reeks of bad copyright management. And shows how badly large companies manage anything. The Law of Inertia applies here. And inertia, more than anything else, characterizes large companies.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 10 months ago
      They may be within the law, as currently written by lawyers for companies like CBS and Paramount, but alienating their own customers, who are not only not taking away from CBS/Paramount, but actually adding to their viewership, is rather dumb.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 10 months ago
    This is a great example of how intellectual property law goes overboard, and prevents more new creative works than it encourages (contrary to its proper Constutional purpose).

    The background of "Star Trek" is 50 years old this year, and should have been placed in the public domain decades ago. The original creators should continue to own only a right to be paid for the specific works they published, and not a general right to prohibit derived works.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago
      Actually, they have 75 years on the original works. Disney got an extension for Steamboat Willy. Doesn't mean it isn't a really bad move from a business perspective.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago
    CBS and Paramount have every right to put out the guidelines and enforce them. The fans, however, have great power. All they need to do is to Stop Buying The Star Trek Products. That will zip the Mega-Corps to bargaining faster than a rabbit producing litters.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
      Fan fiction producers would be better off channeling their energies into producing totally original episodes or movies that retain the optimistic outlook and thoughtful storylines that appeal to Star Trek fans, without infringing any copyrights or trademarks. By doing so they could disregard the new rules, employ whatever actors and writers they choose, add adult content if they wish to, copyright their films, promote their films to the entire science fiction fan base, and distribute them commercially for profit. The indie market could even be where the next great science fiction franchise originates.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
        The is an aura to Trek that people like. There are several new programs trying to get there, go look up "Blade of Honor" which just finished a Kickstarter at 51K (enough for 2 shows). They are trying a non Trek sci fi story. Have to see what it is like.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 10 months ago
          Trek has been statist claptrap propaganda since the original series ended. i watched it all without the realization I was being manipulated until late in the "next generation.".
          Picard was a statist ass. Riker should have mutinied in the second episode.
          Later series "leaders" were even worse.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
      I think Jan has the right idea, there is a point where the copyright to the concepts ends and the copyrigght to specific material takes over. Well and good they own the current stuff, but the use of the concepts and characters in original material should be free and unfettered, and let the marketplace decide the quality by voting with their money. CBS is doing the socialist version of ownership "I own it all, even yours"
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
        RE: “the use of the concepts and characters in original material should be free and unfettered”. I agree about the concepts, but not about the characters. I don’t think, for example, that characters created and marketed by Disney should be in the public domain. Ditto for the characters in Atlas Shrugged.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
          Indeed, a point. That would be something that would need hammering out. However, Axanar has very little connection to anything ever made, that is it's whole point. ST Continues and New Voyages are a lot more violating of this concept. Yet it is Axanar sued. Renegades treads a little deeper, but then they are killing off them to move onto their own characters. I believe there is a lot more behind all this than IP.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 10 months ago
    Thanks...never knew this stuff existed...I guess it won't again.
    It was such a successful series.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
      That has been successfully destroyed by mush minded executives, who only care about their little narrow vision of what is "theirs". These rules are going to make a lot of people upset who have been making fan Trek for years now. Of course, there will be a lot who blame Axanar, but their only crime was being too good, better than what CBS could make, and for a lot less cost.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 10 months ago
    I am a huge fan of the first Star Trek TV shows. A good number of those shows I've watch who knows how many times.
    I just watched the entire "Come Not Between Dragons" due to finding myself hooked at the get-go.
    What an awesome parody! That would have been one of the best original Star Treks if played by the original actors back in the 60s.
    If I were CBS or Paramount, I would not stifle such great stuff. I would consider it a salute.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
      Exactly one of the arguments, this is a mini Hilary event. Same illogic, same bad stories being told, same twisting of facts. The fact CBS could have bought into Axanar for a very low amount, and helped them make it, then turned around and had a ready made platform for an ongoing series at very low cost, to use on their new access thingy, and dragged a few hundred thousand fans to their new channel, shows just how incompetent business people have become. The shareholders of CBS should be furious and demand that they fire the management. Wasting big money on a gamble is usually frowned on by shareholder, who are normally risk averse, and this thing has been one risky screw up after another.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
    Just received a message from the "Star Trek: Renegades" group on Kickstarter, of which I am a supporter, regarding the new guidelines. It reads in part:

    "As you know, we've already begun filming “The Requiem” so we cannot halt, suspend, or postpone production. Renegades, from the get go, was designed to be transformative... not derivative. Thus, with very minor changes to our script, we have eliminated all of the Star Trek references. The good news is that Renegades is now a completely original and ongoing series."

    I'm actually okay with that. Affordable technology for making movies has advanced to the point that sci-fi fans who wish to produce their own content are better off striking out on their own, creating truly original content and hopefully using it as a springboard to more professional mainstream projects.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
      My question there (I supported them too), is How do you plan to do this? Tuvoc cannot be in it, the Admiral cnnot be in it. No Starfleet ships, warp drive, alien races, etc. If it has ever been in Trek (and they had a lot of trek structure in it) it cannot be used per the new rules of acquisition.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
        The actors can be in it, just need to change the names and uniforms of their characters. Alien races, starships, technology ditto, as long as the names and shapes are different. It will take a little effort, but most of the changes will be cosmetic. Future series will have an easier time, as they will not have to correct course midstream.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
          CBJ, I do not see it that way (and that is indeed part ofg this whole mess, is it is as clear as mud) but Tuvoc would appear to break the New Rule of Acqusition number 5:

          The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees.
          - See more at: http://www.startrek.com/fan-films#sth...

