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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
    No wonder lines are always busy. You've got to get those rats off the phones.
    But seriously, it's a here we go again situation. When rats were dosed with a thousand times more sweetener than they could ever be exposed to under normal conditions -- guess what? They got sick and the sweetener was banned. When DDT was tested in quantities so enormous the air was foggy it was determined that it made rats sick. So, DDT a bug killer so effective that it allowed areas to open up that were previously anathema to mankind Now we find the same kind of over testing with cell phones. However, it may be true with the guy who sticks one in his ear and is on it constantly all day. He's such a pain in the maximus that he just might be getting his just desserts.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
      Actually Herb - I've researched the approval of aspartame and, believe me, the rats weren't subjected to "a thousand times" more of the stuff than the average schmo is. When taking into account the scale effect, a lot of people are right on the cusp with their consumption of that stuff. I can't say the same for other substances. But, on aspartame, be careful.

      (being preachy here, sorry) We thinking people need to continue to think and remain somewhat skeptical of what we're told. A good friend and former coworker of mine (also a very conservative guy) once openly joked at my warning about aspartame ("You gotta die from something!"). He guzzled plenty of diet soda. Sure, the stuff tastes good. A couple months later he had part of his colon removed. Now, a few years later, he's got bladder cancer and is being forced into early retirement (guy's about 54). I keep thinking back about our conversations. He's a great guy, and a founder of a huge Tea Party group here in Cal. I just shake my head... No, I don't base my health opinions on a single case like that, either. Still shake my head, though... This guy is very fit. We share the experience of getting our pilots licenses from the same flight instructor up in the hills many years ago.... He's a good man...
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
        Hello Abaco
        (I like the alliteration)
        It wasn't aspartame I was thinking of, but a sweeter used previously to that whose name I can't remember. When it comes to the description of your friend's illnesses, you have left out a factor that most of us do when trying to be logical, which is randomness. It accounts for all sorts of unlikely events occurring like the health nut who dies young of a heart attack with no apparent warning. There is a luck factor to life which is like the roulette wheel. The little white ball drops into a slot and no one can predict whose death knell it sounds. You can be shot down through no fault of your own for no apparent reason. Check out the Hindu 3 tragedies of life.
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        • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
          Oh, I don't disagree. I left that out.

          You are thinking of saccharin.

          Ben Hogan said, "The harder I work the luckier I get." Very true words.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
            Hogan's life is an amazing story.
            I remember a lecturer pointing out that anything can be shown to be dangerous. He came up with the fact that everyone who has ever eaten broccoli has died. By simply leaving out the fact that everyone who has ever lived has died he infers broccoli is harmful. It seems too obvious, but use it in a slightly more sophisticated way and you'd be surprised how the omission of a fact leads to many people falling for a stupid conclusion.
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            • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
              Haha - I could talk a lot on this. Correlation isn't causation, etc. However...we need to use our brains.

              I have a poster of the scientific method hanging up in my engineering office. I have it there as a joke. This is because in our new society we don't allow the first couple steps to occur anymore. We aren't allowed to look at correlation, ask a question then form an hypothesis. Opinions are formed and policies often set based on total BS. That's why we are entering a new dark age. Did you hear that autism is caused by rain? Seriously, that was a headline a couple years back.

