Is Assisted Suicide “Putting People Down? A question that spans during birth to awaiting death.

Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago to Philosophy
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Posted: May 07, 2016 12:01 AM
Assisted Suicide Is “Putting People Down”
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Last year the UK TV personality Ursula Presgrave generated controversy by her Facebook posting: “Anyone born with down syndrome should be put down, it’s just cruel to let them lead a pointless life of a vegetable.” Aside from the remarkable ignorance she displays about people with Down Syndrome, I’m troubled by the dehumanizing rhetoric. She thinks we should “put down” some of our fellow human beings, as though they are nothing but animals.

It may seem at first glance that her comments have no real connection to the assisted suicide debate, because she is calling for murder, not suicide. However, when one examines the debates over assisted suicide for terminally ill patients, the same kind of mentality emerges. Robert Baxter, who successfully sued in Montana for the right to get physician-assisted suicide, stated, “I just feel if we can do it for animals, we can do it for human beings.”

In my new book, The Death of Humanity: And the Case for Life I provide many more examples—some of them rather shocking—of the way that our intellectual culture has promoted the view that humans should be treated like animals—or even like machines. Ironically, however, proponents of assisted suicide are trying to take the moral high-ground by insisting that their position gives humans more dignity.

The crucial question then is: Does assisted suicide for terminally ill patients really provide a “Death with Dignity”? Or, is it a bold step downward into the depths of degradation by treating our fellow humans as just another animal?
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According to Death with Dignity, last year twenty-four states plus Washington, DC, introduced legislation to legalize assisted suicide (four states had already legalized it earlier). Except in California, this legislation failed, but the success in California has given renewed encouragement and optimism to the pro-assisted suicide lobby.

It is understandable that people nearing the end of their lives should want to avoid excruciating pain and debility. However, is death preferable to sickness and pain? Does pain or disability alter our lives to such an extent that such a person’s life has no value?

Let’s make no mistake about it: Legislation allowing physician-assisted suicide conveys a powerful message: Your life—if you have terminal illness—is no longer important or valuable, so we will not only permit you, but we will help you, kill yourself.

But who am I to impose my value judgments on others, especially those in misery who desperately want relief? The most powerful argument in favor of physician-assisted suicide is that we should respect every individual’s autonomy. Let each individual decide if his or her life has value any longer.

However, the argument from autonomy is internally incoherent. Because we as a society value personal freedom, we have banned slavery, because enslavement would violate their right to liberty. In the same way, we should not allow people to choose to kill themselves, because suicide brings an end to their autonomy.

Ironically, according to surveys of patients in Oregon who requested physician-assisted suicide, the number one reason for making the request was not pain. This is a crucial point, because all the hype surrounding passage of assisted-suicide laws centers on compassion for people suffering pain. Rather, patients more often claim that the reason they want assisted suicide is because they fear losing autonomy and control as their physical condition deteriorates. Ironically, their fear of losing autonomy prompts them to take action to end their autonomy altogether. Decisions to commit suicide by terminally ill patients are not based on reason, but on fear of the unknown, fear of losing control of one’s functions. Yet multitudes of elderly and disabled people live fulfilling, happy lives, so often the fear is unfounded.

Further, as a society we restrict people’s autonomy all the time, when we know that bad decisions are likely to destroy lives. We ban cocaine, force people to wear seat belts, and spend large sums of money preventing people from committing suicide by flinging themselves from the Golden Gate Bridge. These are all legal restrictions on people’s autonomy.

If this legislation is really based on autonomy, then to be consistent we should be willing to assist any competent adult commit suicide for any reason whatsoever. Why only terminally ill patients? This is completely arbitrary, which is why the slippery slope argument against assisted suicide has such force.

Indeed, if we examine countries where physician-assisted suicide is legal—the Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland—we find evidence confirming the slippery slope argument. In the Netherlands physicians regularly flaunt the law by killing patients without consent; in 2005 about 0.4% of all deaths in the Netherlands were physician-administered euthanasia without the patient’s consent, despite the fact that this is technically illegal.

In Belgium physicians are killing mentally ill patients. In one infamous case in 2013 a physician administered euthanasia to a woman who was physically healthy, but had been sexually abused by another psychiatrist. In Switzerland, suicide “clinics” are killing people for any reason whatsoever. One Italian woman distraught because she was losing her physical beauty travelled to Switzerland and ended her life in a suicide clinic.

Instead of passing legislation that effectively tells some people that their lives are not very valuable, and that tells physicians that they can help some people kill themselves, we should encourage people to love and comfort those who are suffering. Let’s help people fight pain, not kill people who are in pain. Let’s not become so degraded that we think it proper to “put people down.”

Article Ends

For some reason i suppose because it seems fitting this went under philosophy or more correctly the application of a philosophy.

