What is Galt's Gultch, really?

Posted by coaldigger 11 years, 1 month ago to History
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I have been reading a number of new biographies of founding fathers and Lynne Cheney’s “James Madison-A Life Reconsidered” strikes me as having special relevance to current events (I see intent on the part of the author and her spouse.) A common theme for each bio to me is that a number of great men that could have been successful in their chosen lives, risked everything, absorbed unbelievable public abuse and loss of fortune to create a Republic based on unalienable, individual rights.
This has caused me to wonder what did Rand really mean by Galt’s Gultch? I have, like most, always thought that it was a “solution” where men of the mind went on strike to rid themselves of the leaches that had usurped the power to control society on the false premise of altruism. The strategy was to let the system collapse quickly so there would still be producers that could rebuild it. I have never known a John Galt-like person and he always seemed to be a character out of Marvel Comics. I have known a few people like Hank and Dagny that held out until the end and I find them most believable.
What if Galt’s Gultch is not a “solution” but a “warning”? A warning to the leaches that they are driving the producers into hiding mentally, not physically, and gradually instead of abruptly. A warning to the men of the mind that they cannot afford to focus on being producers of goods and services but that they must lay down their science books like Jefferson and Franklin, their academic pursuits like Madison and Monroe their production of commercial goods like Washington, their financial acumen, like Hamilton and get into the realm of the political refurbishing of our Great Experiment in self-government.
I have always thought that politics was so corrupt and dirty that no truly qualified person would ever seek elected office. Perhaps too many have been of a like mind.

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  • Posted by $ blarman 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I would have thought that a more effective example would simply be labeled "capital flight" - the result of businesses moving their assets to lower tax states/countries. It's one of the reasons Apple isn't a US company. It's one of the reasons Google's founder dropped US citizenship. It's why many major corporations are moving their headquarters out of California.
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  • Posted by gafisher 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    It doesn't have to be an "either-or," Jan. In AS, it was inclusionary in the sense of Galt personally inviting residents and exclusionary in both the remote location and the "refractor ray" mirage hiding the Gulch, as well as immigration rules which required a pledge of secrecy. Those rules also required immigrants to be strikers (in the AS sense) prepared to pursue gainful employment within the Gulch.

    I very much agree with coaldigger's premise that Galt's Gulch is a place not of geography but of the mind, to me an allegory for withholding the sanction of the victim while simultaneously favoring the self-reliant.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    The way I see it is that in the world of the Objectivist, merit should determine the outcome of every event. In our present world, outcomes are determined by ability to game the system. The secret weapon of the gamers is altruism. The enablers are religious leaders and secular progressives. The meritorious are enslaved by their own "goodness" and to set themselves free they need to reject society's definition of the common good and religious teachings and promises of an afterlife. That seems to me to be too many hurdles for people that have there heads down, building things instead of contemplating philosophic issues to ever form a critical mass. This is why I have a concern about the partial withdrawal to the Gulch by the many while the few that have made a full escape age in place.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 11 years, 1 month ago
    The Gulch in AS was a sanctuary, concealed from the rest of the world, password-protected and self-sufficient, with resources at hand, food production, and John Galt's motor supplying all the energy needed. It worked fine for a limited number of population. The valley was spacious enough that Dagny even considered running a train through it. It would tide the most valuable people through long enough, if the outside world went completely to hell. These people were handpicked by Galt as the movers and shakers of the world, without whose talents civilization would break down, and whose values and virtues were congruent with his own. Is it really the case that out of 7 billion people, a mere 70, or even 700, could run everything? Was Atlantis a modern-day Noah's Ark for those whose psycho-epistemology most matched Rand's own? Do we, today, in the real world, have a critical mass?
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  • Posted by IndianaGary 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Hear! Hear! I shrugged in October 2012 when I stopped supporting my executioners and am doing all I can to bring the bastards down.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    We're working on both a summer and a winter Atlantis. I'm glad to know I'll have another neighbor, NealS.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Count me among them, coaldigger. With a name like that, you and I should become quick friends. I have been on every side of the energy equation. My family's name is Brenner, which means one that burns. We trace our lineage back to Germans who mined and burned coal way back in the 1300s.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Right on NealS! My search is on and after going on strike in 2010 myself, I'm looking for my Valley" right now. I can't wait to shed myself of all the influences of "The Peoples Republic of Illinois". Too long I've awoke in the morning to only find that new limits were passed limiting my rights by the statehouse all without anybody knowing about them. Passed in the dead of the night by Mouch's spiritual brethren.

    I truly believe that the trip to the bottom will be much, much shorter than the rise back to the top. When BO was running (lieing) to be elected, I was in every chat room warning what life would be like under his rule.