              I got a real education just grabbing medical studies and reading them in my work. I've seen sweeping reforms instituted based on a study, only to read the study and finding it to be inconclusive (this was in legionella). Happens all the time. Almost nobody reads studies anymore.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 11 months ago
                "I've seen sweeping reforms instituted based on a study, only to read the study and finding it to be inconclusive (this was in legionella)."
                I read a gov't website on an infant care issue when my first child was born. I followed the footnotes and found the studies didn't really support their claims. They said there was some correlation but they couldn't prove causality. The researchers suggested possible third factors that could cause both correlated observations. I wrote to the agency with excerpts from their website and the lines from the study that showed it was wrong. They wrote back if they had been clear about the lack of causality, it would reduce the response/effectiveness of the literature they produce for the public. In other words, people would respond differently if they told the full truth so they purposely chose to exaggerate.
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              • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
                Oh, you engineers.
                You have to have a rational premise in order to make a meaningful decision or before you'll pursue an answer. You sound just like my son. He's an engineer and my computer guru. He often acts for the left side of my brain which refuses to deal with things mathematical and computerese.
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                • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
                  Haha...Then you probably make a great team. I've helped my dad keep his ass out of the fire a couple times. He's more seat-of-the-pants. Who am I kidding? - he's also a hustler...almost a grifter....
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                  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
                    My skills are not good enough to be a hustler, let alone a grafter. My son started me on computers so long ago that they didn't have monitors. We used old B&W TVs instead. I guess he figured that by now I'd be a computer whiz. He was wrong. Everyone in my family are creative types, writers, actors, artists, but Steve turned out to be the scientist. If he didn't look so much like my father.....
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    • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
      The mind sets of rat irradiaters is somewhat similar to those doing carcinogen research up to the early 1980s as reported in the well researched book "The Apocalyptics: Cancer and the Big Lie , how environmental politics controls what we know about cancer" by Edith Efron, 1984. There were hundreds of chemicals tagged as carcinogens while only a few had been actually shown to be carcinogens in humans. Today the lists again keep increasing in length again along with big worries about EM, diet, climate, future POTUS, etc without much real evidence.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
        Not to mention that cancer research is a huge cash cow. If an overall cure is found -- think of the unemployment.
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        • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
          Check out "The Truth About Cancer". VERY interesting. Our knowledge of cancer has really advanced while many (not all) of the mainstay treatments of it have not. Some of the basics have not been communicated to the practitioners. I bet you'd find it interesting.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
            I find the entire universe interesting. Just some stuff more interesting than others. I'll check out your suggestion. I suspect it'll be one more thing that will piss me off.
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            • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
              Haha!!! Well, I think it may. But, if you are like me, your joy of learning something important will outweigh the anger. When I finished the first episode just about all I could say was, "Wow. Wow..."
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  • Posted by 7 years, 11 months ago
    Question for cell experts:
    Assuming this is an opportunity, what is needed for a free market solution?
    Will more shielding reduce device usability too much?
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 11 months ago
      "Will more shielding reduce device usability too much?"
      No. We design the antenna to radiate in all directions. We try to reduce wasted power absorbed the user's body, but the user's body is < one wavelength away while the base tower > one wavelength, so you have a lot of coupling to the human body.
      "Assuming this is an opportunity, what is needed for a free market solution?"
      I think first we'd have to find the mechanism. For example, would it be better to have the transmitter run at 1W at a 10% duty cycle or 0.1W at a 100% duty cycle, or does it make no difference? Are certain frequencies better than others? Does it matter if the power is spread out over a large bandwidth?
      One idea they're working with is to have nearby phones act as repeaters so your phone could send a lower power signal from the basement to someone right above you with a view of the tower from the window, and that phone could send a lower-power signal too, rather than having the basement-located phone run full power to hit the tower.
      Another idea is the old-school concept of having the antenna not embedded in the handset. You'd need a wire or lower-power link connecting the handset to an antenna in a good location.

      I think this is most likely baloney. They don't have a mechanism of action for why non-ionizing radiation would cause illness. It seems like they anomaly hunt. They run these studies and look for any difference in the control group vs test group. They don't start with a specific hypothesis. After the fact they go and look for anything that looks anomalous and speculate it could be do to unknown mechanisms.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 11 months ago
      It would.

      But then, cell phones emit less than a watt. You're probably getting hundreds of watts of radiation from your computer screen right now. So I'm not going to worry about it.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago
    I'm so close to the end it' hardly matters any more. Kind of like what me worry?

