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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago
    Disinformation by a waste of skin reporter who hasn't a clue how to"reason". Its a pro-statist screed that makes the same old losing argument for the lesser evil. No thought on how poorly has that worked the past 30 years. The author is a brainwashed pawn.
    Does the author actually look at the content of Johnson's statement? Do they examine what the libertarian party platform says?
    No, he takes a phrase out of context and splash it in a headline to trick the reader.
    Typical piss-poor reporting.

    You need to look at the site where the 73% was calculated, and the questions asked. Then ask yourself how much the statist candidates can be trusted to do what they say in an online quiz? You might agree with lots of things they say, but disagree with everything you know they will actaully do. Johnson was a gentleman and didn't accuse the socialist of lying on some things, (maybe because he thinks we don't have to be told.)

    “Now, that’s the side of Bernie that has to do with pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, let’s stop with the military interventions, that there is crony capitalism, that government really isn’t fair when it comes to this level playing field, legalize marijuana,” he said. “Look, 73 percent of what Bernie says I agree with. We come to a T in the road when it comes to economics. I would really argue that if we absolutely had a fair system of economics, that free markets, that we would do a lot better than going down the– going down the path of socialism.” - Gary Johnson

    However, since all the demrep candidates are looting liars who will never do the pro-liberty, free-market things they say, it doesn't matter if Johnson "agrees" with what Bernie says because Bernie is a looting liar.

    FWIW, I took the "test" at http://www.isidewith.com and agreed most with Johnson, and least with Hillary. Hillary, Bernie and Jill sloshed around near the bottom with HRM Donnie in the middle of the disgusting bottle of poison. Only Johnson rose to the top.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 2 months ago
      Thanks for the link, I'll run the "test" I'm curious how I align with the existing candidates. Honestly, I'm sickened by the field and feel removed from the process.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago
        It is an interesting quiz.
        Good point: you can specify your own answer if none are right for you.
        Bad point: if you specify your answers, they are counted as not agreeing with anyone, when in fact you may be close to agreement. So you have switch the ones you think are "agreement" and then re-calculate the percentage.
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    • Posted by ohiocrossroads 10 years, 2 months ago
      I took the Isidewith quiz and got 85% agreement with Trump and 78% agreement with Johnson. That's mildly irritating. On the bright side, I agree with Shrillary 28% and Bernie 27%.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago
        Did you look at the details of the questions by clicking on the button by each candidate? Its interesting, even though the candidates answers are pretty meaningless since there is no penalty for them if they lie.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
      Except that Johnson does not believe in or advocate free market capitalism, either.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago
        Give 4 examples of Johnson not wanting free markets.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
          "Give 4 examples of Johnson not wanting free markets"
          I would esp like to see examples of issues where some other candidate on the ballot in all states has a better record than Johnson on free markets.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
            Johnson states that "Climate Change/Global Warming" is man-made (Johnson-Stein debate, (44:50). There are two types on people who believe in man-made climate change - those with no scientific training or knowledge on the subject who have bought the lie hook and sinker, or those that are evil and devious to make a living on the lie. Either way, doesn't bode well for Johnson. This is not directly related to the knowledge of economics, but the Global Warming lie has a huge impact on economics.

            2. Health Care - Medicare - Johnson's view is that states need to control it, not federal government. Although better than federal government, it is still a far cry from a free market approach. Although understandable due to perceptions. To be fair, he does advocate free market healthcare for most others.

            3. State regulation of energy prices, government meddling in energy policies, taxes and redistribution, along with environmental regulation.

            4. Johnson claims to support the Second Amendment, but his choice of a blatant anti-gun rights (e.g., anti-civil rights) Weld makes his proclaimed support less than believable. Johnson tossing into garbage a pistol presented to him by Peterson give more believe to his anti-gun attitude.

            And I just can't stop boiling over the choice of a sleazy, slimy RINO Weld, who calls himself a Libertarian but simply ignores pretty much every Libertarian principle and who's definitions of freedom are not related to the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Tell me who your friends are, and I'll tell you who you are.

            Overall, Johnson has the best free-market claims of anyone on the American stage today. Of course, that is because no one else on that stage makes any free-market claims at all.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
              Thank you for giving detailed examples. Here is my take on them.
              #1 - In this case he's just stating facts. We may not like the facts, but he's stating them.
              #2 - Devolving it to the states sounds like a first step toward getting gov't out of it. I am fine with moving incrementally in the right direction.
              #3 - I didn't know about these.
              #4 - Wow! I had never heard of that.
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              • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
                If one is to trust whatever a candidate says, then I agree with you that Johnson is closest to the ideal (still very far, but...). However, his credibility, in my mind, is in serious doubt because:
                1. Man-made global warming is not a fact. There is Zero scientific evidence (not falsified, and lately even admitted falsified) of any abnormal global warming. The Earth may even be slightly cooling. In any case, any man-made contribution is less than a small fraction of one percent. Those are scientific facts. For a person to be on a national stage, he needs to make sure that he knows and understands the issues that he is talking about. Otherwise, we're back to what I describe as my claim #1.

                2. Agree - going in the right direction is preferable.

                3. http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johns...

                4. Weld had several interviews (Youtube) where he was asked about the right to bear arms and he sounded exactly like Bernie. Johnson was given a replica of George Washington's pistol by Austin Petersen at the convention. Johnson threw it in the trash and it was witnessed by several people there, retrieved and returned to Petersen. Says a lot about several issues.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
                  "Man-made global warming is not a fact"
                  I find this so patently absurd that I could not take seriously a candidate who simply denies an unpleasant reality.
                  #3 - I did a CNTL-F on that page and couldn't find those issues, but I may have been searching under the wrong terms.
                  #4 - I hope he has answer for this soon rather than after he hits 15% and is in the debates. Maybe his issue was with Austin Petersen, and he would have thrown away anything Petersen gave him. I'm just guessing. On the page you linked to for #3, it says he supports gun rights.
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                  • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
                    For #3, here are the specific quotes:
                    Federal tax incentives for energy, with state decisions.
                    Johnson co-sponsored the Western Governors' Association resolution:

                    Western Governors find that states must continue to play a pivotal role in electric power decisions. Specifically:
                    The existing authority of states over retail electric power sales and transmissions must be retained.
                    Congress should allow states to create regional mechanisms to decide regional power issues.

                    We need to pursue a national energy policy that will result in a diverse energy portfolio:
                    New energy development: Enable exploration and development of promising domestic oil, gas, coal, geothermal or wind resources.
                    Coal: Implement R&D and tax incentives to promote the development and deployment of new technologies.
                    Renewables: Accelerate the development and deployment of promising renewable energy technologies through the extension and expansion of state and federal production tax credits.
                    Environmental Regulation: Review environmental and natural resource policies to ensure they are as efficient as possible.
                    Permitting Energy Facilities: Streamline state, tribal and federal processes for siting new generation, electric transmission and natural gas pipelines.
                    Energy Infrastructure: Support economic and environmentally sound energy infrastructure investments to transport energy to markets

                    All of the above a standard code words for government control.
                    http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Gary_...

                    As to "man-made global warming," there are a multitude of actual scientific studies that present data to show that there is no man-made warming. But, without getting into deep specifics (we can, and perhaps should, in a separate post), simply ask yourself, if man-made warming is a fact, why would "scientists" and organizations, including governments, blatantly falsify the data? I think that there have been too many instances where the falsification of data (an anathema in the world of science) has been uncovered at the highest levels. Any scientist that lies and falsifies data eliminates himself (or herself, if you wish) from the scientific pool. I hope that we do not need to argue about that. Any "scientist" that disallows a different view, backed up by data, to be considered, is not a scientist, but a dogmatic theologian.
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
                      Thanks for posting that and the comment about code words. I thought, perhaps naively, that each one represents either devolving power from federal to state, cutting taxes, or reducing gov't interference (e.g. "review" and "streamline"). I can still read them that way, or I can interpret them to mean continued gov't influence. Maybe he's a politician leaving his options open.
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      • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
        Are you getting your info from the Puffington Host?
        The only semi-questionable market problem I have with Gary is GayNazi Cakes. I understand his point, but he should stand with the constitution, "everyone has a right to be a jerk". In the case of the baker, the aggressor is the person demanding a cake be made for them which is stepping on the liberties of the baker.
        Other than that, I have no problems with Gary's economic policies.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
          I don't want to be imprecise and wishy-washy; I will look up the references tonight. However, I did listen to several interviews of him and he was very clear about propagating a social safety net and communal responsibilities. That is 180 deg from free markets.
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          • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
            The cake thing was, he feels the gov was right regarding businesses making gay cakes against their faith. I can ignore that, because as it stands, it's the law of the land until challenged.

