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The bad news for Trump starts

Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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For all the Trump supporters who say he will beat Hillary in the General election: a reality check. Trump has a long climb ahead. The fact that he starts out this far behind a serially corrupt person is bad news indeed.


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 9 months ago
    I ascribe to the Gladstone dictum: there are lies, there are damned lies, and then there are statistics. I view this poll with the same skepticism I did when Fox announced they found a poll in Indiana that showed Cruz ahead of Trump by double digits.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not that he's that good, but that Clinton is sooo bad. I am not able to escape from here, but I am thinking of an alligator filled moat. To hell with the community board of directors.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are holes in the story. 860 participants is not very many. Also it was taken before Indiana and by an organization that did not support Trump. How did they choose the 860?

    And to put any stock in any poll one should be able to see the questions asked. We are to believe that Trump loses to Hillary on immigration? Really? I would definitely want to see the question. And then who is doing the "interpreting" of the results?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    While I respect your opinion, and I am not a Trump guy, I think that Trump will not only win, but will win in a landslide. I would actually prefer that he wins in a squeaker in order to humble him a bit, but I think that he will blow into the White House like the Golden Horde of Genghis Khan.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There are significant questions as to how much Trump has actually spent from his own fortune. There are still a lot of questions surrounding the so-called charity he set up to support vets. Since there was no disclosure on how much money it took in, no one knows if it was actually all paid out to vets as Trump claims, but since he hasn't offered the books for scrutiny, I seriously doubt it.

    And his ground game is anything but organized. He's been relying solely on his name-recognition factor and large-audience speeches - he hasn't spent near the time in personal venues most other candidates do. Now one can say that since he is the presumptive nominee at this point that what he did worked, and that may be true, but what it tells me is that the man is too lazy to secure a win in the General election.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Only that he spent a big chunk of his fortune and some time campaigning.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    you mean Trump's four letter vocabulary isn't charming???...lol...he is an opportunist and pragmatist of the current economic environment...a fascist/socialist/oligarchy...he and HillaryBeast are what you would expect of such a wasteland...
    i cannot prove anything, but i would be willing to bet a deal has been cut between HillaryBeast and ObamaScary...she will not be indicted...Obama wants to serve as a Supreme Court Justice...
    with a $20 trillion debt and a $200 trillion entitlement debt, neither one is going to reverse the slide to bankruptcy...
    i just try to stay under their radar and prepare for what is coming...
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  • Posted by CTYankee 9 years, 9 months ago
    I live in CT, so short of a Clinton indictment, the state is going to go blue -- tragic & sad, but that's how stupid the majority of Nutmeggers have become.

    All I can realistically say or do is to URGE anyone considering voting Democrat to stay away from the polls in November.
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  • Posted by paris1 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    WOW; that's an amazing statement! BTW; I too voted for Nixon in 1972 and it was the VERY LAS TIME I voted for the "lessor of two evils". I've been "wasting" my vote on libertarian candidates ever since and somehow I think AR would give me a pass on that!
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We'll see. In past elections, there was an eventual coalition behind the front-runner by the candidates. Trump burned a lot of bridges however by attacking family members in the way he did, and overcoming that sentiment is going to take some serious apologies on his part which I don't see ever happening.

    The other problem I see is the same problem I had with McCain - the focus that it is support of the party rather than support of principles. I will freely admit that I am a values voter, and when I look at the values of Donald Trump, they don't match up to mine. Trump is 90% of Hillary Clinton - which means only 10% of me. And that is the sentiment of a lot of members of the Republican Party who have been pointing out Trump's progressive values from the beginning.

    Is the election already decided? Of course not. There are still six months of endless TV ads and the possibility of a Federal indictment of Hillary still to play out. No conclusion is forged in iron at this point, but the fact that he starts this far down right off the bat is not good for a campaign that really hasn't put hardly any effort into actually campaigning.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 9 months ago
    No shock to me..voters have a clear choice a sincere liberal or an insincere NY moderate. At least with a liberal (Clinton or Sanders) you can count on what they'll do. Again, and again, Trump will say anything. Its always a question of whether he means what he says when he's trying to close the "Deal".
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I didn't say it is impossible, merely that it is a difficult and unenviable position to begin in. And Donald Trump is no Ronald Reagan - he lacks the wit and charm Reagan had.

    A couple more factors that play in:
    1) Likeability. Hillary's numbers are a net negative, but Trump's are even worse.
    2) Name recognition: Both Hillary and Trump have 100% name recognition. That means that they have no opportunity to make a fresh impression, but must work hard to overcome the negativity attached to their names.
    3) The Republican candidate pretty much starts in a huge hole with respect to the Electoral College.

    And that's before we even get to demographics...

    Trump's best chance is going to be if Hillary gets formally indicted. Barring that...
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  • Posted by wmiranda 9 years, 9 months ago
    The article is from the Blaze and the poll is from CNN. Right away caution flags are up. Trump has proven everyone wrong. As soon as the "Never Trump" walk it off and start thinking "Never HIllary" even the Blaze, CNN and MSNBC will have to grudgingly change their reporting.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hannity, Drudge, Coulter, O'Reilley, and Limbaugh are all staunch Republicans. Limbaugh usually, O'Rielly and Coulter occasionally have some pithy laughing points but the bed they are in is not one found in my house. Hannity and Drudge are pure RINO.
    People tend to outgrow them as they grow up.
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  • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
    There are significant holes in that story.

