U.S. Crews Fail To Place in NATO Tank Competition

Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 9 months ago to Government
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Hmmm.. with 2 kids of my own i the Army, one who actually fixes tanks after they break them, they have indicated a huge drop in both morale and competency. Maybe this is proof of it. So much for the vaunted Army. Maybe we need to lay off a few Generals and hire some privates..


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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Note that although I was in college, I took no deferrment from the draft. I was as eligible as all others of my age, but I did not volunteer to serve. I guess the instinct for self preservation exceeded the nationalistic brainwashing slightly.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 9 months ago
    Of course moral is at an all time low and proficiency in anything is lacking. Everything we valued has been attacked, ridiculed and perverted by shear nonsense.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "....and get them in the field." Amen!!! That's
    where the rubber meets the road. BT (M-48A2s & M-60s)
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, he is at least no begoggled by BS and knows what is really up. But I get from him there is a lot of issues hiding in plain sight that are being ignored, or the upper floors are unable to pay attention.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It must be hard to have a son motivated to do great and heroic things only to be bogged down in bureaucracy. The problem is the military only becomes effective in combat because the ass kissing officers get killed and the tough fight on and up the promotion ladder. .
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not the troops fault either, it is the fact the support organizations cannot get their acts coordinated to make it work. The troops just go where they are told and when, then scratch their heads when no one is there.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, indeed, Infantry is a key, but one thing we used to do well, and forgot, was Combined Arms operations, where artillery, infantry, armor, and air were all coordinated and actually knew what to do. I have heard today it is hard to get all of them to show up on the same day in the same general area.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly. No good politician can resist a good war, or make one if needed.Reminds me of the movie from the 60's where the little country in Europe declared war on the US, just so they could surrender and get reconstruction aid...
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    LMAO we used to say Politics was an extension of War with a cynical attitude. It must be since it serves war so admirably. Give peace a what? Not a chance if votes and profit are involved. .
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    you can't win a war without infantry unless you can overwhelmingly destroy every inch of ground, be it army or marines and it seems like the REMFs never go away except to their safe spots in the puzzle palace and don't mind counting the dead they cause as long as the report is on time and in the correct format. I swear they would send us out without any bullets for the rifles if they could get away with it.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed, he seems to nail it, and is pretty much what I have heard as well. War is political violence, and you cannot just go in bad places, and hope the natives will "vote" for you, because when they vote against you, it is with AK47s and RPG/IEDs. The Army top brass has snet a lot of guys to their deaths with wishful thinking. Not unique, Bernard Montgomery (WW2) did that a lot as well...
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed an excellent point. The hog has proven itself to be one of those one in a hundred designs that just works, and is cheap to fly. Yet business interests keep pushing the politicos on the need to replace it, so they can have another program to milk and overrun. The Navy has been doing the bulk of that lately...
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good for them, testing the hypothesis is the problem though. Also the varied nature of the "enemy" is one of the real problems they face. A whole different set of skill are used in house to house terrorist hunting, versus large unit tank combat. Doesn't help to kill all the terrorists just to get run over by the Russians...
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Combined Arms combat. However go look up the AF readiness rates and you will not be so sure. A lot of units are running at 50% now due to parts shortages and personnel shortages. A lot of people are hanging out somewhere's but in units....
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not bad ideas, I liked the way Heinlein handled officers in Starship Troopers. Absolutely the right way. My sone is an E7 Combat Engineer, who says that only 20% of the units that go to practice basic combat skills in CA pass. They have focused on small unit warfare so much in the last 20 years, large unit combat is not a skill anymore. Supposedly they are going to rectify that but estimate 10 years to get all of them retrained.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 9 months ago
    As a former tanker(M-60's) I am ashamed. But the military is now under Obama an instrument of social change not a fighting force. FIre 20% of the officers and close 10% of the bases and get them in the field. And fix the VA.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "...dumping the A10s." is foolhardy (at best!) It is the best ground support weapon ever. BT
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Perhaps, but one unit an army does not make. If one compares the sizes of the armies of the various NATO groups and assuming even a 2:1 kill ratio (not unreasonable for defensive postures), they are still outnumbered by the Soviets if they chose to invade.

    And what one forgets in ground maneuvers is that the real battle begins in the sky. Without air superiority, the ground-pounders don't stand a chance. And that is an area where no NATO nation can come close to competing with the USAF.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    With a Commander-In-Chief who is in reality a Dismantler-in-Chief it is hard to imagine anyone in the military who is not depressed over their careers.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago
    All the more reason to get out of NATO --- after all, we can't have other showing us up, right? We, not "they," are supposed to be the bullies.
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  • Posted by jhagen 9 years, 9 months ago
    When the new Commander in Chief first spoke to the head of NASA, he changed NASA's main objective to promoting his favorite religion. I have to believe he did something similar for the military.
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  • Posted by jimslag 9 years, 9 months ago
    Note that it was militias (not regular army) that started and fought for our independence. It was farmers and lawyers and shopkeepers who took the fight to the British. There is much to be said with not being trained in fighting skills. As a veteran, there is much to be said about how we train our military. There is such a thing as overtraining and we do it quite regularly. There are some good programs and real world training, such as the SpecOps does is good. However when everyday people best the supposed best the regulars have to offer, it just shows that you don't need to be the best trained, just the best that works together as a team.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 9 months ago
    What if our guys kill more of the enemy even though they didn't place in this competition what would you say about them?
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