            Even the founding fathers believed we should have a minimal social safety net, but it should be uncomfortable. Communal Responsibilities as in volunteering, like Volunteer Fire Dept. Neither of which has anything to do with markets.

            I've reads his last two books, I read nothing of such "socialist" tendencies. He believes in good neighbors, It takes a village, not a government.
            The most liberal stance he has is, the gubermnet should stay the hell out of our lives, and bedrooms. He wants to roll back the budget to Clinton era spending.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
              Yes, Johnson does believe in keeping the government out of the bedrooms - and I support that 100%. But the social net? I must have missed that in my readings of either the Constitution or the writings of the Founding Fathers. If you're talking about private organizations, or individuals, giving to charity, yes, that can be considered a de facto safety net. Johnson is talking about the government providing it. Which means someone is being robed to pay for someone else not working, at the barrel of a gun. As to Weld being a socialist, I don't think that I need to do much research on that subject - just listen to any of his interviews, look at MA, look at his RINO politics. Any true Libertarian should be puking at Weld, not asking him to join as a VP.
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    • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
      Johnson shouldnt have made that 73% comment, given that the media can so easily tweek it to say what they want.
      Sanders is not 100% bad in all areas, but he IS a total statist when it comes to how he should run your life. He is an inconsistent statist who has picked up on the upset with the establishment and figures that fighting the establishment IS the way YOU should feel too.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago
        Agree, johnson made a tactical error from our point of view. OTOH, he may have been thinking about attracting those who support Sanders but will never support Hillary or Trump. He has to consider the net votes now and weave through the mine field of political idiocy without getting mortally wounded. A little shrapnel goes with the territory.
        For example, when GHW Bush ran for re-election against Clinton he could have changed his stand on gun laws and gained enough votes (without danger of losing a single one) to win the election. But he was Bush and New World Order doesn't want guns in the serfs hands.
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        • Posted by Dobrien 10 years, 2 months ago
          +1 for the NWO comment but that goes for Trump Oblamo Hillacraps Biden Kerry, Romney you name them and any other for the last sixty plus years of presidential candidates. Rare to have a good choice. They are hand picked by the shadow govt intending to turn us all into serfs.
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        • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
          Things would be so much better if the elections werent to determine whose OX is to be gored. Its all about who is receiving and who is getting in our crony system that makes it so difficult.
          Presidency should be won on administrative ability to run the country most efficiently as the constitution dictates (with the additional amendment that the government cant take from one to give to another)
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        • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
          Depends. If your main swing audience is Bernie supporters then maybe not. Bernie has the college kids. The Libertarians also draw college kids.
          Any R's looking for a Trump alternative already know about Libertarians and know who/what they are.
          Same with D's.
          It's the yoots that have been hanging onto their parents politics that need to be persuaded. Convincing that college kids that Johnson isn't all that far away from Bernie should be an easy sell. Just don't tell them Gary won't give them any free stuff. :-)
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      • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 2 months ago
        This is the same BS the media pulled against Donald Rumsfeld when he made his very intelligent remarks about "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns". They didn't understand it, so they made him look like a fool to their brainless followers -- but to anyone with brains it was obvious that they, the media, were the fools and expected me to be one too. Screw that!

        We will just have to rely on blogs, and on libertarian news outlets such as The Blaze, to get Johnson's message out to those willing to hear it. At least Johnson, unlike Sarah Palin, has the good sense not to panic when smeared by idiots with cameras.
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        • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
          I would suggest that Johnson should use the platform to talk about ideas and how the crony establishment is ruining us in so many ways. If he doesnt visibly try to get votes, the media might leave him alone
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 2 months ago
    Only someone who doesn't understand Libertarianism would write that article. The headline infers that Libertarianism leans toward socialism, which, of course, it doesn't. Because of the fact that Libertarianism has parts which Liberals also espouse makes some think it leans left, which turns off conservatives. It straddles several philosophic premises making it difficult to give it a simplistic left or right or middle. I would be willing to bet that many who vote Libertarian do so out of discontent with both major parties without understanding what they are voting for. Come to think of it, that might describe Democrats and a few Republicans.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
    The most damning single piece of evidence to support this contention: Gary Johnson believes that the globe is warming and that human beings are responsible. Now since most of the shrill voices are calling for totalitarian one-world government "solutions" to this "problem," this is not a viable libertarian position.
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    • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
      He believes in letting the free market address it.
      You can believe the climate is upside down, that doesn't mean you believe the UN has to do anything about it.
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      • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
        How can the free market address a problem that, according to those who say it exists, is due to inconsiderate actions of humans who regard certain of their waste products, in this case carbon dioxide, as an externality? How does one define a property interest in "the climate as it is or ought to be"? Is not the admission of a problem with anthropogenic global warming, a pretext for dictatorial control of human economic activity? If AGW is true as charged and described, does not the most ordinary motorist worsen the problem with every mile he drives, using internal combustion for motive power?
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
          "How can the free market address a problem that[...] is due to certain [...]waste products?"
          The market has to have provisions to make people whole if someone's waste products are costing them money. On one hand this is a huge problem, but I think the market will fix it.
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          • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
            Here's the problem: the waste product involved is carbon dioxide. A cadre of very shrill--and hypocritical--voices now have major policymakers convinced that carbon dioxide is just as much a pollutant as is an actually toxic substance dumped into the atmosphere. But we breathe that out ourselves, and plants take it in. This is absolutely crazy. And I am convinced it is all a scam--because the shrillest voices clearly don't believe it themselves. Rare is the shrill voice who actually pays any of the price they demand we pay. Ed Begley, Jr. (Living With Ed). That's it. Not to mention "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to the [proxy data]...to hide the decline." Under the circumstances, I declare that this does not lend itself to a free market solution, because it is bunk and hokey-pokey with a view to scaring people into submission to statism.
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        • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
          We have been asking for more energy efficient appliances, light bulbs, cars, even a demand for electric cars. Solar panels, etc. if we demand it, the market will supply it.
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          • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
            I'll grant this much: end users have a desire to avoid waste. But the neo-Luddite AGW alarmists concern themselves with more than mere waste. They regard any economic activity at all, especially if it involves fossil fuel use at any level, as contributing to a planet-wide disaster--if I may use an ancient term, a cataclysm--a Mother of All Storms. How does humoring such people comport with free-market philosophy?
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            • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
              I agree with you there. But there's always extremist. Lets face it, they do drive the demand by the rest of the population. They won't get what they want.
              Call the ones influenced by those extremist sheep but is catering to their wants so bad if it drives innovation and helps the economy?
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              • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
                It is, if instead it drives statism. Innovative, waste-avoiding or even waste-recovering technologies are one thing. Commands to cease and desist from economic activity, and to jam ourselves into ultra-dense cities with an ostensible view to "conserving power," are quite another.

