U.S. Crews Fail To Place in NATO Tank Competition

Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 9 months ago to Government
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Hmmm.. with 2 kids of my own i the Army, one who actually fixes tanks after they break them, they have indicated a huge drop in both morale and competency. Maybe this is proof of it. So much for the vaunted Army. Maybe we need to lay off a few Generals and hire some privates..


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good point. if it's worth doing enough will come forward. The trick is to use those who do come forward and not waste them. Resorting to the draft is an admission of failure from the start.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No military experience here, Michael. Being a pawn for statists isn't my preference. People who have served in the military have been treated poorly, but that is typical of empires.
    I don't need military expertise to know this.
    Jefferson thought a national standing army was a bad idea. It encourages unnecessary war and mistreatment of everyone below rank of general (and even some generals.) It also encourages raising to power a few military leaders who have done little but murder innocents, President Grant, for example. Both world wars were caused by stupid actions of politicians, not by the people or those in the military. I think this is also true of every war America participated in since 1790. Undoubtedly the next war will be caused by power hungry looters, too.
    None of this is the fault of those who serve in the military, but by their consent (excluding those forced to serve) they give power to the empire that it hasn't earned.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The bush wars that would be Kuwait...and Iraq they get full credit up until Obama declared Iraq won. Obama Wars started with Afghanistan and the return to Iraq and now the ISIS mess. the onlydifference is both Bush's got the requried War Powers Act approval. Clinton and Obama just ignored it.

    Prior to those days and the invasion of kosovo for no apparent reason things were a bit more clear cut.

    but the rule is start the war take the credit for the deaths and the finishing score. LBJ Truman, Roosevelt, Wilson are the four big examples of the socialist wars of the 20th century. As for E6 and below I heard of people who actually retired after 20 at that level but found it hard to believe. They would starve to death on one half base pay. And that 15 year deal with it's buy out to go back on active duty was a real scam artists wet dream for the government. All those people were on half pay awaiting call up to age 45 or 55 depending on skills. Staying read WAS their job. So why did they have to pay it back. What a crock.

    Liberal Dem is an outmoded useless term. There is the government party of Socialists and Rinos...and the rest are not allowed in the game.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All states have a militia if they use it. Some are volunteer groups whose purpose is to man the armories in the event of unit deployment. In WWI and Korea aftermath local cities took many of those structures as abandoned. The participants are usually those who have retired from the Guard.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My particular beef is with the airforce refusing the ground support role and dumping the A10s. No replacement in sight or in mind. The Army should kept that as an Army Air Corps they are not much use to the infantry that's for sure without the aircraft to do the mission. Or is it a case of nerves.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, back then there was a lot more emphasis on preparation and practice. I assume a lot of the rust is caused by a lack of any today (costs). The overall economic imbalance and fragility, in addition to the huge outlays to buy votes, have impacted that. There are a few articles running around about Air Force readiness, where squadrons may have 5 or 6 of 12 or 14 planes able to fly, the others being donors of parts. B1's are particularly hit, using boneyard birds to try to keep going. But you also have to ask wherre the heads are who come up with billions for Navy ships (Littoral designs) that break down and cannot function, or planes that have numerous issues (Raptors) and the constant spending to try to fix a flawed design so they don't look bad, and look worse in the process. The SSN Virginia class is one of the actual good stories of something built and designed that came in under budget. the Rear Admiral running it was my weapons officer on the Will Rogers in 1977/8.Good guy and has done well for us.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Notice, Mike, they are not a military, being unarmed and cannot be called up. Although the Oregon one is pretty well hidden, we go to the main office in Salem and the NG is well represented there on AD. They have guns too....
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is true, National Guard is the "weekend warrior club". I was going with Mikes use, assuming he meant that,as I am unaware of any "official" state militias. Lots of "unofficial" ones around....
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Mike, there are a lot of "hidden" agendas, especially in the officer ranks, where you need the right breeding and positions. The politics are not always limited to political parties, although that is there, but there is a lot of backstabbing, "belong to the right group" mentality. Navy e8/E9 selection was almost all politics. I remember when I was told I had to go to the club to hang out with the SubPac Master Chief, if I ever hoped to get on the list of E8/9 or COBs. I declined to participate in what we called "butt snokeling". My reports say that today, a lot of E6-E9 (and I hear about mainly army) is based on a whole set of grades you get from your next up, such that they actually have board to go to where you can contest a review due to "incompatibility" with them.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Mike, no doubt there are indeed good, honest patriots on both sides. I can disagree with their politics, and when they support sticking their hands in my pockets (which is not a liberal dem item only) but you must respect their service. However, being in power for 20 odd years I am not willing to qualify as service, it too often becomes empire. I would say I rarely ever heard anyone speaking of "giving more" to a group (except enlisted E6 and below, who seemed to be universally able to get support from everyone of any stripe for pay and benefits) so my experience with declared liberals and socialists was very, very limited.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That was easy to agree with, but I have a couple of quibbles. I think you meant a ration of 1:18, as you pointed to the Republicans first.