    Too many wanted a historical president instead of a man who was fit to do the job. So now we have a president that's going to go down in history as historically bad president. One who rode on the coattails of the men who served the nation - now he demands that we serve him.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Unfortunately The (mental)Gulch accepts partial strikers which is what I am alluding to. Even the diminishing efforts of the producers is so much more system sustaining than the bleeding effect of the feeble parasites that collapse will happen too slow and there will be no one left to rebuild. The holdouts like Rearden and Dagny will not follow Galt anymore than they did Mr. Thompson but their drive and energy will ebb,
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  • Posted by NealS 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I put my tools down in December 2001 (retired from working 8 hours or more a day). In 2009 I sold my business and put all of my tools down when I felt my time to contribute was over. I was fearful that Atlas Shrugged was now becoming non-fiction. To my surprise I was right. In 2010 that business failed as the new owners weren't willing to give it what I gave it for the previous 20 years. Just where is that valley in the mountains in Colorado? I'm ready to go, even though I've kind of duplicated it right where I'm at. Perhaps I could use it for a summer place. It's too late for me to help right the ship, but I'll do my part in taking it down. The sooner we get to the bottom the sooner we can start the recovery.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 11 years, 1 month ago
    It's mental, not physical. I'm old enough to have followed the Minerva Reef project and the boat that sank in the Hudson. Rand was dismissive of such efforts, sort of as if she were saying, "That's not what I said." She found herself consistently having to answer the question, "Is Atlas shrugging?" and her answer was always no.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    England had a huge brain drain in the 1800s to the US because we had a superior patent and financing system in place. New Zealand had a huge brain drain in late 20th century, as did India and China. Many latin american countries. Some nations turned around, others have not. But even the ones who have not, put in capital controls. Venezuela has done it, we're starting now. ever taken a intl flight and gave an oath you are not traveling with more than 10,000 dollars of negotiable instruments?
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    there are examples everywhere. One of the most recent is the co-founder of Facebook. Often the brain drain is virtual. Take jbrenner. He is a professor, but he was a co-founder of a company that had the potential to employ many people. He walked away from that. Many of our clients have as well. where are all the jobs? who is john Galt?
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  • Posted by BradA 11 years, 1 month ago
    Unfortunately I think you have misinterpreted the logistics of Ayn's strike concept but you did get its purpose right. Although the plotline centers on the removal of the contributions of the "men of the mind" to society, her strike required the participation of a critical mass of ALL of society's "producers." This included anyone of competence who was enabling the "engine" to continue running. Think Eddie Willers and all of the other train crews abandoning their posts. The underlying concept is not about the 1 per centers throwing a hissy fit, but about the freedom of men (and women) to produce and exchange what they produce without outside influence from the government or anyone else. The socialism that she hated is a system where the government tells you both what and how much you are to produce as well as what and how much you consume. Galt's Gulch was intended as the opposite to this approach.
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  • Posted by flanap 11 years, 1 month ago
    You're gonna love this...Galt's Gulch is where the shadow elites will reside until the population has been reduced 80% by the policies of those they backed in the first place, then when the 80% is gone, they will return and setup shop as they deem necessary.

    This is what some think the unstated message was of AS.

    Sounds interesting since that is exactly where the shadow elite want to take us and AS has been rather on task in terms of prognostication to this point.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 1 month ago
    I find that most of the "men of the mind" have not shrugged, but rather have turned into moochers and looters. They slide into crony capitalism very easily. Look at Warren Buffett, George Soros, Bill Gates, nearly all Hollywood actors, etc., etc., etc.

    I would put the Koch brothers as the modern day Hank Rearden.

    The Gulch was a plot device. I don't find it rational as a mechanism for truly bringing about a return to what America used to be. I'm afraid if it is fully lost, it will usher in centuries of serfdom.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 11 years, 1 month ago
    One of the first decisions to make is whether to use inclusionary or exclusionary criterion. Is the Gulch a place where 'producers and people of like mind' are included or a place where 'moochers are excluded'. I am in favor of the latter: I like the Gulch as a place where there is a simple list of exclusionary criteria, but other than that all philosophies are welcome. (I do not see eye-to-eye with many of the people in this gulch, but I suspect that you would make good - and interesting - neighbors.)

    Jan
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  • Posted by coaldigger 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    A premise I am considering is that the Gulch is not a physical place but a mental state where one has withdrawn, voluntarily or not, one's mind from production in protest of being cast as a slave to non-producers. Neighbors in misery may not be all that good.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 11 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    The first time I encountered the term, brain-drain, was in reference to professionals leaving Great Britain and coming to the US due to nationalization of industries and socialized medicine. Oops! Perhaps the drainage led to Margaret Thatcher and a mini reversal but that would not work for us now.
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