                The neo-Luddites do, however, have one weakness. They don't believe it themselves. With rare exception, you don't see them turning in their car keys or selling their single-family residences (often on vast lots having two acres or more) and moving into apartments. Even penthouses don't seem good enough for them. Until they start paying any of the price they demands others pay, they'll never get universal acceptance. But if what you say is correct, then Ed Begley, Jr. (Living With Ed) will accomplish far more, by his own example, than the neo-Luddites can ever hope to accomplish.
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                • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
                  I do think someone like Ed.Begley has an effect. he shows it can be easy and not inconvenient (other than peddling a bike to make toast).
                  I hear you on the rest. I work with a greenie, buys into GW, and then goes out for lunch every day.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 2 months ago
      I also believe that the globe may be warming, because this happens over geological ages. The idea that man contributes more than a negligible part of the cause is just silly.

      But the important part of that belief chain is what you think should be done about it. And there Johnson is on the right side. If we need to cool the earth, Gregory Benford's boatload of iron filings will do the trick. If we need to warm it up, there are similarly easy and fast ways. All of them much cheaper and more sensible than ordering everybody to curtail building homes and driving cars.
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      • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
        Funny. I never heard Gary Johnson say a thing about what's to be done about it. And the only solution I ever heard was to tell everybody to curtail building homes and driving cars.
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        • Posted by lrshultis 10 years, 2 months ago
          What makes you think that something has to be done about it? The Earth, in its ice age, has been in cycles of glaciation with short interglacial warming periods in between for a million years or so. It is near the end of an interglacial period. Do you have any evidence that the glacial cycles have ended and that the present interglacial period of the ice age will continue to warm for many thousands of years?
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          • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 2 months ago
            Actually, I'm not the one making the claim. I'm only telling you what those neo-Luddite clowns are saying. They who pull "Mike Nature trick...to hide the decline."
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  • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
    Here's the problem with this Gary Johnson bit - he hitched his wagon to the Libertarians which are all over legalizing Marijuana. We do business in Colorado and I have a lot of friends there, all that is on the news is the surge of obesity, higher unemployment, and a huge spike in DUI arrests since legalization there. Trying to get it passed again in Colorado for example, would be pretty tough to do in terms of getting votes from people that don't partake in that stuff. The public services costs alone have drowned out the tax yield of it. Lets face it, pretty hard to hold down more than a Wendy's job if you are getting stoned every night..

    Legalization of marijuana is popular with the Millennials (about half), but is very unpopular with Gen X - at most, it's 20% support, we were raised in the times and aftermath of what brought about the war on drugs - huge murder rates that were 700-1000% what they are today. We all know Boomers will vote for dope, but not actually in huge numbers and they are starting to go into nursing homes anyway - it might draw 25-30% support there.

    Here's the rub, it's an issue that is NOT popular among Republican voters, so something close to 10% of Gen X Republicans for example will vote for it, where it is much more popular with the poor / people on public assistance / liberals / etc. - which are Democrats anyway and not likely to support much of the other things on the Libertarian platform and you can squeeze a liberal Democrat for pot-rights anyway. Where they might get a few votes is the Democrat that is opposed to the Hillary anti-2nd-Amendment philosophy and stated goals.

    Do I hope he does well in the election? Yeah, because his pot thing will hurt the Democrats much more than it hurts Republicans to be sure. He might very well draw a lot of Millennials that are not to enthused to vote for Hillary anyway after Bernie drops out...
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
      "Lets face it, pretty hard to hold down more than a Wendy's job if you are getting stoned every night.."
      I don't agree with the claim, but even if it were true, people don't have a responsibility to get a job beyond Wendy's if they don't want to.
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    • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
      I think there are more then 10% of Repub's that wold support decriminalizing pot. They really dont care anymore. As for the bad rpeorts from Colo? Won't hear it. Dems love pot, Calif has it on the ballot this november, MSM will provide cover.
      Add to that, better than 50% chance, Obama take Marijuana of the Sched 1 list of narcotics on his why out. We had problems with alcohol to, will get through potheads driving while toking.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
        It's still DWI. you only have to help scrape a baby off the inside of the car windshield but then why would this society give a second thought to that little 'unintended' consequence. Just think of it as the late term abortion that didn't get you the first time around kid. not the tokers, no drinkers, or whatever whoevers fault nor problem. They weren't doing nuthin.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
        The other reason is that, for example, in Colorado it is well-established that state law has nothing to do with federal law or employer policies. If your employer has a zero-tolerance for doping and does random drug testing, it matters zero that it's a 'legal' activity, if you test positive, you can be terminated for it. Anyone that works for the federal government, or in any kind of research / medical / environmental / military / etc program funded by the federal government is also prohibited.

        If we make the assumption that Republicans tend to be anti-tax because they 'pay taxes' and have incomes that are in the upper 50% of society to require them to actually 'pay taxes', then most often the jobs that generate the income to pay taxes are going to also prohibit that kind of activity.

        I'm sure people are going to freak out about that concept, but in Colorado and California, both at-will employment states, people can be terminated for no reason at all, so how is it a stretch to include a zero-tolerance policy? Answer: it isn't. The employee's choice is always to go work somewhere else if they don't like it.
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      • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
        Millions of innocent victims died 'getting through' the driving while intoxicated issues. The same people regularly partaking in pot smoking are probably the same ones with the state-mandated minimums for car insurance and don't have much for assets either, so the victims will probably just get screwed.

        As for legalization in California, it's on the ballot here every few years, always seems to fail. Last time I checked, it had not yet gathered enough signatures to make it on the ballot - which is only about 1/20th of the voter base. With something like 1200 amendments to the state constitution here, getting something on the ballot is pretty easy to do, I could probably get a state holiday for my dog's birthday if I wanted to spend the $4 per 600,000 signatures it takes to get it on the ballot.

        And no, I'm not speculating on the percentages, I looked up the poll numbers. Those are the hard numbers.

        California doesn't really enforce laws that are anything below assault/battery or robbery or manslaughter, as Moonbeam Brown diminished everything else to pretty much just a citation. The cities enforce speeding tickets because they get revenue for that, but for most anything else, it's not even enforced anymore. One would think you would see potheads running wild in the streets, and probably do in some areas, but at least here in Placer County where 9.73% are military veterans and 69% are Republicans, it seems like the only ones running around with pot are the young-ones and obviously visitors to the lakes & recreation areas.
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        • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
          It's more about decriminalizing it. It would save the tax payers a lot to not have to pay to keep these people in prison. They may very well be tax paying citizens. The war on drugs is a big fail and is costing us on both ends of the equation
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          • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
            We don't imprison anyone in California for marijuana, heroine/meth/etc. yes. Considering what those things do to people, and I have first-hand observational knowledge, there is no upside to society for allowing it.
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            • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
              Johnson isn't asking to legalize them.
              Other than that, good for California. They had to stop imprisoning them because of overcrowding. Other states do imprison them. Further, there are still a lot of people being imprisoned for possession over more the just a little weed. And, is it better to imprison a heroin user, or put them into treatment? I'll bet treatment is cheaper.
              I'm not condoning drugs at all. But, the fact is, whatever someone wants to shoot, snort, smoke, rub into there belly, or put up their butt is no ones business as long as they don't infringe on someone else's liberties. At least admit the war on drugs has failed and is a waste of our tax dollars.
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              • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
                I"m more of the mindset that they get nothing if they choose that lifestyle, prison for depriving someone else of their civil rights (which is normally the outcome when they run out of money to get their drugs with) - break into someone's house, go to jail, I don't care about the 'motivation'. Break into the wrong person's house when they are home, problem is solved anyway.