    Also, we have many socialists and liberals in the military, and they are good patriots. (It is called "national socialism" for a reason.) Recently, here in Texas, we buried this soldier:
    http://www.statesman.com/news/news/st...
    He served in the U.S. Navy during the Korean War. He also served 20 years in the Texas State Guard. And he was a liberal Democrat.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They competed against the best from other nations, as in the Olympics, or many other contests. Our tank teams are not chosen for their political correctness.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago
    Nothing new or unusual there. What was Poland, Denmark and Germany doing for the last year or ten? Practicing.

    In the 70's it was routine for competitive teams sent to these contests to practice year round. In the mid 70's Southern Command then in Panama drew straws sort of and randomly selected squad size teams per each battalion size unit for the rifle, pistol, and M60 MG competition. My team of 12 were tagged and began preparation three months in advance. We also went to the actual range one month in advance and fired the course twice a day. It was no contest against teams who previously had fired for record only annually. Not only that we had more experienced veterans and zero newbies. Why? Our unit did not take them until three years of service or so as a preference. We routinely ran firing courses for other unit's. to scare off the others our last day of practice featured firing pistols at 100 meters against M16 rifles. We also knew wind and temperature conditions for each part of the day. The next level I think the Puerto Rican unit who had been shooting together for years once again took first place. All the other teams at that level were also the local Army Marksmanship Unit instructors.

    We had learned the hard way to bolo or flunk the first go round on purpose to get extra practice. We had three chances. at 105 rounds each. Most of our unit fired Expert on the second or third round. A few sharpshooter and none at the lowest Marksman level. The same applied to most any kind of ordnance. The funds weren't there for that level of practice.

    Add to that over deployed people who have been denied pay raises or COLA adjustments by a 'grateful nation' there is a certain give a stuff attitude.

    Now tell me how many wars that same military has lost recently? Answer. None. The one's you are thinking of were given away or given back etc.

    Treat your military despicably you find they soon despise you.

    And now everyone is in a panic. how droll how typical how despicable.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Milita and National Guard are two entirely different things.the first is purely a state organization. the second is a quasi but on call federal reserve.

    Not a lot of miitary expertise in this forum I can tell.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The republicans can afford to make nicer noises at funerals. The death rate of us service personnel in wars started and operated by them is at best 18:1 with the Democrats killing off more of us for nothing. If you are on a long deployment how do you become unemployed?
    Also when the deployment is over the current version of the law protects the returning National Guard or Reserve who must be given his old job back and any promotions or pay raises. the only time limit is upon release from active duty there is a time limit to report back to work in the old civilian job. Many reservists welcome the active deployment precisely because they had no civilian job.

    Militias are a state level only formation and not part of the active or national reserve forces The words national guard say national for a reason. they are not militia. If any party does have respect it's going to be the RInos the only part of the military that likes the socialists are female voting for Hillary.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem is that the Empire's leaders (re: Obamanation) still play games with using military intervention as a tool. The Republicrats liked the option much better. Neither party respects the military, the Republicrats make nicer noises at funerals. The militia would just become unemployed with long deployments, despite the laws saying you can't (I think they only have to keep you on a year but could be wrong) notwithstanding. A lot of reservists got screwed with Dester (yournamehere) adventures. Use force only as a last resort (ala Asimov), and when you do, use it hard and fast.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Maybe, but to send "your best" (which you hope they are) and not place, puts them in a really bad light. Some of the EU units are very much superior to our mainstream. Leadership is one really weak area, political correctness is No.1 evaluation guide.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 9 months ago
    Win some, lose some. I am almost done reading The Fourth Star about generals Petraeus, Abizaid, Casey, and Chiarelli. When Peter Chiarelli was a major in Germany, the teams under his command brought home the Canadian Trophy.

    As for NC National Guard, congratulations, also.

    However, wars are not won or lost so easily. A single shooting match is just an event.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 9 months ago
    "North Carolina National Guard tankers beat their Regular Army counterparts-and crews from the U.S. Marine Corps and Canadian Army-at the U.S. Army's 2016 Sullivan Cup."

    Yes, give the militia tanks and we will defend America better than the "professional" soldiers.
    Not to mention saving $500 billion a year and letting the rest of the world defend itself.
    Sounds like the Germans, Poles, and Danes can handle defending Europe without American "help."
    Bring the troops back to help at home.
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