    I don't care what happens after I die much less who pays for it. Not my problem at that point.
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    • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 11 months ago
      It's good to be old!! (73)
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
        You're kidding, right? My body is only functioning on 2 cylinders. What happened to the rest?
        I admit that there are certain advantages such as senior discounts, but the old bod is crumbling. The only advantage I can see is that you start feeling so crappy that when death knocks on the door you welcome him in and offer him a drink.
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 11 months ago
          A lady next door who is older than me is looking forward to death ending all her old age problems.
          Me? I like action movies.
          Sometimes I get to point at the screen and say. "I used to be able to do that move."
          Sigh!
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          • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
            I'm not looking forward to the big sleep, but like you, I get pissed off when my body no longer obeys certain simple commands. But I feel grateful that the brain seems to be functioning at about 90% of previous capacity. Remembering names and titles is a frustration, but I'm relatively computer literate so what has dropped out of my skull can be supplemented electronically.
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        • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 11 months ago
          My genetics are what some people call good.Dad smoked 60 years, made 80, Mom made 93, grandmom made 99, have an aunt just made 101, cousins now pushing 90. One of those cousins got me to learn "health" when I was 14 and I've been taking supplements since then, you know, what you used to be called vitamins. It has made a difference versus guys I went to grade school, high school and college with. When we get together annually, I'm about the only one without a hip or knee replacement or a pacemaker or have had some life saving operation. In short, I lucked out and know it.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
            Both my Mom & Dad checked out at 80 4 months apart. I've got them beat by 2 years...so far. My kids nagged me into quitting the cigarettes, and my wife keeps me eating properly unless I find a way to cheat (which I do, but rarely).Alcohol is forbidden because of my meds. (I cheat there also). I miss my physicality. I didn't appreciate it when I had it, but now, I get pissed off when I know I can't do certain things that were commonplace just a few years ago. My wife's mom lived to 95, and she's in better shape than me.(My wife, that is) You are right, genetics are probably the most important key to long life.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 11 months ago
        Old Dino remembers Saccharine being force fed to rats in a stupid study that allegedly proves that particular brand of artificial sweetener causes cancer.
        Old Dino has Saccharine in a cup of coffee right now.
        No one can force feed any Old Dino any freakin' thing!
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 11 months ago
    Always having a cell phone up to your ear is gona cause problems...period! However, occasional or responsible use should not pose a problem; however, there are individuals that are naturally more vulnerable than others.
    In my job, I have to carry a portable around all the time...I used a belt clip...after a year or so I noticed a pain in the kidney area...I switched sides and the pain went away. I later decided to where the company suit jacket and keep the phone in the pocket, switching sides each day...later included: (Now don't laugh...there is science behind this) I put some smoothed black stones in each pocket...the idea was to change the overall frequency...hoping that new averaged frequency would not be harmful...I tried to prove myself wrong on this and took the stones out and the pain returned each time...so I now keep them in and so far, 4 years now...that pain has not come back.

    So maybe...the rats should switch ears each time their cell phones ring? --I'm joking here!
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 11 months ago
    maybe they shouldn't feed them to rats.
    another program to waste money.
    I didn't know that rats were consumers of cell phones unless of course you are referring to the washington dc rat population
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  • Posted by Dobrien 7 years, 11 months ago
    In this report "the health risks are buried in the fine print".
    This is what I have heard of the way they determined how much frequency or the max set for safety limits . The engineers used a model of a healthy 22 year old male skull and filled it with fluid and then put a phone to it and when the frequency was at a level that started to heat the fluid that is the highest recommended allowed.
    Manufacturers build phones that are a few decimals below 100% of that max level.

    Another thing buried in the fine print is to hold the phone an inch away from your head.

    The thing I think is most important is that childrens skulls are not as thick as a healthy young adult. I would warn parents of this potential risk particularly for pre-teens.
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  • Posted by Enyway 7 years, 11 months ago
    This study is bull. Do you not feed your dog a bone because they recently found that they can choke on the shards. Dogs have been eating bones for thousands of years. The species is still around. Shouldn't they have become extinct by now?
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