                I'm not in favor of using tax dollars to the tune of $150,000 to $300,000 a year to put them in 'treatment' either. The best medicine seems to be hitting rock-bottom, homeless, no family left, etc.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
                Using maybe.. selling or transporting for sale? This may surprise you. If there were no customers their would be no sales. If there were no sales there would be no growers. Who is more guilty the raghead in the middle east or campesino in Bolivia who gets pennies. the transporter manufacturer who gets more than Exxon international annually, or the customer most of whom are found in USA and Canada. The most idiotic move was third strike incarceration for use of pot. But as for the rest I'm in favor of the fly swatter. Not going to stop other flies who bother my picket but guaranteed one good swat will stop that fly whose name I didn't bother to learn. Swat swat swat or those three. Humanoid flies? Who knows might work. But never for revenge, retraining, or any of that other social science BS,. Swat swat swat swat. Four more. WHAMMO....got a mid size politician with that one.
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                • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
                  marijuana is Mexico's top export. Imagine if that were all grown here?
                  As long as it's not refined, processed, who care what another person ingests.
                  The problem is, we have this half hearted attempt and stopping drug producers.
                  Our gov't feeds both sides of that problem.
                  Fact is, there are some Europeans countries that have legalized pot and it has reduced crime, and harder drug use.
                  Why is pot any different than tobacco, or alcohol?
                  I'm only talking pot. Any other drugs are all refined and processed and I do believe they need to be controlled. If it's nature, and you want to sprinkle it on your salad - go for it.
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
                    top export to USA. It is not the top export. They do a lot of industrial manufacturing like Ford and Chrysler products world wide. The big deal with Kasich who made the deal and Trump who claimed it only pertained to vehicles for the USA which is all they are giving up in that area. Also VW and Nissan and major size passenger long distance busses for Mercedes. The only difference is a huge ready customer base in New Amsterdam (North America). That's USA problem. Like others they trade heavily with China and SE Asia. and that auto manufacturing move is not a done deal until you see a factory in Michigan or Wisconsin or where ever.

                    Exports of of marijuana have dropped rapidly since the USA has it's own grow ops in what four states now and looks like production is far more than four states would use. Got to be going somewhere.
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    • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
      You seem to view the drug legalization issue solely through the lens of who has or will use the drugs in question. Have you ever viewed it as an issue of individual freedom? I have never used marijuana but I strongly support your right to grow, sell, purchase or use it just as I support your right to sell, transport or partake of alcohol.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
        yes and I view alcohol and nicotine as a drug and drugs as WMD. Next question?
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        • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
          Next question is: Do you favor criminalization of alcohol and cigarettes?
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
            No. But I don't excuse what they are. Only a subjectivist could make that unwarranted leap of ...non faith. I would support banning sugar laden cereals from advertising for Saturday morning cartoons same as tobacco products are banned from advertising in adult sports. THAT is criminal.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
          aniy economists ever figure out what diverting all the drug sales money from the economy would or could do if diverted back into the economy? Kind of like a tax isn't it? Costs a lot, produces nothing but further expense. swat swat swat
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      • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
        As someone that does some occasional home-brew of beer, I have to admit, I would be very leery of letting people brew it up randomly and distribute without adherence to health/safety. It's very easy to brew a very toxic substance if someone doesn't know what their doing, sadly, few do very well in chemistry class.
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        • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
          So you should be arrested for your "occasional" brewing? And do you think that a black market in marijuana provides better quality control?
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
            Is this leading somewhere besides uncontrolled drugs for all ages? Or is it just another spotted owl strategy from David Atkins?
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
              Starting to sound like a shill for the cartels and I don't mean those south of the border.
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              • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                I don't know what a spotted owl strategy is. I don't know who David Atkins is. I don't know which cartel you are referring to. I do know that creating a black market by criminalization does not lead to better quality unadulterated products.
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
                  How many years out of school? Two three four. no I'm speaking of the Tree Huggers, But it doesn't matter since it's leading nowhere. time to leave you befuddled and get back to real life.
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                  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                    I've been out of school since 1976. I do recall that "tree hugger" is a pejorative term for an environmentalist. Defining terms is always good practice. Thanks for your comments about the drug war.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
                      thirteen years makes a difference I reckon I learned from living in the middle of it the prime protection areas for the tree huggers were exactly the same area used for the then illegal pot industry of Southern Oregon and true Northern California. Organizations such as Headwaters who featured their own mountain myth some dude from New Jersey under the name Old Man Of The Mountains. All quite picturesque.

                      D. Atkins a local boy turned Birkenstock Lawyer initially gave a lot of time to the effort while his sister and her husband ran a tree cutting operation. Another story. Some years went by and we heard he was involved in a start up farm land leasing something or other. Then one day pot became legal in Oregon. Most of the growers moved down into the farm lands and word had it if they couldn't or hadn't bought land were leasing it.

                      Looks like Davey had brought sharecropping to the pot industry. thus the Capitalist Cartel. Also hear they don't cotton to no illegal growers har de har har all of a sudden and along with Northern California have a thriving export business to the not so enlightened states.

                      So where did altruist Davey get the cash to buy the land - remember it was being californicated from breakfast to supper.

                      All those voluntary hours weren't. They won the spotted owl law suit - who were happily living in KMart Signs and such all over the place - Davey presented the losing side, your government and mine, were presented with his bill. The amounts very but Davey isn't poor anymore. The rest of us paid the bills through our taxes.

                      Headwaters apparently disappeared having no use for land protection racketeering anymore but that could be wrong there are always scams such as global warming.

                      There you have the makings of another epic by Al Bore Productions. I give you Davey and the Capitalist Cartel!

                      PD they have some great wineries in that area, their own appelation and a host of micro breweries.

                      They are also a prime retirement bedroom area for the Californicators.

                      Thus ends, the true ending of the Oregon Trail Saga.
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          • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
            Brewing at home is completely legal if for personal consumption. It's illegal to sell.

            I don't think any market for narcotics that leave a lasting effect on the body makes any sense. To each their own, but like I said, drive while using it needs to result in significant jail time, hurt or kill someone and it needs to be lifetime imprisonment to make sure it doesn't happen. Someone else's poor choices shouldn't be everyone else's risk.
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            • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
              You only get jail if you sell your brew to me. That's what you support, right? As to DUI, I think we agree except your punishment seems a bit harsh. If any injury ensues you favor life imprisonment. Am I reading that right?
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              • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
                Yes, absolutely.

                My stance on brews is that if you are not absolutely perfectly clean, bacteria is introduced during the 6 week fermentation process, feed that to someone that is unsuspecting and it can kill them. Letting Joe-Blow randomly brew some beer up and sell to strangers makes no sense. I don't have a problem with the health department ensuring their processes and cleanliness are fine. Generally, you can't make cookies in the kitchen with cats running across the counter either.

                I've had food-borne illness too often traveling in other countries, etc.. no need for that shit here to placate someones desire for unlimited freedoms. It comes down to the rights of others and the public (to not be poisoned).
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                • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                  Your position seems to be that criminalizing the manufacture and sale of a substance enhances purity and assures that nobody will get adulterated products. The history of alcohol prohibition and the drug war proves the opposite to be the case.
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                  • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
                    The prohibition era manufacture was pretty much taken up by a combination of former legal manufacturers, liquor imported from Canada/Mexico/Cuba, and organized crime of course. The latter didn't really care about the skill set of the people brewing up the alcohol.

                    For example. you wouldn't can your own tomatoes if you had no idea what you were doing, as a hobby, my wife teaches food preservation on an outreach program for the UC, and something like 50-70% of the people that take her course (and actually have experience) do things that they learned from grandma or whatever and are absolutely dangerous. Sometimes she will take a sample of what they canned (before the class) and show the results - horrifying... so they start paying attention.

                    Brewing and bottling beer is no different, it's encouraging the growth of healthy bacteria which consume the yeast and expel alcohol as a byproduct. If you encourage or introduce the wrong bacteria for example through stupidity or failure to eliminate 100% of the germs on every single thing in the room/air/surfaces/pots/utensils... then you could easily create a perfect environment for other common household germs to take root - botulism, salmonella, etc. If you want to brew it up and drink your own poison, I have no issue with it, your debate point was being free to sell it at the farmer's market or whatever. My point was, only after certification of cleanliness and process. Beer is intentionally a rather pungent tasting liquid, having it full of bacteria may not necessarily dissuade someone from drinking it.