          Renegades will either have to dump all their actors who have SG licenses, or go rogue, to meet this one. This is particularly targeted at Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, JG Hertzler and Gary Graham. There are others as well,but most of Renegades cast were professional actors, who do not appear to meet the requirement for "amateurs".
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
            Renegades, according to their own statement, says "we have eliminated all of the Star Trek references." I'm not sure of the details (the finished product will show us that), but it looks like Renegades is no longer associated with Star Trek in any way, and therefore is not subject to any of the new rules. I think the characters will have to be renamed, but the actors should be free to remain in the production if it is no longer in the Star Trek universe.
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            • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
              That will be interesting to see, in that they already committed to Ep1 that it is ST and the ST Universe. It will be hard to change in midstream, but I hope they do. It wasn't a huge impression making show, but was series worthy. It would have been good to see it mature. I am hoping Netflix (who was turned down in a request to make an ST series), grabs it just to smack CBS.
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              • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
                The Renegades website is now showing new names for the characters as well as for the Federation.
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                • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
                  Well, good for them, they are trying to wiggle within the new NROA. They have a unique advantage, all their main supporters know what is really going on. Look at Blade of Honor for what it is like to start from scratch with a new idea. It has almost all the same actors in it.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 10 months ago
    Blah, blah, blah... I donated $100 to AXANAR. Did you put your money where your mouth is?

    This is an old problem. Paramount changed the Star Trek Universe, granted that. Before this new series (2009) Paramount would not allow profic (professional fiction) that derived from fanfic (fan-created fiction) in which new romances exists. In the current product, Spock and Uhuru violate that stricture.

    But so what?

    You need to look at SHERLOCK HOLMES which is still controlled by the owners of the copyright. On the other hand, no one owns Shakespeare.

    Property rights are important... to property... but what is and is not property is a metaphysical discussion that has never been resolved rationally. We need it. We do not have it. (yet).
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
      That is true, and I am at 250.00 for Axanar, and would throw more at it. They know what they are doing from a quality perspective. Unlike CBS. Even Renegades was sub par compared to Tobias Richters efforts in Axanar. Look at the new trailers they sent out.
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  • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
    Freedom!!! I can't believe you found this and I did not. I have been a supporter of Axanar, and contributed heavily to see it made, and I still have no idea why something that basically is a creation of one person/group, that is just using a framework established over 50 years, is unethical or illegal. I would hope they go on and make it, and say "so sue us". Justin Lin and JJ basically lied a couple weeks ago. Arghh...
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    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 10 months ago
      They should start a parallel universe, or get the rights to an existing one (maybe from Robert A. and Virginia Heinlein Prize Trust) and produce something that Star Trek fans can't resist.
      There are so many great Heinlein stories that haven't been converted to video and his fans probably exceed and include Star Trek fans as a subset. They don't even need the rights to a specific story, just use of the framework.
      Fighting the IP owners of Trek is a losing proposition. They haven't shown much intelligence since NBC brilliantly cancelled ST in 1969.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
        There is a whole battle now brewing over this. Lots of agitation. If interested go look at what is posted in ST.Com where the "rules" are. 99% negative, some very virulent. ST Beyond and their new series will tank quickly as a lot of fans will boycott it. CBS may end up selling the IP and there is talk of a group of people all pooling their money together to buy it. Once they get done ruining it, it will have little value, except what already exists, so some deal may actually be struck to sell "new" material IP as separate entities. This is illustrative of the total disconnect between the "elites" and the people. These idiots have no idea what Trek Fans really want, and are willing to pay for, and do not understand the concept of value for value. The believe in "we give you what we want, you give us your money, and like it". Just like our glorious Republic is today.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 10 months ago
          Its a cash cow that they will milk as long as possible. That is the essence of Hollywood. They own the IP and they acquired it legally at significant cost. It is theirs to destroy and they have every right to do so.
          I agree that fans should organize a boycott and follow the example of Winthorp and Valentine.
          They might even join forces with someone from the industry to create new media content as an alternative.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago
          RE: "ST Beyond and their new series will tank quickly as a lot of fans will boycott it." I'm not so sure. The majority of fans are not that hardcore and most are not heavily (if at all) into fan fiction. Some fans of the indie productions will undoubtedly boycott the new CBS series, but I don't think there are enough of them to make a significant difference in whether it lives or dies.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
            Make no mistake, there is a large group of people peripherally connected to ST through the fan fils, all having "their" favorite, many to an exclusion of all others. These rules decimate them all. For a lot of people, the Axanar debacle was of no concern, as long as their specific interest was not threatened, but now, these new rules kill off all ST fan productions, for the most part. So they have managed to unite a whole diverse group and it may backfire on them. We shall have to see...
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 7 years, 10 months ago
            There are a multitude of efforts starting, one is a Facebook page for
            https://www.facebook.com/groups/small...
            It seeks to reduce CBS's projected take by encouraging people to form groups where one person subscribes to CBS and all watch ST new series. The theory is that it would reduce their revenue compared to everyone paying. Like buying one movie ticket at a drive in and bringing 5 people in the trunk.
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