    First, notice that the focus is on "favorables" - as opposed to "If the election were today, for whom would you vote?". This is a common tactic for avoiding the answers in those polls - of which Trump has gained and begun to outpace Hillary in. You always have to get the questions asked in a poll to make any sense of it.

    The second major hole is failing to account for the failure of polls to predict Trump's victory margin. Given the stigma associated with being a Trump supporter, right or wrong, there is reason to believe many won't "admit to being a supporter" in a poll, but in the privacy of the voting booth they pull the lever for Trump. This is one of the explanations which actually makes sense as to why Trump has been doing much better than expected in votes vs. polls.

    If this effect exists outside of the GOP, and there is good reason to expect that if it exists inside it also exists outside, then the Trump v. Clinton polls are likewise inaccurate in the same manner. But how much off would they have to be?

    Between 5 and 10%. If you look at the work done by the NY Times on what it would take at the general level, 5% means Clinton would likely win by 15 electoral votes. 10% means Trump by 35. So I estimate that depending on how it played out at the state level, Trump only has to be under-represented in current matchup polling by about 7%. He has consistently beaten that fairly easily of late.

    Remember, this isn't about the popular vote - it is about the electoral college. When you look at the electoral map over the last several years you learn some interesting things. In a sense the deck is already stacked in Clinton's favor. If she ran as a Republican she'd be in the same starting-behind position as Trump.

    This race will definitely be one for the swing states unless Trump can flip a major state or two. I doubt he can do that, but he may be able to get key swing states. The margin is much closer than many think, or would like it to be.

    Trump has proven to be one who does not follow the patterns we expect. He consistently beats polls, and so much "analysis" is based on these numbers. It stands to reason that placing a lot of weight on something which can't seem to accurately gauge support for one candidate will result in said predictions not being very accurate.

    I am often reminded of Helen Chenoweth. She was widely unpopular due to her statements, often off the wall and almost always off the cuff. Yet she kept getting elected. I as astounded by this and did my own polling back then. So many people who didn't like her, or her positions, still voted for her - even from the Democrats. Why? They knew what they were getting and didn't hide what she thought.

    At some level this is refreshing and thus appealing to a public so used to what are now common political traits of doublespeak and wavering. It allows people to have some hope that things can be different - that if we elect people like that enough, even if we disagree with them, "someone" will get the message we want people who are who they say they are.

    That brings us into something few are realizing about Trump v. Clinton. Clinton is literally running a "with the candidate" race. Trump is running a "candidate with me" race. By that I mean Clinton's motto is actually "I'm with her", but Trump has his supporters thinking he is with them. This is a crucial difference.

    This style of campaign is what Reagan, William Clinton, Bush the 2nd, and Obama ran. There is a significant psychological pull to believing someone is "with you" rather than you being "with them". During Obama's first race I noted and commented frequently that he was running an effective tabula rasa. He avoided saying much beyond vague emotions and let people assign to him what they wanted. In this way he made people feel he was with them.

    Trump is largely doing the same thing. He keeps his statements and positions as general platitudes such as "Make America Great Again". This exposes another key differentiator between the two styles of campaign: "with me" is emotional whereas "With him/her" is not. Humans tend very strongly to make emotional decisions over rational ones.

    The more he can play to the emotions of the voters, which Hillary has and will struggle with, the more likely the is to effect that small ~7% increase over existing poll - assuming he doesn't already have that made up. A lot can happen between now and November, and Hillary doesn't have the easiest paths either. There are several wild cards that can throw her campaign into a tail spin regardless of Trump.

    She may have to speak with investigators in a criminal investigation over her email shenanigans, or even face indictment. Her husband may rise to Trump's baiting and say things that torpedo his wife's campaign. She herself can start saying things that lower her chances - you know getting off the reservation as it were.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How could being anti-Hillary qualify in any way as anti woman? The sex predator enabler of the last century? If that's what the woman's movement is all about they lost once again as they did in the nineties.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's an open site.Best way to keep track of the more objectionable opinions is give them enough rope they usually hang themselves, by using AR and objectivism. Most of it goes right over their heads or they aren't listening but it shows.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very powerful piece. Is he strong enough to go after Hillary and Lynch? Question? Has any law enforcement or justice department official read Hillary the Miranda Esobedo Warnings? Or are they dragging on that too?

    Still there are other choices. NOTA is one to ensure there is no majority much less a landslide or a mandate and demonstrate a complete lack of confidence or trust. Gary Johnson is another one if the purpose is getting that party up over 10% but without a coalition that's unlikely. Of course the real battle ground is in the 110,000 precincts.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Perhaps none to him, but our loss of freedoms as a result of a Hillary Presidency fills me with dread.
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  • Posted by paris1 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Gary Johnson is no one's idea of a perfect candidate, but compared to Trump, he looks like an intellectual giant! And he supports the 2nd amendment too!
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think someone will come along that will unseat Hillary AGAIN. Obama was a nobody and tossed her out with the trash in no time at all. I thought it would be Sanders (and it might yet be). Trump will do it. He is a good judge of character and his off the cuff assessments are usually right. Cruz was a sneaky lying power hungry politician. Rubio was a a blowhard. Bush was "low energy", etc. Crooked Hillary is a good descriptor also. She is good at hiding things, but its time for all her hidings to be exposed.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely. I am voting for Trump. He isnt politically correct and will tell us when the emperor has no clothes. We have tried establishment people and THAT didnt work, lets try an outsider who isnt beholden to wall street like bought and paid for Hildebeast is.
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