                    I did a paper on it in grad school actually, in the lowest year during prohibition, around 13,000 died from consuming infested alcohol, it caused a condition call 'Jake Foot', blindness, paralysis, and even death. 100s of thousands fell seriously ill, something in the millions had a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge...
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      • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
        Hemp production could generate millions. It can be used to make fabric and plastic. Which would also go to reducing our dependency on foreign oil, and would also impact climate change for the greenies.
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        • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
          That's not my reasoning. If it were worthless I would still support your right to produce it.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
            Could, would and should does not put food on the table nor turn Oregon back into a net energy exporters instead of debtor importer. Good ole subjectivism takes another nose dive.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
            and my right to sue the crap out of you for sellling me a worthless product? Now you sound like an apologists for a politician.
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            • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
              If I made a false representation regarding value or quality or failed to honor a warranty of course you could sue. Unless of course the prohibitionists continued to make our exchange illegal. Then the courts are closed to you and force is your only remedy.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
    you have got to consider the source of the website posting the questions and results...it is slanted to get you to agree with socialists/facsists to normalize your acceptance of the far left's ideas and positions...
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
      I took that test.. I wound up with 96% Trump, who I am not very enthused with and consider to be a loose cannon.
      I have a trust issue over what this "deal maker" will really do should he be voted into office.
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      • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
        you are wise...Trump is a creation of the times..no philosophy...total pragmatist and opportunist...he is the ultimate deal maker...regardless of who suffers or gets hurt...Obama and Bush have offerred him the opportunity to be President...it fits his ego and desires...
        i sent him an email "Manifesto for Job Growth and Economic Liberty"...never got a reply...
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
          Hi, I'm Donald Trump. Trump. Some call me The Donald. I am Donald. Donald Trump.
          Mia sent this email. I got this email. He asked a question. I got a question with this email he sent.
          He never got a reply. I never sent a reply. No, I never sent it. That email. That reply I never sent.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
      Hey good comment mia767 I thought so to so I went on the attack again. Proving impairment is a lot easier and I would have no problem sending the morons to prison for killing a kid. Driving While Impaired or Driving Under Influence works for me. Driving while Intoxicated is not necessary. What is MADs view on this subject?
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      • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
        freedom is a two-edged sword that cuts both ways...you are free to be responsible or otherwise, but you are always held responsible for the consequences of your actions...i do not the offical MAD position on DUI, but i suspect it holds you responsible for your actions...
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        • Posted by Dobrien 10 years, 2 months ago
          Here here A is A, responsiblity for peoples sociopathic actions and behaviors is selective at best for the D.O.J. of today.

          MAD as I understand it , has championed stiff consequences for fatal reckless and stupid behavior.
          BTW: a nod of sorrow and sincere condolences to any parent who has lost a child to a drunk driver.
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          • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
            as it should be....i would also like to see more retribution for the loss suffered...you take a life for DUI...you pay for the rest of your life...although any amount of money cannot replace a life taken thru irresponsibility...
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
    This reminds me of how the moderators at one of the debates read a passage critical of a maverick candidate's positions, implying the passage referred to Trump. After Trump responded, they revealed the quote had actually been about Sanders. It's like ah-ha-ah-ha; we made you look like an ass, as if Trump agreeing on some issues with Sanders made them the same.

    I like that Johnson agrees with Sanders. Maybe that will help him win. Any criticism of Johnson not being libertarian enough IMHO should always compare him to one of the other candidates on the ballot in all states. There's no point in comparing him to a hypothetical pure candidate who is not on the ballot.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
    i question Gary Johnson's reasoning abilities not to figure that out on his own...
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 10 years, 2 months ago
      He is being honest. You don't mean "reasoning" abilities, you mean cleverness at spin. Johnson has integrity.
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      • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
        it makes me wonder about him...i would think he would first qualify any "likeness" with fascist/socialist individuals as being on a different moral foundation, so that assumptions are not implied or guessed at...
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        • Posted by $ puzzlelady 10 years, 2 months ago
          Johnson is agreeing with the socially liberal, the individual freedom aspects of the liberals Sanders also espouses, not with his "socialist" goals.
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          • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
            there are no "liberals" in the 19th & early 20th century sense of the word...they use that to cover the fact that they are totalitarians...Johnson needs to understand that and differentiate himself from them...he needs to label them as they are...totalitarians...and not find common ground with their lies and deception...he does great harm to himself and the libertarian movement...Sanders and Hillary do not espouse freedom only slavery...he needs to make that very clear...failing that, he is a failure...and it is why Sanders, Hillary, and all the other democrat/republicans have succeeded and will continue to succeed...stop them now...or we will all suffer the consequences...
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Let me get this straight. You think that all or most of the millions of casual marijuana users over the decades have become addicted and/or moved on to harder stuff (you being an exception of course). Really? Care to share some statistics (not stories) supporting that remarkable assertion?
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
      I do not think most of CASUAL marijuana users get a addicted to anything..
      You have jumped to a remarkable conclusion.
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      • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
        You are correct. That was my point. And yet you want to criminalize their behavior.
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
          No, some are nice people.
          I would by far rather stop the criminal traffickers such as the cartels, street gangs, motorcycle gangs, profiteering crooks et als.
          I have an ex-sister-in-law who has a son sired by the son of Mafia boss in Birmingham, AL.
          She said running drugs was openly discussed at the boss's dinner table with her sitting right there.
          She later had a girl by another guy that she married, but he died young due to messing with drugs. Then she lost her girl due to her own dope induced behavior.
          Now she lives with a Greek who escaped what the USA is becoming.
          The girl is now 13 and is being raised by my stepson who my ex-sister-in-law hates along with my ex.
          The girl wound up with my stepson after she went crying to my ex around the age of 8, talking about illegal drugs and used condoms in the house.
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          • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
            Funny how there are practically no "criminal traffickers" or rights violating criminal activity associated with the production and sale of alcohol while, as you note, violent activity is rampant in the black market illegal drug trade. I suggest this difference is caused by the very criminalization you support.
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            • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
              Moonshine stills are still being blown up in Alabama dry counties. I was a newspaper reporter in one of those during the 70s.
              I'd photograph gallons of hooch being poured down a storm drain but I always managed to have some beer in the house.
              Another day I walked with deputies through a marijuana field with stalks twice as tall as me.
              I had no idea they grew that high.
              I recall the time an ABC agent shook my hand beside the Bibb County Courthouse. I found a wad of pot planted in the palm of my hand.
              When it dried out, I put it in a pipe and smoked it.
              Maybe you should do the same, chill out and not worry about what some old dino thinks.
              Do believe my "stories" define who I am and this crap is getting tiresome.
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              • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                I did say "practically no" incidents mindful of the few remaining alcohol violators because the dry counties keep the black market alive. Don't mean to tire you. Have a nice night.
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  • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
    I am really a bit taken back by all the pundits, and even commentators here pontificating on what a candidate should or should not do to appeal to any group or groups.

    This is another reason I am supporting Trump. Trump is laying it out there saying, THIS IS ME!! THIS IS WHAT I THINK. THIS IS WHAT I STAND FOR. I am successful because I do what I say. If you like it great vote for me, if not go suck it.

    I am sick of politicians pandering for votes, instead of presenting their view and saying if you agree with enough of my view then vote for me, if not there are other candidates.

    STOP THE PANDERING.
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    • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
      I don't think Gary is pandering. He is what he says he is. AND, he has a track record to show it.
      Trump, actually sort of moves with the wind. He says over the top conservative oriented statements, then spends the next 2 days semi-back peddling. I'd call that pandering.
      He has no views other than what draws crowds.
      I've read his book, there really is no "there", there.
      I've read Johnson's books.There is a philosophy, and logic to his thinking. Trump has no philosophy other than it makes Conservatives cheer.
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      • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
        Build Wall
        Build Military
        STOP Illegal immigration
        Stop unvetted Muslims from coming here. (All are unvetted since you cannot verify anything)
        At the core the same message he says and repeats and does not apologize, nor does he pander to the groups to "gain votes."

