So, one has to wonder who paid for the ports facilities, and if their "fees" are warranted or reflect an urge to fleece a "rich guy", who can afford to be looted "for the greater good".
There may also be a resentment motive among space program bureaucrats over a private company showing Big Brother up. Progress made for doing anything is always retarded by crippling fees and taxes.
Spacex is a private company, seems they would do what all private companies do when their taxes / fees are raised, pass it on to the customer - in this case NASA, for resupply to ISS, which will cause NASA to up the fees for pad 41, which will cause Spacex to up the fees for delivery.... Im curious what, if any, the "fees were for the returning shuttle boosters, as well as the sections of Saturn rockets, they went through the port to the turning basin.
This is the barge used to transport the tank back to the "turning basin", which is the "lagoon" directly behind the big blue clock (before it was torn down & replaced) you would see on TV that did the countdown to launch. http://www.starznbarz.com/Space-shutt...
Thanks to Julian Leek, world class NASA photographer and all around stand up guy: The barge in my pic WAS used to transport the external fuel tanks - from New Orleans to Canaveral, apparently the barge had to be rebuilt to a larger dimension after the initial construction.Now, we are back to the original question, did NASA pay a similar port fee for a similar transport?
Youre welcome. When I write opinion pieces I am careful to include links to sources to back up my claims - youre never too old to learn that even when youre sure youre right...
My bad. I figured they just kinda towed the barge over it and floated it back, after looking into it, the external tank is designed to break up and sink when it impacts. The boosters are towed back alongside a ship, now Im curious what the barge is for, Ill reach out to a contact at NASA and update you. I hope it`s not a taxpayer funded party barge for NASA Christmas parties...
I can see their point, using the port should incur the same fee as any other user of it, but how large the cargo is shouldn't make much of a difference to the port. Ports do operate as an on-going enterprise, and it certainly takes revenue to operate an enterprise. The obvious thing is though that they shouldn't be treated unlike any other customer and pay the same fees and rate. A surcharge for the security requirements would certainly be warranted.
It's not international trade though, which a 'wharfage fee' would typically mean.
Wharfage is charged on any cargo that uses the wharf, whether it be domestic, coastwise, or international. However, many ports have a reduced rate for domestic cargo.
Our Dear Leader, The One, Barack Hussein Obama (mmm, mmm, mmm...) has said that the booster issue is not SpaceX's. Remember the words of our Supreme Leader: "If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."
The Port Authority just needs to find that "somebody else" and present them with the bill.
I heard the egyptians upped the charge on large boats going thu the suez canal to $270,000 to make more money for egypt. Governments have no idea of commerce.
Exactly. They rarely have any cogent concepts, except emotional ones. Usually attached to some from of diatribe designed to turn one group against another.
Of course it is a fleece job. Fivedollargold is surprised that Musk didn't negotiate a long-term deal with the Port Authority when he did so with NASA for use of the Cape. Oversight.
On a related issue, has anyone heard of plans to take SpaceX public?
Maybe the issue was moot, because they were just in line doing business with them as had been done all along for a long time. It seemed that was what the article implied, that they were working under a standard agreement, until the Port decided that Musk could obviously be made to pay more, because, well, he is rich...
I do not agree with that idea. Even as a GM of CP, he has made his money in business. Unless he has engaged in some unethical practice, I would say penalizing him for it is the unethical part. I am sure he is blowing big bucks to make this work. His auto end has of course, benefited from all the goodies the politicos have hung out there, but others have as well. Toyota comes to mind...
Charging a higher fee for the additional security needs is probably merited. Knowing what I do about rocket boosters, the environmental impact is also definitely higher than is typical for most cargo. However, the booster is far from the heaviest item to come into Port Canaveral. There is some price gouging here, above and beyond what would be a reasonable surcharge for additional impact on Port Canaveral, but not as much as most think.
Note: I pay a small tax (about $100 of my $3000 per year property tax) to the Port Canaveral Taxing Authority. I don't want additional impact fees that should be charged to port users to be passed on to me.
The vast majority of the solid rocket booster reagent is consumed during the rocket launch, but there is a residue that sticks to the vessel. This residue is water-soluble, so the threat to the environment is only serious if it rains, which happens a lot here in a Florida summer.
Falcon 9 is fueled with liquid oxygen and kerosene and has no booster residue on landing. Large solid boosters usually fall into the seas. If government is to have property such as ports, then there are two main ways to pay for their use, taxes or fees for use. Fees are the best way for those who do not use the property.
Indeed, fees are the most equitable. Value for value. However, it is in defining the value and having it be evenly applies where there seems some disconnect.
One correction: the SpaceX booster does not use solid propellants. The main thrusters use LOX and RP-1 (liquid oxygen and kerosene). The exhaust does leave a soot component on the deck, so the rest is correct.
In the past I've spent much time in Florida and it does rain a lot. So I would suggest the SpaceX company buy private property in a desert state like Utah and create a space port of its own. Just first make sure there is no lizard or insect around that's naturally going Darwin so the EPA won't come along and make them tear the space port back down.
There have been proposed alternate coastal launch sites, like Padre Island in Texas, Cat Island off the Mississippi coast, and island sites off the Georgia and North & South Carolina coasts. Until a solid safety record is established, inland launch sites are likely to be restricted to suborbital flight, or takeoff and landing of aircraft carrying launch stages. Launch and reentry over populated areas is unlikely for the time being.
Maybe, I am not a booster engineer or have any knowledge of them. It just seems funny that it comes up when they start actually doing them, rather than as a cost analysis would predict beforehand. Maybe just poor planning, not unknown to govt agencies.
Or else.
Atta boy! Have a nice day.
The next boat may dock over here, pretty please.
Progress made for doing anything is always retarded by crippling fees and taxes.
It's not international trade though, which a 'wharfage fee' would typically mean.
The Port Authority just needs to find that "somebody else" and present them with the bill.
On a related issue, has anyone heard of plans to take SpaceX public?
Note: I pay a small tax (about $100 of my $3000 per year property tax) to the Port Canaveral Taxing Authority. I don't want additional impact fees that should be charged to port users to be passed on to me.
I would have thought they'd cover the thing so it can't wash off.
If government is to have property such as ports, then there are two main ways to pay for their use, taxes or fees for use. Fees are the best way for those who do not use the property.
So I would suggest the SpaceX company buy private property in a desert state like Utah and create a space port of its own.
Just first make sure there is no lizard or insect around that's naturally going Darwin so the EPA
won't come along and make them tear the space port back down.
Go west, spaceman, go west.