There isn’t anything about this story or about their lifestyle that takes away from me being an individual. Congrats to them. Twenty-six years is a long time.
Yuri Bezmenov (the defected and now deceased former Soviet KGB agent) said: "When homosexuality becomes political, that's communism." I hate communism. Period. I don't compromise with communists either. All communists can GTFO.
I support civil unions between gays & lesbians. However, I do not support "marriage" among them. Why? Because it mocks God's sacrament of Marriage. There is a book that has documented over 2,000 years worth of what happens to those who mock God and his commandments and sacraments. Enjoy your freedom (under Christianity) to mock God. You won't have such a freedom under Sharia Law and you better hope that Sharia Law doesn't become the law of the land here in the U.S. You in the LGBT crowd will have a rude awakening should that happen.
What people do behind closed doors (back in the old days, now it's in public parks, McDonalds bathrooms) is their business. I don't want to know. A man who goes down on one knee and proposes to another man is both distasteful and embarrassing.
Spouting bible theology to support an intolerance to people with a different sexual orientation than you is absolutely no different then those who spout off Sharia law from the Koran to refuse women equality.
2000 years of history? Come on, now...we are all grown-ups here. You do know the Catholic Church cherry-picked what went into the bible don’t you? You do know that historians have proven that portions of the first-hand accounts of Jesus were actually written three hundred years after his death, right? If you want to rely on the bible as a personal philosophy to enrich your life--more power to you, but don’t try to sell that snake-oil garbage of "based in factuality" to me.
So, go back and re-read the first sentence of my second paragraph. Where's the intolerance? 40 years ago, the LGBT crowd lamented that they couldn't 'come out of the closet' for fear of being persecuted. By the time the early '90's, "coming out" was becoming more accepted. So great, you come out, say you're gay and no issues. Was that enough? Nope.
Then the crowd said they wanted a civil union. Over time, that got endorsed by various states and everybody hailed it as a good thing for tolerance. Was that enough? Nope.
Then the LGBT crowd wanted to brag at workplaces about their "lifestyle" and eventually, even in the military, they won that too. Everybody celebrated in the name of diversity and tolerance. Was that enough? NOPE.
Now, they want to go after the Marriage sacrament. --something from God. I know you really want to rub it in my face the 'see, we CAN be MARRIED!' But that marriage is one that will never be accepted by God. Now, pay close attention here: THIS ISN'T MY RULE, IT IS GOD's. Your problem (as well as LGBT) isn't with the Christians, it is with God.
The odd thing about the LGBT and the marriage thing, just like what David points out is: the homosexuals then want to emulate roles such as 'man' and 'woman' using the same sex. And also 'dad' and 'mother' roles whenever they decide to screw up some poor kid that they themselves cannot conceive due to obvious physical reasons. But isn't the traditional, Godly designed roles "evil" or somehow "wrong" in the LGBT view? If so, why then are they trying to copy them?
Come again about Christian intolerance? Who got shocked in the pageant? What was response? Hmmm. Kind of looks like a form of persecution to me. But somehow, we are intolerant of the gay lifestyle, really?
As a Christian, I hate the sin, not the sinner. Who tells me to be like that? Jesus does.
Now for Islam. What does Mohammed say about homosexuality? Can you handle the truth?
Qur’an 7:81- "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text (Qu’ran 7:80-84) and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to Arabic grammar, homosexuality is referred to as the worst sin, while other references describe other activities of non-marital sex as "among great sins."
So what’s your take on that? If you think Christian intolerance is bad, I suggest you fly out to Saudi Arabia (don’t forget to cover up!) and see what the Government does to homosexuals in “Chop Chop Square”? Have you seen the videos of what they do to homosexuals in Tehran, Iran? Where’s the outrage by the LGBT community? NOWHERE. THEY ARE SILENT. They know what will happen to them if they ever confront an Immam on the homosexual “lifestyle”: it means DEATH.
That’s why it’s so easy to pick on Christians: they know NOTHING will happen to them. Take your vitriol and gather fellow LGBT and fight the true threat here: Islam. By the way, I will fight with you. Not because I agree with your lifestyle choice, but because Islam wants us all dead. Again, I hate the sin, not the sinner. Your opinions on the Bible do not bother me (hey, that’s tolerance!) but in the end you’ll be given an opportunity to repent. And I hope you will.
Actually, the argument started with you not happy with me for congratulating a gay couple on their engagement announcement. First, you began with a comparison to communism, then it went downhill from there. I shouldn’t attack your faith. You just made it so easy, and I am an opportunist.