        Even if the "PERFECT" President was elected it will take 20 years to unwind this statist government back to where we were 200 years ago, assuming everyone worked together for it. Simply due to the complexities of regulations and how intertwined everything is. Unwinding will take time.
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        • Posted by RobertFl 10 years, 2 months ago
          He is pandering. He is saying what that core voting block wants to hear to get him nominated.
          There won't be a wall. Mexico is not going to pay for it. The man wants Tariffs - won't happen. Watch his tune change after he's nominated. And, should he get elected, see how none of his want-list gets addressed.
          My pet peev is the debt - and no one is talking about that - other than Johnson.
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          • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
            I agree except I am afraid that there will be tariffs and perhaps a trade war if Trump is elected.
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            • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
              First, Fair Trade vs. Free Trade are two entirely different things.

              There is no free trade when our products are tariffed at 20 - 50% going into other countries.

              This is why the corporate inversion. When Nabisco can move a plant to Mexico, product their product and not have any tariff in China, vs. a 45% tariff from the USA they will move to Mexico. That is the way of the capitalist.

              Balance of scales is required. Trump has alluded to this numerous times, but like any good chess player is not going to tell you his next ten moves.

              If you tariff me 45% we tariff you 45%. That is what was alluded to. You tariff us ZERO we tariff you ZERO.

              Cruz made a completely stupid argument on the tariff discussion when he told Trump.."..when diapers from china go up 45% you are going to hurt the middle class..." My answer to that is, tell that to the people from Carrier, Nabisco, Ford, HP, IBM that have been outsourced who have NO job to pay for diapers regardless of price.


              Next, our Corporate tax and massive regulations are the other thing that drives out jobs. Trump understand exactly what is NEEDED to fix the system. Perot said this in a debate with Clinton and Bush when he talked about that giant sucking sound.

              Perot was RIGHT then, and Trump knows that NOW.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1...
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              • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                OK, if I understand what you are saying you are urging matching of tariffs. That is what is generally referred to as a trade war. In that instance the consumers on both sides suffer. Our tariffs on all items should be zero. If another country wants to impose tariffs it will punish their own citizens and our exporters. But our citizens will be able to buy imported goods cheaper. Leaving aside the fact that taxation, including tariffs, amount to theft and are immoral, in this context they do not work to the benefit of anyone when a trade war is declared.
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                • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
                  They may suffer until "balance" is achieved. It really hurts to rip off a bandaid too, but that does not mean you can avoid doing it.

                  So I am guessing you are all on board with the USA suffering while every other country just uses their protectionist tactics to screw us and drive our country into financial oblivion, and get companies to relocate jobs outside the USA? Keep in mind with no jobs, welcome to Venezuela. The USA has inside its borders virtually ALL the resources we need and really do not "need? other countries. I am not saying be isolationist just pointing our they need us. We do not need them..

                  So please enlighten me on just you would propose to get china, mexico, japan and every other country to just play fair and equitably?
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                  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                    The "balance" of which you speak means that all consumers, manufacturers, exporters and importers in all countries suffer equally under high tariffs.. Only governments temporarily gain through huge revenues until everyone wises up and trade seizes up. Then we all make our own cars, televisions and t-shirts inefficiently and expensively. That is the North Korean model. So wonderful for all, comrade. Instead I would go to zero tariffs so we could be flooded by cheap goods. If others wish to punish their citizens and keep high tariffs there is nothing we can do other than be sympathetic to them. Kim Il Un will never learn so his people will suffer indefinitely unless they overthrow him. As to the myth of no US manufacturing jobs, remember that only China (with four times the populace) has more manufacturing than the US. We equal the next four countries in the world. In non-manufacturing jobs we are untouchable, of course.
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                    • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
                      Again. We already impose virtually ZERO tariffs on other countries. So your dream is already true. Now please enlighten me on how to get OTHER sovereign countries to do the same?

                      Your dream you speak of is not Objectivist "value for value", your stated action is the USA sacrifice ourselves for the good of others which is NOT objectivist at all but altruistic, or as Ayn put it EVIL.

                      If you hit me with a stick, and I hit you back harder, eventually you will STOP hitting me. Also who cares how cheap products are that come here if you have no job with which to earn the money to buy the cheap products with.

                      Keep telling that to the laid off employees of Ford, Nabisco, Carrier, and all the other companies that have taken millions of jobs out of this country leaving our people with nothing but welfare and unemployment.

                      Not only because of cheaper labor, and fewer regulations, but the markets that impose massive tariffs on US-made products. Ford can move to Mexico, make the SAME Chevy Impala, and pay ZERO tariff when they sell to China but get a 45% tariff when the car comes from the USA. They move to Mexico, The issues are naturally more complex but tariffs are a huge part of the issue.

                      Here is a list of companies that have left the USA for greener pastures for reasons of taxes, regulations, and tariffs they do not have to deal with elsewhere.

                      http://markmartinezshow.blogspot.com/...
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                      • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                        A couple of points: First, you seem to think governments are people who need to hit each other with sticks. You also seem to think that governments produce or own the goods which are traded on the international market. Both these concepts are wrong headed. The tariffs you speak of are government taxes on the otherwise willing trade between individuals and companies that actually produce and want to trade with one another. I did not call for any sacrifice at all. I call for government getting out of the way of free trade. Finally, the fact that other countries are much worse on this issue does not mean that our government should follow suit or up the ante until all trade is prohibited (the logical consequence of your stick hitting strategy). As for your suggestion that we should study economics more, I would recommend Mises (greatly admired by Rand) and Rothbard on the tariff issue.
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                        • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
                          I am going to specifically address how you completely misinterpret anything posted. I will also break down your faulty reasoning on my previous post.

                          YOU: A couple of points: First, you seem to think governments are people who need to hit each other with sticks.

                          REPLY: No place did I state they "NEED" to hit each other with sticks. I stated and implied that if you hit me I will hit you back harder to teach you to NOT DO THAT!!!. The United States needs to start HITTING BACK HARD and FAST in order to get these people to the table to negotiate FAIR trade. Be it totally free or protectionist between countries but trade needs to be an equitable 2 way street. If China, for example, did not add 100 - 225% tariffs on OUR products there would be no need to smack them down. Pacifism is contrary to objectivism since being pacifist does not provide value for value, it promotes self-sacrifice and altruism.

                          YOU: You also seem to think that governments produce or own the goods which are traded on the international market.
                          REPLY: NEVER in any post EVER have I ever stated or implied in any way shape or form Government produces anything. If I have please show me specifically because I mistyped. PERIOD!!! The government specifically the United States Government in the Constitution is and should be ONLY subsidized by tariffs.
                          Please read up on the history of Income Tax. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A000592...
                          1913, the 16th Amendment made Income tax permanent, and thus started the downward spiral of Statism and Government control through levies on individuals. Prior the income tax was used to fund war efforts like the Civil war and was meant to be temporary.
                          Income tax in any form is nothing short of looting by statists.

                          YOU: The tariffs you speak of are government taxes on the otherwise willing trade between individuals and companies that actually produce and want to trade with one another.
                          REPLY: Within the United States Constitution at the founding of this country Tariffs were supposed to be the ONLY real means of funding the limited government the founders intended.

                          YOU: I did not call for any sacrifice at all.
                          Actually in your statement that WE should have zero tariffs while everyone else uses tariffs to prohibit or form trade barriers is indeed demanding sacrifice. Again economics 101. When profits are easier elsewhere, businesses flow like water, to the path of least resistance. Add the tariffs every other country imposes on the United States vs. every other country and you see a totally concerted effort to tear down this exceptional country by the rest of the world. Our supposed leaders are just too damn stupid to use the sticks we have to beat everyone back into FAIR trade for fear of offending someone. Sure there might be some pain in the short term, but when every other country suffers famine and we do not, they will either shape up or try to attack us for our resources, at which point we will do to them what we did to Germany in WWII.

                          YOU: I call for government getting out of the way of free trade.
                          REPLY: I do not disagree, however, please still tell me how you plan on getting ALL other sovereign nations to do the same? Please do tell. I would love you to give me the solution. Other than Tariffs, or invasion.