Comment One I thought it would do more justice to each stage of life not melding them together but upon reflection decided this approach had merit.

The differences are a baby 'being born' or a capable of viability in the event of a premature birth has no choice. Neither does a Downs Syndrome or other afflicted but born ....individual....but the other side is terminally ill or terminal having made a cognizant choice and letting that choice be known in advance.

The degrees between the two extremes vary the answer to some to others change their minds not at all.

I'm going to cut to the chase as this one was really aimed at assisted suicide. First started in Oregon in the USA.

Having witnessed the degrading life one parent had to live and the toll on the sister unit who provided the care I came to a hard conclusion and filed my papers on the side of pull the plug. or better yet never plug it in. The conscious loss of dignity of a once proud adult who couldn't make it to the toilet without leaving the waste product scattered on the floor between there and the bed was one deciding factor and watching him, my own father, beg the Doctors for release was a second. There was no miracle cure no real disease except the disease of old age and the indignity of such a life. Finally Alzheimers set in.
SOURCE URL: http://townhall.com/columnists/richardweikart/2016/05/07/assisted-suicide-is-putting-people-down-n2159246?newsletterad=


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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 11 months ago
    I'm utterly in favor of a person having ownership of their own body, including when to end their lives.

    On the other hand, as soon as we allow assisted suicide, the pressure will begin on the elderly to stop being selfish and take that option so as to not be a burden on the social welfare net.
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    • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
      As with the quoted article, you quickly switch to the collectivist 'we' crap. There is no on the other hand that should be allowed here. I have had a mother at 33 and a stepmother at 60 and a sister at 41 all beg for someone to end their lives, two had metastatic cancer for several years and the other heart failure with the feeling, even with oxygen, of not being able to breath. Only one may have any assistance by having sufficient morphine being left available. I can say that she was totally miserable when she finally died.
      Death. except for being in the wrong place by accident and violence or naturally, should be the choice of the person who no longer wishes to live a miserable life.
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    • Posted by cjferraris 7 years, 11 months ago
      Similar to that Star Trek TNG episode where everyone walked into the death chamber once they turned 65 because it became a societal norm. People will start out with very subtle reasons (ending pain and suffering, dying with dignity) and then it will slowly expand to things like preserving resources for the greater good and providing ways to be honored for living a good life.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 11 months ago
    People with Down's or advanced Alzheimer's are really a separate question from assisted suicide. They are either not self-aware or unable to express their wills, so the assisted suicide law that now exists in four states wouldn't apply to them. Any such action by their loved ones would either be "pulling the plug" or homicide. (I would hope the Alzheimer's patient takes care of himself by writing a "living will" before he's that far gone.)

    I would want to abort a Down's fetus, but it would be the woman's choice. I would also pull the plug on a wife in Terri Schiavo's condition after a month or two.

    Assisted suicide would apply to someone in the last month or two of terminal cancer, who has nothing but pain to look forward to. I would want that option for myself.

    Abortion (of a healthy fetus) is yet another unrelated question. I disagree with attempts to conflate any of these cases.
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 11 months ago
    Who makes the choice can be difficult to determine. At the end of my fathers life he was unconscious and there was no hope. My older sister was in middle late stage of ALS and did not want to let him go, they had been very close in the last year. When he entered the hospital for the last time my sister and I came into the room and my sister asked; 'What are you doing dad? You are supposed to wait so we can go together!' He replied; 'I know, I need someone there to vouch for me!' The rest of the children wanted to respect dad's last wishes and not keep him on respirator's and 'mechanically' alive. We waited until Verlee could accept the decision we had already made. (It really had been dad's decision, we were simply respecting it.) Once my older sister accepted it a physician came in for a few minutes to talk to us. One question that was asked was would any of us benefit in any way? I understand the desire to be certain that no one was gaining from his death. Sometimes the gain might be just to end the responsibility of caring for someone. Once the entire family confirmed it was time the 'life support' was removed and then we went in. We each spent a few minutes telling Dad how important he had been to our lives and told him thanks for what he had given us in principles for living. After the last one had finished within a few moments he was gone.
    My older sister had also made known that she did not want any heroic measures taken to keep her alive since the end was inevitable with her disease, yet there were times she was fearful and struggled to remain alive. When the time came her siblings and their spouses were in the room with her, we kissed her and said our goodbyes. I don't think there was anyone who could have willingly sped up the process, we simply waited. My youngest sister was then diagnosed with ALS a few years later. Knowing the indignity the disease would impose and its ultimate fate she declared that she did not want to prolong it but when faced with the inability to breathe she chose assistance, she was still viable and could not give up easily. My children, her children and her spouse each gave what they could of their time to assist in her needs. Her life had value until the end, loving and caring, teaching and being present. We all know the end will come one day and would like to choose its value. The value is how we lived not how we go. The key is to not let someone else choose it for us, yet the desire to prevent unnecessary suffering is present and the fine line of where does the choice shift from the one whose life it is to those who are left and are cognizant to make the choice. Each moment I have is worth living, when would I choose to go? There is more that I want to experience and that will be true until the last and that moment should be mine to choose, yet circumstance may make the choice for each of us. It is primary that the state or any group not be involved in the choice, beyond that each of us must choose how to deal with that moment when the decision is ours to make.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
      My father-in-law died of ALS. My mother-in-law wouldn't let him go, after several days of being in the hospital in the state of a living death. She finally went home to shower and change and when she returned, he was gone. I suspect that someone in the hospital put him out of his misery.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 11 months ago
    Leftists want to kill. They'd prefer to do it through their government so as to not get their hands dirty.