I’m more worried about them raising Progressives. :) Shall I remind you that Utah’s first openly-gay mayor is also a member of the Gulch? http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/3f... He probably doesn’t come here anymore. I think that is a shame. How many of us are running for office or in a position to make a real change. David, if I may be blunt: You are an old dog, and old dogs don’t like to learn new tricks, but if you are willing to be open-minded and debate this issue from time to time with me__ I willing to be patience with you and hear you out.
Okay. On average the gay community represents less than 3% of our population. It’s true they don’t reproduce, so it is difficult to grow their numbers for political activism. I think that is one of the reason they rely so heavily on the straight community for support. But I think you are referring to reactionary gay groups that formed and began to lash out in anger during the early nineties, They were all about shock value. The government wasn’t addressing the deaths in the gay community from AIDS, causing an explosion of radical gays trying to get into everyone’s face and make an issue. You would be too if your friends, loved-ones, and family were dying around you, and everyone is trying to spout bile verses at you as a solution. I’m a libertarian in spirit. Everyone has a right to be free. Are there gays like this still trying to shock us? Sure, but they work outside the main LGBT community who wants respectability. Nobody is after our kids.
My kids are grown now. They are fine. They weren’t raised in a home of intolerance. All of them are straight. Nobody is trying to *recruit* them. My son had a gay friend once that I think had a crush on him, but so what? It was painfully awkward for both of them, just like when a girl who chases a boy that is a friend, but the boy doesn’t want that kind of relationship. What is your problem, really? You afraid some guy will try to touch you? Well after putting up with years of straight, macho men thinking it was okay to put their arms around me or grab my butt without my consent, I’m not feeling a lot of sympathy for you. Good luck with that.
You over-reacted and over-reached. I saw your article. Bert and Ernie’s imaged was used to support an opinion piece. The last two lines of the article implied that it would be inappropriate to use Bert and Ernie to promote same-sex because they were puppets for kids. It was just an opinion piece. Have you ever read any of the books that they add to the school curriculum? I think that it’s okay, because I would rather my kids be raised knowing that this very small minority in our country that are just as good as everyone else, then for them to be raised thinking gays are to be feared and hated. I wouldn’t want my son or daughter to end up in jail for beating up or killing a gay person because they have been taught to over-react over simple biological differences that occur sometimes in humans. It’s not rational or logical. Teaching kids young to see the gay community as normal helps to children to react to differences without prejudices as adults.You can’t *recruit*. Biological urges are too strong to change with a song and dance. How did you develop your strong feelings against gays? Wouldn’t your life be simpler if it didn’t matter to you?
What you seem to miss in your posts is that many here are not openly anti-gay, but are pushing back against the 'in your face' 'look at me, I'm gay...and proud of it' BS we are having to endure daily.
Pretty simple. Do what you want, but don't make it my daily ingest of news and street marching.
I just read how this is going down in Russia:
"Critics say the bill - a nationwide version of laws in place in cities including St Petersburg, President Vladimir Putin's hometown, - effectively bans gay rights rallies and could be used to prosecute anyone voicing support for homosexuals."
I don't want to ban free speech, but I'm with you on way out of hand. I do not care if they legally hitch or not. Go for it. but don't act like you're some 2nd class citizen while you're doing it. and DO NOT set yourselves up as a minority group that needs special attention. Like tell the feds how many gay contractors you've hired in the last five years and if you're short-your bad. I have gay friends who understand that legislating new definitions to words is not a healthy plan for the Constitution. I do, however, believe policy changes are ripe in industries that do not recognize partnerships and legal unions. Hospitals, for example, are notorious in this regard. Not every one but many.
"I wouldn’t want my son or daughter to end up in jail for beating up or killing a gay person because they have been taught to over-react..." Who teaches THAT???
Nobody is ignoring you. I don’t rush to answers to loaded questions. I don’t have a simple answer for you. I know that people instantly lash out what they deem is inferior when they feel threaten. Homosexual has mostly been viewed in our history as taboo, so their community has been targeted through the decades. “Stay in the closet” is a threat, and they stayed in the closet out of fear. Where did we learn to feel that way if we didn’t learn it from society?
What some people do in the closet, or out of the closet, is NOT my business. I won't stick my nose in it so long as my nose isn't rubbed in it. It's the forced nose rubbing that I have a problem with. Not only is it rubbed in everybody's face it is then demanded that everybody agree or face harsh name calling or legal entanglements. (The baker who didn't want to cater a gay wedding for instance. The owner has a right to run his/her business the way he/she sees fit. An attempt to shame another to abandon their beliefs to suit your agenda seems to me something you would be against...since having to stay in the closet was the same form of a bullying tactic.) Your question "Where did we learn to feel that way if we didn’t learn it from society?" So your answer to this is to have public schools read certain books to children? Seriously???
