A savage works off impulse. His "reason" is his "need" as he determines it. He satisfies his needs through impulse and action. Think Aldus Huxley Brave New World.

A savage, by definition, does not employ reason.
I don't see your implication at all.
Tech. advancement results from freedom and productivity. Uncivilized societies do not cherish reason and freedom....

Think in terms of direction:

intrusion into our lives by other people;
intrusion into our lives by government trying to compensate for human behavior;
intrusion into our lives by advertisements and other media.

In which direction lies civilization?
Choice?
Or Intrusion?

Would a man with all the freedom to do whatever he wants short of infringing on the freedom of others be truly civilized?

Interesting quote. I tend to agree.

Thanks, but I must then ask the question: what validity is there in the assumption that a savage can not enjoy the fruits of reason?

I think that the premise implied in the specific terms is fallacious: the implication that somehow one's lifestyle and environment are predicative of one's ability to employ reason rather than indicative, ie a cause rather than a result. Is it not societal structure and governance that indicate the level of individuality rather than their technological advancement?

I guess to me it is the lack of clarity employed in the argument that diminishes from its effectiveness.

Thanks. I found it on brainyquote when I was researching for the book I'm writing. I knew it sounded familiar but I couldn't place where I'd read it before.

"Civilization" meaning a civilized society void the initiation of force; where reason prevails, enabling individuals to prosper.

It is from "The Fountainhead". It's about individiualism with freedom vs collectivism without.

Not really. In this world there is hardly a place to be born outside of a society nor are there many places to go to should you wish to leave one. Particularly in this time of technology almost all privacy is fleeting.

False premise. You do not need to sacrifice individuality to be part of society. You merely have to understand that if you want others to respect your rights you must respect their rights. In a proper society all relationships are voluntary.

Ok, but being part of any society means you give-up a certain amount of individuality and privacy just to conform to the standards set by the group. Sure they may not dictate every aspect of your life but just the same your individuality and privacy have been voluntarily sacrificed to be part of the group.

Many years ago, before any of us were born, wise men had a motto that has worked down through the centuries. It is easy to remember and was probably invented during the early days of this country. M.Y.O.B. Mind Your Own Business!

When people are free to do whatever they choose in the privacy of their homes or as private citizens without anyone interfering, especially government then shall people be truly free in society !

Edward snowmen

I think the NSA scandal makes this self evident. A true civilization is one where you are allowed to be your own person and not constrained by the rule and eyes of the majority.

Civilization allows for polite society, affording its denizens the freedom to be who they are without apology or explanation, therein the privacy aspect.

They are doing everything they can to demonize the truth teller who risked everything. And how many people are aware of snowmen and what he's done? Who's spying on the gov? Besides Edward?

What did you think it meant?

Where did you get the quote? To me this means you can't be free without privacy OR being part of a tribe. The tribe will dictate. Freedom to choose who you want to associate with or not. Savages or the tribe or the collective will want control and it's easier done if they know everything about you. (I've had wine tonight so that's my disclaimer.)

Which is why most new techs are ones that can be used to spy in one way or another. And the sheep are oblivious.

I'm either not getting it or I'm misunderstanding it.