    Whenever I hear people bring this topic up in terms of end-of-life (as opposed to just killing handicapped people like a Nazi would) I always think, "Have these people not ever known somebody to die in hospice?" What do you think a pound of painkillers does to somebody who's suffering terribly with cancer at the end?
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    • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
      Those left, middle, or right politically, all in their own little worlds do not want to kill and can be loving parents, etc. But nearly all want to kill someone or something living. Usually it is someone not acting by ones own moral code or someone who has broken some law. The really bad thing with breaking a law is that some people think that as long as someone is being punished, there is no need to be sure that the person is guilty as is being shown today with many being released from prison due to not being guilty.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
        and those released to continue bothering my picnic? I like the fly swatter solution. It will not stop others but it will ensure that one fly never craps on my hot dog and potato salad again. Today I have never learned any of their names nor lost any sleep.

        But that's aside from the question of those at lifes end who are kept alive against their will until like my father he refused to eat so that he would weaken and die. The result of Cruel and Too Usual a punishment for the crime of living.
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        • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
          Why do I feel like getting out the fly swatter right now? So you think that those found to be not guilty should remain in prison so that by giving up their liberty, you will feel a bit safer?
          I hope your father would at least be able to end his life that way, I have known some who have done so. One of my father's room mates when he needed care wanted to die but his sisters would not let him so he had a tube through his chest hooked to a bag of food stuff. All he could do was pull the tube out when alone and make a mess for the aids to clean up. He was not happy about living at all.
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
            That's up to society to determine as a whole group the level of crime required and match to the level of punishment. for some reason that have decided to punish themselves by letting no redeemables out to continue bothering society as a whole and keeping not guilty including those who committed a crime society now declares legal in prison. The fly swatter technique does clean up the picnic table until the next eggs hatch except in areas where society has decreed chemical poisons and electric zapper gizmos the way to go. Instead of just cleaning up the table

            Flys at a picnic does a rather good job making a metaphor of politicians and government bureaucrats as all the above methods are legal.

            It doesn't extend to candidate fly though mores the pity or we could be saying SATA instead of NOTA

            Swat All The Above.

            Doubtless voters breathing too much Raid!
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
    I will introduce three hard points two of which require a signed witnessed statement.

    At or near end of life a declaration of steps to or not to be taken to prolong life. with an addition. Anyone violating the request immediately assumes all financial responsibility. Coupled to this should be some protectioin from confiscation of inherited property or other assets.

    The same situation during life such as those caused by a traffic accident or a disease.

    The Third hard point is viability in the event of premature birth - prior to birth as the cutoff for any abortions with complete abortion rights of the parents the rest of the time. (pre-viability)

    All the rest of that goes to the States and there is no requirement for each state to be the same HOWEVER the protection of minors ensured by DNA when the father is not known.

    No one gets everything. Everyone gets something. Society is protected from government.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 11 months ago
    I have been authorized by my parents to act on each of them. My dad has advanced Alzheimer's, and while conscious enough to express his will, is way past the point where he is able to handle his own medical care, let alone financials.

    My mom, recently deceased, right near the end was in the position of my sister and I having to choose to have her get a colon surgery to eliminate a horrid bacterial infection that would have killed her within a couple of days, get the surgery and hope that she might live another couple of years, or get the surgery and have her with a colostomy bag for the remainder of her life that she explicitly said a year before that she did not want. Both my sister and I had independent power of attorney. She got to the hospital first and decided that my mom should have the surgery, which resulted in the colostomy and ultimately her death less than a week later.

    As for abortion and Down's syndrome: My wife's OB/GYN doctor, without our knowledge, did a preliminary test for Down's syndrome on my wife's 3rd pregnancy (after the first of her two miscarriages). At my wife's then age, we had a 5% chance of a Down's syndrome pregnancy just based on her age, but other factors made it 10% in my wife's case. The OB/GYN doc recommended an abortion. We got a new doc. Now we have a fine 18-year-old daughter graduating from high school in a couple of weeks.