Yeah, but I don't think that's what she was referring to. I can't stand when non acceptance is paralleled with "hate". Here's another quote:
"Have you ever read any of the books that they add to the school curriculum? I think that it’s okay, because I would rather my kids be raised knowing that this very small minority in our country that are just as good as everyone else, then for them to be raised thinking gays are to be feared and hated."
Good grief...first it's saying that this type of teaching is the gov schools' job AND it's overriding personal beliefs and opinions in the home and how people should raise their OWN kids...and the words "fear" and "hate" are thrown in for the added attempt at guilting. It's a difference of beliefs... fear, hate, and violence towards those we don't agree with don't even enter into the debate....but there it is. Just more cards to play...when you can't use the race card...try the hate card, or the fear card or the violence card... Whatever it takes to dismiss the "intolerant". What a game of pot/kettle intolerance.
I had to read this several times to get your point...and I agree.
Paraphrased (and correct me if wrong) you are saying that Mimi reduces it to 'if you don't endorse it, then you must hate and fear it. And I am for anything that promotes Gay acceptance so that my children don't grow up to be as hateful (and dangerous) as you. Thank god my child's school is replacing Tom Sawyer with Jane Has Two Mommies. This takes that touchy issue out of my worry...'?
Mimi, and I, spent half of last night butting heads over Paula Deen, and I will take a pass tonight over gays!
We didn’t butt heads over Paula Deen. In fact, I didn’t share one personal view about what happened to Paula Deen. I answered your question about who might be involved with bringing her down..
That's pretty close RR. :) I missed the Paula Deen debate....but I'll say this. I DON'T CARE WHAT SHE SAID 20 YEARS AGO IN HER OWN HOUSE OR WHAT SHE SAID 2 MINUTES AGO! She can SAY whatever she wants, this is America (it still is, right??)...if you don't like it then stop working for her, stop hiring her, stop paying her, stop watching her show, stop buying her books...whatever! But she's acting like a blubbering moron in the aftermath of it all and It's embarrassing. I think the masses are too easily offended and overly sensitive...and apparently so is she!
How is assuming an “opposite sex* role proof that there isn’t a biological difference? That doesn’t make any sense to me. It happens all the time in nature.
You crack me up, David. At least you are sincere. It’s the weekend. I’m done. I’m sure you and I wil have another round sooner or later. Have a good weekend, everyone.
My first time on Galt's Gulch, and the first message, the top of the list, is about homosexuals.
When I was very young, homosexuals were put in jail for sodomy. Today I can't seem to get away from them pushing their lifestyle in my face -- even here!
I'm sure I will be denounced as some biased, hate-filled bigot by people who don't have a clue about me or my feelings, but really, can we let bedroom issues stay in the bedroom?
Nope. Not by me. You're fine. YES. Keep sexual activities in the bedroom. Not at Disney's "Gay Day", not during a parade in downtown SF (inadvertently was in the wrong place at the wrong time, thank GOD my kids weren't with me at the time) not in the park and not in a McDonalds restroom. "Coming out" doesn't equate to being pornographic, anytime, anywhere.
That's fine if the two or more chicks involved are doing their thing where nobody would ever stumble onto them. Remember the backseat of a car, at night, at the far end of the drive-in or at the far end of some park where NOBODY ventures? <Those are general questions!> Obviously, I'm not implying that you & I are recollecting personal carnal experiences back in the day... lol.
unfortunately, not surprising news. Clearly he was a predator. however, I said that the stats appear murky. First of all, in cases of child molestation, the overwhelming statistics are these. 90% of molestations are preformed by men. and, the number of girls violated compared to boys is a ratio of 2 to 1. Looking at just these, one could generalize that female homosexuals are not child molesters. That takes the sail out of your argument. Among males, there appears to be a disproportionate number of homosexual pedophiles. The stats on the number of men identifying as homosexual is roughly 2% of the overall population. This is where I feel stats breakdown. The actual percentage is higher. They are working off data where a person voluntarily is identifying with homosexuality. Not only would I suspect homosexual pedophiles to not share their sexual orientation, I will bet alot of homosexuals who are NOT pedophiles are not sharing their sexual orientation in surveys. so until that stat gets "cleaned up" we won't really know conclusively. I saw some articles, but they were all biased to one side or the other-you can just tell when reading the abstracts. Some of them would include surveys where homosexuals were asked if they had sex with a minor and they broke down those stats, without qualifying that the respondent was an adult when that happened. How many people do you know had sex before they were 18? maybe even 16? or 14? so that was murky too.Certainly, cases like Jackson and the catholic church are very visible. Ultimately, pedophiles are predators and their acts are of violence. Monsters! Homosexuality, although not the norm, is not violent or predatory by definition.
well that statement is also incorrect according to my stats on child molestation. 90% of molesters are male. the ratio of molested children is 2:1 GIRLS. I do not know about your last comments. It seems weird that Sweden an Iceland are pushing androgyny in their culture. remember that article about the school locker rooms?