                          YOU: Finally, the fact that other countries are much worse on this issue does not mean that our government should follow suit or up the ante until all trade is prohibited (the logical consequence of your stick hitting strategy).
                          REPLY: Now you are hitting on the antithesis of Objectivism and promoting the self-sacrifice you said you did not promote.
                          When attacked you do not turn the other cheek and say "Thank you, Sir...May I have another." You react to stop their bad behavior regardless of the pain and suffering the other country might face. That is not our concern, nor should we really care. I quote Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged when Philip told his brother Hank. "You really do not care about the less fortunate do you?"
                          Hank. "No, No I do not."

                          YOU: As for your suggestion that we should study economics more, I would recommend Mises (greatly admired by Rand) and Rothbard on the tariff issue.

                          Edited to correct a couple typos
                          REPLY: And they are wrong. I think the founding fathers of this country were FAR smarter than the others and placed tariffs as one of the many tools of Government to deal with other nations.
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                    • Posted by Hot_Black_Desiato 10 years, 2 months ago
                      https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=car

                      USA imposes mostly free or no tariff, then less than 6.5% in most all cases.

                      China imposes in many cases 100% or more tariffs on products entering their country. They impose NO tariff on products made in China or in some other countries. I suggest you study economics a bit more, and look at the WTO trade and tariff schedules to see just who is practicing this free trade and who is not.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 2 months ago
    So I'm not sure I can agree with the survey itself. There are a lot of these questions where my stated position is equated to Trump's position even though he has come out in his statements saying something very different...

    I know I'm going to disagree with Clinton and Sanders nearly 100%, but 87% with Trump? Not buying it...
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  • Posted by fivedollargold 10 years, 2 months ago
    Is this the same pothead whose party had a guy strip on stage?
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
      Saw "stupid" strip in a disgusting video last week.
      It provided me the proverbial last straw for considering the Libertarian Party for a presidential vote this time around.
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      • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
        The party did not "ha[ve] a guy strip." He did it on his own to loud boos. An unfortunate and unforeseeable incident. The LP lost your vote solely over that event? Are you going to vote for Kim Il Clinton or Benito Trump because of that alone?
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
          Of course they will and while I'm at it who can recite what it was Weld said verbatim without looking it up? I can't and I actually read over it and said, ho hum, he needs to rethink that choice. It made no greater impact than exactly that. But the Carvillests among us sucked it right up. there one belief inability to change my way or the highway gave Carville and company there greatest win as consultants for the Socialists ever. Like the Demos there is sacred ground and their is hee haw stupidity.
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
          You've never heard of the proverbial "The straw that broke the camel's back?"
          It takes many, many straws to break a camel's back.
          I was already pretty much buh-bye I'm out of here when I saw that.
          I'd rather "cop a dirt nap" than vote for Evil Cackles.
          Afraid I'll either "roll the bones" for him who speaks like a "skipping record" who looks like a "bad hair day" or just "shuck it" and "chill."
          Or I could always write in "Who is John Galt?
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          • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
            That was a pretty small straw so you must have been right on the verge. What were the major issue based straws that put you in that position?
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            • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
              I began to turn on Johnson when he chose his running mate,

              https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

              I am against legalizing pot and any politician who believes in man-made global warming.
              And now he agrees with a Bolshevik Bernie 73% of the time? A Libertarian would say that?
              Maybe that was why 73% of my gut was already telling me to ditch this loser days ago.
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              • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                You support the war on drugs and yet claim it is Johnson who is not Libertarian enough. Hmmm.
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                • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
                  To hell with Johnson being anything enough.
                  He even looks too dopey to be electable if you want to get ad hominem about it.
                  My war on drugs?
                  Back in the 70s there was girl I dated who started to smoke pot. In fact, she did not want to do anything else save for staying home..
                  I watched her turn into a completely different person within two weeks.
                  Previously I had really gotten to like her, but now she got so dull and freaking boring I went looking for other fish in the sea. .
                  Later I heard she got raped by her drug dealer.
                  My grown bachelor son hates illegal drugs due to his own experiences with people
                  Hopefully, when he's out in his car he won't get collided by some by some doped up dude coming the other way.
                  I used to have a co-worker who was manslaughtered just that way.
                  I have an ex who, my wife at the time, wound up unharmed yet upside-down along with my car thanks to a druggie.
                  Oh, that ex is my dope-hating son's mother, by the way.
                  That "victim-less crime" keeps striking innocent bystanders again and again.
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                  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                    Bring back alcohol prohibition!
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                    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
                      Hell, no. Liquor is quicker. And legal.
                      Call a taxi or have a designated driver.
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                      • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                        Why should it be legal? I knew a guy who drank all the time and lost his job . . . I knew a woman who drove drunk and killed someone . . . I knew a guy who died a premature death because of cirossis of the liver . . . I knew a college student who died of alcohol poisoning . . . I knew a woman, well you get the point. Death to all drinkers, right?
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                        • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
                          You want me to shoot myself.
                          Long time ago I experimented with weed and one of my brothers got seriously stung out on dope for a while back in the late 60s.
                          That same brother is now an executive for an insurance company and loves his daily bottle and/or bottles of beer and stores all kinds of wine.
                          There is a big difference between dope and alcohol beverages.
                          I classify tobacco products as dope. Kicking a nicotine addiction is the hardest thing I ever did. In that sense Old Dino was a drug addict.
                          Booze just doesn't reach out and addict people the same way as addictive drugs.
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                          • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                            I don't want you to shoot yourself, Dino. I was being sarcastic. Sorry if that was lost. Do you really think that marijuana is more "addictive" than nicotine or alcohol?
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                            • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
                              I know that it turns me into a giggling idiot if I'm passing it around with a group.
                              I've read that kicking a nicotine habit is harder than cocaine.
                              I've both read and seen people into pot move on to harder stuff that has killed off some of my favorite rock stars.
                              The latest example being Prince (opiates in his dead system) wasn't a favorite, though I liked that Purple Rain song.
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                              • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 2 months ago
                                You know, of course, that there are tens of millions of past and present marijuana users who have not become "addicted" and who have not "move[d] on to harder stuff" (like you, for instance), right? The vast majority of cocaine and heroin users first used alcohol. Do you think that makes alcohol the "gateway" drug to "harder stuff"? If so, should we criminalize alcohol (again)? Prince apparently died from a fentanyl overdose. Do we know enough about Prince's personal history to draw any conclusions from that?
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                                • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
                                  No.
                                  2. No.
                                  3. No.
                                  But O'Riley on Fox recently opened his Factor show by stating that drug-related bad stuff like traffic accidents in Colorado are statistically spiking.
                                  So I'm still not swayed.
                                  You would not believe how many times I tried to get that top line to appear as~
                                  1. No.
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                                  • jabuttrick replied 10 years, 2 months ago
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
    I found myself about 10% in that camp but in thinking back the questions allowed an additional opinion qualifier and mine were all heavily restricted for one requiring the ability to pay (No Funding No Mandate Rule) and the other restricted to those who truly could not care for themselves or had no immediate family members. Not feeling like taking a job and other forms of moocherism was always required. but 73% is a bit high for my liking.
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
    Could you imagine how the press would treat John Galt as a candidate? Look what they do to Trump at every turn. They ignore Sanders, and only pump up Hildebeast. This election stuff is BS
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
    To the supporters of Johnson, I would just say- "what did you expect?" John Galt would never even want the presidency at this time in our history, and he would NEVER be elected.

    Johnson will never be elected either. It was stupid of him to say he agreed with Sanders 73% of the time, except perhaps he is pandering to Sanders' supporters to get them to vote for HIM.

    I have thought that a Trump/Sanders ticket would be very interesting. It would allow for a LOT of debate and I think Sanders would lose on the socialism side.