    It is a Happy Mother's Day.

    I hope this set of anecdotes makes you realize that others may be making your decisions for you at some point, and that the ethics of beginning- or end-of-life decisions are not so clear cut. I see most issues as black or white, yes or no, but the area of life decisions have some gray to them that many of us would rather not deal with. However, we cannot avoid such decisions. Existence, whether good or bad, exists.

    A couple of other Gulchers said that beginning- and end-of-life decisions really are not the same. In some cases, that is true, but in other cases where you are acting on behalf of someone else, beginning- and end-of-life decisions do have much in common. Objectivism provides guidance to the decisionmaking process, but when you are in the position of acting on behalf of someone else, the decisions are not clear cut. You must make a decision that you can live with.

    Put together a will and a healthcare directive ASAP. It is an excellent Mother's Day or Father's Day present.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago
    Rather than confront the politically correct issue, why not just off yourself if you want to. It isnt that difficult to do it the same way as a doctor would do it.

    When you go to a hospital or are under the care of a doctor, you give up control of your life unnecessarily. I dont like that idea.

    I think ones life should be under your control. Freedom to life, Freedom to die.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
    Combined with the probable outcome, the current economy and the lack of morals and values one can expect the following. Denial of medical aid or food etc. to those unable to work. It's no more far fetched than what has already occurred and the elderly and retired are already the prime targets. .
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    • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
      Except for sociopaths, every conscious person has morals and acts, except for freewill to inhibit them, from emotions resulting from them. The problem seems to be that the values and virtues of others are not the same as yours. Sociopaths are not just people who seem to be amoral, but do not seem to have a conscious set of values and virtues, though cannot act without some non-conscious values, and thus just act without caring about the results of their actions.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
        And the unconscious?
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        • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
          The unconscious have no moral codes but are still human beings to whom laws will apply. If you want to kill them, then some in society have made laws regarding unconscious persons and their treatments. Doctors, like veterinarians, do sometimes euthanize patients regardless of the law, along with a couple hundred thousand others who die by hospital mistakes a year. It is those few deaths chosen by those who are near death that seem to concern people the most.
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
            and one last question to cover the semantics. the unconscience I suppose I mean to say unable to or not having a conscience but conscious. Fully capable of the first two laws of of objectivism but unable to develop a moral system acceptable to the rest of the terran race..

            The other extreme than one child demanding an honorable death for a single parent....

            Is that not what we face today?
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            • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
              unconscious: where there is no awareness or consciousness of the world or the self. Just some processing of sense data to keep the body operating, to not fall out of bed, etc.
              unconscience: not at the level of knowledgeable awareness of the world but still capable of causing thoughts and processing sense data.
              Nearly all thinking is done at the unconscience level and results in true or false conscious thoughts depending upon whether ones knowledge is valid or invalid. There is no way around logic even when not making the effort to use logical reasoning. even damaged circuitry will perform logically but not give results without some translation that gives the wanted results. For example LSD messes up how sense data is processed, so a translation process has to be done to learn how the world really is when LSD is used. Similarly with schizophrenia where sense data is processed poorly making percepts that can be disturbing.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 7 years, 11 months ago
    If I get to the point where I have seen some loved ones get to I would very much want the means to stop it. The point I am talking about is being so wrecked in body and mind to be practically tied to the bed, hallucinating like crazy, out of control of all body functions and either in pain or so doped up against the pain to be totally incoherent if the mind wasn't largely gone. That is no way to reach end of life. And it is very hard not just financially but emotionally on everyone that cares about the patient. I know I would want the option.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
    Finally he had looked at me and my sister and in a quiet intellectually voice of reason asked this question. "What have I done and who have I offended to be forced to live like this? Our country is wrong. This is not cruel and unusual punishment it is cruel and far too usual." The Doctors were of course restrained in what they could or could not do but the lawyers even with the papers having been filled out and signed some years earlier.

    So on the one hand we sentence without trial our elderly to end their life literally in shit. Both Cruel and Usual.

    But the same Doctor can walk down the hall and take the life of not only an unborn infant but one 'being' born according to some. Thank God that barbaric act has been banned.

    Never mind those in between....My advice "get iyour papers filled out signed and pray one of hillary's friends doesn't sentence you to some form of Cruel and Usual. that's the kind of feminist she is speak of when saying she has the right to play the woman card.

    Just to keep it on track and for those who can't stand the heat I added a little gas to the fire and turned up the thermostat.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      This was meant to be the immediate follow on I see the order has been reversed somehow. one has to start at the bottom and read up. following the posting times.
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