I am going to specifically address how you completely misinterpret anything posted. I will also break down your faulty reasoning on my previous post.

YOU: A couple of points: First, you seem to think governments are people who need to hit each other with sticks.

REPLY: No place did I state they "NEED" to hit each other with sticks. I stated and implied that if you hit me I will hit you back harder to teach you to NOT DO THAT!!!. The United States needs to start HITTING BACK HARD and FAST in order to get these people to the table to negotiate FAIR trade. Be it totally free or protectionist between countries but trade needs to be an equitable 2 way street. If China, for example, did not add 100 - 225% tariffs on OUR products there would be no need to smack them down. Pacifism is contrary to objectivism since being pacifist does not provide value for value, it promotes self-sacrifice and altruism.

YOU: You also seem to think that governments produce or own the goods which are traded on the international market.
REPLY: NEVER in any post EVER have I ever stated or implied in any way shape or form Government produces anything. If I have please show me specifically because I mistyped. PERIOD!!! The government specifically the United States Government in the Constitution is and should be ONLY subsidized by tariffs.
Please read up on the history of Income Tax. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A000592...
1913, the 16th Amendment made Income tax permanent, and thus started the downward spiral of Statism and Government control through levies on individuals. Prior the income tax was used to fund war efforts like the Civil war and was meant to be temporary.
Income tax in any form is nothing short of looting by statists.

YOU: The tariffs you speak of are government taxes on the otherwise willing trade between individuals and companies that actually produce and want to trade with one another.
REPLY: Within the United States Constitution at the founding of this country Tariffs were supposed to be the ONLY real means of funding the limited government the founders intended.

YOU: I did not call for any sacrifice at all.
Actually in your statement that WE should have zero tariffs while everyone else uses tariffs to prohibit or form trade barriers is indeed demanding sacrifice. Again economics 101. When profits are easier elsewhere, businesses flow like water, to the path of least resistance. Add the tariffs every other country imposes on the United States vs. every other country and you see a totally concerted effort to tear down this exceptional country by the rest of the world. Our supposed leaders are just too damn stupid to use the sticks we have to beat everyone back into FAIR trade for fear of offending someone. Sure there might be some pain in the short term, but when every other country suffers famine and we do not, they will either shape up or try to attack us for our resources, at which point we will do to them what we did to Germany in WWII.

YOU: I call for government getting out of the way of free trade.
REPLY: I do not disagree, however, please still tell me how you plan on getting ALL other sovereign nations to do the same? Please do tell. I would love you to give me the solution. Other than Tariffs, or invasion.

YOU: Finally, the fact that other countries are much worse on this issue does not mean that our government should follow suit or up the ante until all trade is prohibited (the logical consequence of your stick hitting strategy).
REPLY: Now you are hitting on the antithesis of Objectivism and promoting the self-sacrifice you said you did not promote.
When attacked you do not turn the other cheek and say "Thank you, Sir...May I have another." You react to stop their bad behavior regardless of the pain and suffering the other country might face. That is not our concern, nor should we really care. I quote Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged when Philip told his brother Hank. "You really do not care about the less fortunate do you?"
Hank. "No, No I do not."

YOU: As for your suggestion that we should study economics more, I would recommend Mises (greatly admired by Rand) and Rothbard on the tariff issue.

Edited to correct a couple typos
REPLY: And they are wrong. I think the founding fathers of this country were FAR smarter than the others and placed tariffs as one of the many tools of Government to deal with other nations.

Could, would and should does not put food on the table nor turn Oregon back into a net energy exporters instead of debtor importer. Good ole subjectivism takes another nose dive.

So much for supporting the New Marijuana Cartel.

https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=car

USA imposes mostly free or no tariff, then less than 6.5% in most all cases.

China imposes in many cases 100% or more tariffs on products entering their country. They impose NO tariff on products made in China or in some other countries. I suggest you study economics a bit more, and look at the WTO trade and tariff schedules to see just who is practicing this free trade and who is not.

Again. We already impose virtually ZERO tariffs on other countries. So your dream is already true. Now please enlighten me on how to get OTHER sovereign countries to do the same?

Your dream you speak of is not Objectivist "value for value", your stated action is the USA sacrifice ourselves for the good of others which is NOT objectivist at all but altruistic, or as Ayn put it EVIL.

If you hit me with a stick, and I hit you back harder, eventually you will STOP hitting me. Also who cares how cheap products are that come here if you have no job with which to earn the money to buy the cheap products with.

Keep telling that to the laid off employees of Ford, Nabisco, Carrier, and all the other companies that have taken millions of jobs out of this country leaving our people with nothing but welfare and unemployment.

Not only because of cheaper labor, and fewer regulations, but the markets that impose massive tariffs on US-made products. Ford can move to Mexico, make the SAME Chevy Impala, and pay ZERO tariff when they sell to China but get a 45% tariff when the car comes from the USA. They move to Mexico, The issues are naturally more complex but tariffs are a huge part of the issue.

Here is a list of companies that have left the USA for greener pastures for reasons of taxes, regulations, and tariffs they do not have to deal with elsewhere.

http://markmartinezshow.blogspot.com/...

They may suffer until "balance" is achieved. It really hurts to rip off a bandaid too, but that does not mean you can avoid doing it.

So I am guessing you are all on board with the USA suffering while every other country just uses their protectionist tactics to screw us and drive our country into financial oblivion, and get companies to relocate jobs outside the USA? Keep in mind with no jobs, welcome to Venezuela. The USA has inside its borders virtually ALL the resources we need and really do not "need? other countries. I am not saying be isolationist just pointing our they need us. We do not need them..

So please enlighten me on just you would propose to get china, mexico, japan and every other country to just play fair and equitably?

First, Fair Trade vs. Free Trade are two entirely different things.

There is no free trade when our products are tariffed at 20 - 50% going into other countries.

This is why the corporate inversion. When Nabisco can move a plant to Mexico, product their product and not have any tariff in China, vs. a 45% tariff from the USA they will move to Mexico. That is the way of the capitalist.

Balance of scales is required. Trump has alluded to this numerous times, but like any good chess player is not going to tell you his next ten moves.

If you tariff me 45% we tariff you 45%. That is what was alluded to. You tariff us ZERO we tariff you ZERO.

Cruz made a completely stupid argument on the tariff discussion when he told Trump.."..when diapers from china go up 45% you are going to hurt the middle class..." My answer to that is, tell that to the people from Carrier, Nabisco, Ford, HP, IBM that have been outsourced who have NO job to pay for diapers regardless of price.


Next, our Corporate tax and massive regulations are the other thing that drives out jobs. Trump understand exactly what is NEEDED to fix the system. Perot said this in a debate with Clinton and Bush when he talked about that giant sucking sound.

Perot was RIGHT then, and Trump knows that NOW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1...