    As to voluntary socialism, I really dont have an issue with that. Families are essentially voluntary socialists, although I could argue that the term "socialist" really implies that people are forced to serve others, and therefore "voluntary socialism" is impossible.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 2 months ago
      There is such a thing as voluntary socialism. I tried to live in a commune once. It didn't work for me, but some people were fine with it, and I don't have a problem with them doing it.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
      Socialism could never be voluntary, you have the moochers on one side of the aisle that need their government jobs and government public assistance and the freebie handouts, but that has to come from somewhere - the producers on the other side of the aisle that are not that interested in supporting 'voluntary' socialism.

      The only reason I think this socialism stuff is popular with Millennials is because our shitty break-down in schools over the last 30 years or so has left them with a 6th grade education compared to previous generations and they probably think "socialism" means supporting social media and Facebook.

      Just repeal the progressive tax rate, make everyone chip in 35% at the first dollar of income and make it very visible on their pay stub. This shit will go away real quick. It's only because the Millennials don't have much of a career or jobs (read as too-busy looking in Facebook all day), so they don't pay much or anything in taxes yet. Sooner or later they will find out where those 'free' government programs come from and they will swing hard to the conservative right.
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      • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
        socialism only works until the other guys money runs out is really right.
        I love that scandinavian proposalon to give everyone I think 2500 a month guaranteed. The first thing that came to mind is that everyone is going to have to make more than 2500 and give it all to the government (who takes a cut of course) for that system to work. So, whats the point really
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        • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
          Good series about Norway & shot in Norway on Netflix that illustrates the extreme of their moocher statuses and lack of being able to defend themselves... check out "Occupied".
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        • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
          Those subsidies have driven the cost of living of Norway and Sweden to among the very highest in the world, and no-doubt 'the highest' on a per capita / everywhere in the country look (compared to living in downtown Beijing vs living in the Chinese countryside for example).

          By giving everyone something above zero as a baseline, you raise the costs of everything up to that baseline. Increase the baseline and the cost of everything goes up.

          They (Scandinavia) also have that little thing called miserably small donations to NATO while soaking up that 'you defend us if we are attacked' clause and pretty much not doing any kind of national defense planning or budget. The definition of a moocher in the NATO alliance. Trump was very right to point that out, France is pretty bad too, they don't necessarily participate in NATO exercises or wartime planning, but would certainly want to be rescued (again). The Brits are pretty much the only ones that carry their own weight on that.

          Trump isn't saying scrap NATO either, nor am I, but he is very correct to say "chip in your fair share or get out".
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    • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
      As I posted below, 50% of Millennials support legalization of marijuana, he's going to chase those Millennial votes after Bernie drops out.
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      • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
        100% of the people should support dropping the illegality of drugs period. We should have learned from prohibition that legislating morality doesnt work. somehow alcohol was bad, but it is OK now that its taxed ????
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        • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
          Its obviously a generational thing, I'm not getting into the weeds on that shit (pun intended) beyond saying that I've never had the urge to need to abuse a substance to deal with my problems, I just deal with my problems.

          My wife's family has had huge issues with drugs, there were six kids, she is the oldest and is a civil engineer, the second oldest is a civil engineer but never got his PE (he's a pot head) and he only got the scholarship to go to school because my wife wrote his essay & application (on the day it was due because he sloughed it). Third one is ok, but has smoked and drank and now has stage 4 cancer at 43, the youngest 3 are all potheads, all on public assistance, one is in jail more than out of jail, and the youngest has like 6 months of total job experience and she's 30 years old and now on a worker's-comp claim (from her first 6 months of working in her life).

          People that get addicted to that stuff (and I'll lump alcohol and tobacco in the same group), get transfixed on chasing their next high / drunk / cigarette. The other responsibilities in life kind of become subordinate to that... If they always did it in the privacy of their own home, I wouldn't care, but they don't - they stop at stop lights and get out to share a joint with the person in the car next to them, they think no one knows (but I can smell the skunk weed from 150 feet back behind them at 50 mph, so I'm sure everyone else can). We had an old bag of a piece of shit of a woman high & drunk flying down the 40 mph zone my dead end street tee's off from, hit a young 15 year old girl on the walking trail adjacent, "thought she hit a deer" and dragged pieces & parts of her 7 miles to the next town on her way home with the poor girl's scalp, ear, and a foot stuck in the bitch's suspension where they found it after arresting her. The family said "she doesn't really ever get that drunk & high"... oh, that makes it better!

          So don't hit me with that stupid 'alcohol' argument, I don't drink either, and very few people statistically have more than maybe a glass of wine with a Friday dinner or something. I grew up in an area where alcoholism was rampant (in a small town in the center of the 3 largest tribal reservations in the country), and I even worked in a sports bar as a bartender in college and had to deal with the assholes and shit heads up-front and firsthand. I don't support that stuff either.

          I have a simple policy, do what you want, but do it in public on a public road and hit someone, its zero tolerance, life in prison after that.
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          • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
            I like your last comment about leaving people to do what they want with their bodies, but if they violate someones rights, then they pay the price.

            I have also toyed with the idea that when a person's rights are violated, the perpetrator should lose some or all of HIS rights, which means either the victim or his family (if he is killed) or anyone they appoint, could do what they wanted with the perpetrator to the extent that HIS remaining rights werent violated.

            Kill my daughter with your car and you are subject to being killed in return- my choice. How about that to discourage drunk driving.
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            • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 2 months ago
              The sentiment is fine, but it's the kind of deterrent that doesn't work, because no one thinks it will happen to them. And indeed, in a way they're right.

              The statistics we have about drunk driving are collected in a very biased way, dictated by NHTSA: every accident in which any participant, even a pedestrian, has some alcohol in their blood gets counted as alcohol related and assumed to be the fault of a drunk driver.

              Yet even with that biased data, we can reach some conclusions. NHTSA tells the public that if you have even one drink, and drive after dark, your chance of an accident with an injury or death goes up by a factor of 100. And that's true as far as it goes. What they don't say out loud are the numbers. Your chance of an injury accident on that one drive home from your favorite restaurant goes up from about 1 in 20 million to 1 in 200,000.

              I can't especially blame someone for believing that 1 in 200,000 is still close enough to zero that he'll risk it. And besides, that chance varies hugely from one driver to another. Some people, especially the heaviest drinkers, are affected much less by alcohol than others. The same goes for other drugs.

              Therefore, I would repeal any laws that set a specific legal limit for alcohol or drugs in the body, and simply require that any arrest for drunk driving must be backed up by video of that person driving badly. (Or showing gross clumsiness and then getting behind the wheel.) Let a jury view it and decide whether the person is too drunk -- and let the police stop bothering the people who really aren't drunk enough that a convincing video could be made, or who were sleeping in the back seat and not driving when they were arrested.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
                "no one thinks it will happen to them. And indeed, in a way they're right."
                I agree with all jdg's points above. It's like buying 1 lottery ticket vs 100. Your chances of winning the jackpot are 100 times more but are essentially the same.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 2 months ago
        As for Bernie I got a large charge out of these millennials Why are they supporting a Communist when they are instant execution advocates for drug users? Then too they are the instant execution by formaldehyde injection when the kid's soft spot has emerged. That alone makes Bernie and the Millennials baby killer advocates. It's truly hilarious they bitched about sending us out to fight their wars and now are supporting the other side - the one's we were paid to kill.But then which side is ComradeSanders on? I doubt their thinking has gone much past bogarting. Let me guess Pelosillynni for VP? It's truly Hillar-ious.how they can fliip flop with each drag. I'm about to go over the line and start wondering - do they inhale or just suck.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
        "50% of Millennials support legalization of marijuana, he's going to chase those Millennial votes after Bernie drops out."
        He opposed the war on drugs when millennials were babies and couldn't vote. So it can't be that he started opposing prohibition to pander to millennials.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 2 months ago
          Never said he did. But the Libertarian platform puts that front & center, so for voters that are attracted to that, as young people would be more-so than the adults, it may attract them in numbers.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
            " as young people would be more-so than the adults,"
            The polling may back that up. I don't know. In my personal case, the older I get the less I approve of proposed solutions that involve gov't force.
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