the only conclusion I will make is MOST child molesters are NOT homosexual-unless you can bring in stats to prove that child molesters molesters molest indiscriminately. even so, from the numbers you can deduce that most pedophiles are heterosexual. really, I just want to call them monsters. can we use that term instead? remember- it was some crazy article about how the schools were creating a separate bathroom for those who were transgender in Sweden or Norway. can't remember exactly-it was a post in here. we had lots of fun with it
Can they vote or PM? Because it seems a little weird to post to a forum where you can’t be read. I guess a newbie (such as myself) comes along every once and while and opens their comments out of curiosity. You guys read me the riot act so I’ll try not to do that again. :)
David...I love you mostly, but how the hell do you know what "roles" are played by who in their own bedroom? And I think the "role" playing is irrelevant anyway. In my opinion.... To each his own, just stop trying so hard to convince us because we mostly just don't care until our faces are being rubbed in things that aren't our business to begin with. If we shoved the gov out of marriage all together could we just stop this nonsense already.... what a waste of time in my opinion....we have bigger fish to fry in this country. Keep your private business in our own pants where it belongs and let's talk about bigger things. Literally!
"Keep your private business in our own pants where it belongs and let's talk about bigger things." um.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GB3FqB6K... seriously, you're right as usual!
Sometimes their both masculine, sometimes their both feminine, sometimes their both androgynous. And again, regardless of appearance, or roles, it's irrelevant. I don't examine others' relationships that closely...gay or straight. I do know that some of my friend's husbands do ALL the cooking and some do most of the cleaning...shall we dissect the hell out of those factors....just for fun's sake? :)
I support civil unions between gays & lesbians. However, I do not support "marriage" among them. Why? Because it mocks God's sacrament of Marriage. There is a book that has documented over 2,000 years worth of what happens to those who mock God and his commandments and sacraments. Enjoy your freedom (under Christianity) to mock God. You won't have such a freedom under Sharia Law and you better hope that Sharia Law doesn't become the law of the land here in the U.S. You in the LGBT crowd will have a rude awakening should that happen.
What people do behind closed doors (back in the old days, now it's in public parks, McDonalds bathrooms) is their business. I don't want to know. A man who goes down on one knee and proposes to another man is both distasteful and embarrassing.
2000 years of history? Come on, now...we are all grown-ups here. You do know the Catholic Church cherry-picked what went into the bible don’t you? You do know that historians have proven that portions of the first-hand accounts of Jesus were actually written three hundred years after his death, right? If you want to rely on the bible as a personal philosophy to enrich your life--more power to you, but don’t try to sell that snake-oil garbage of "based in factuality" to me.
So, go back and re-read the first sentence of my second paragraph. Where's the intolerance? 40 years ago, the LGBT crowd lamented that they couldn't 'come out of the closet' for fear of being persecuted. By the time the early '90's, "coming out" was becoming more accepted. So great, you come out, say you're gay and no issues. Was that enough? Nope.
Then the crowd said they wanted a civil union. Over time, that got endorsed by various states and everybody hailed it as a good thing for tolerance. Was that enough? Nope.
Then the LGBT crowd wanted to brag at workplaces about their "lifestyle" and eventually, even in the military, they won that too. Everybody celebrated in the name of diversity and tolerance. Was that enough? NOPE.
Now, they want to go after the Marriage sacrament. --something from God. I know you really want to rub it in my face the 'see, we CAN be MARRIED!' But that marriage is one that will never be accepted by God. Now, pay close attention here: THIS ISN'T MY RULE, IT IS GOD's. Your problem (as well as LGBT) isn't with the Christians, it is with God.
The odd thing about the LGBT and the marriage thing, just like what David points out is: the homosexuals then want to emulate roles such as 'man' and 'woman' using the same sex. And also 'dad' and 'mother' roles whenever they decide to screw up some poor kid that they themselves cannot conceive due to obvious physical reasons. But isn't the traditional, Godly designed roles "evil" or somehow "wrong" in the LGBT view? If so, why then are they trying to copy them?
Now for the hypocrisy from the LGBT crowd. Let's examine how tolerant the gay crowd is towards someone's who's straight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05YSyKtwz...
Come again about Christian intolerance? Who got shocked in the pageant? What was response? Hmmm. Kind of looks like a form of persecution to me. But somehow, we are intolerant of the gay lifestyle, really?
As a Christian, I hate the sin, not the sinner. Who tells me to be like that? Jesus does.
Now for Islam. What does Mohammed say about homosexuality? Can you handle the truth?
Qur’an 7:81- "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text (Qu’ran 7:80-84) and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to Arabic grammar, homosexuality is referred to as the worst sin, while other references describe other activities of non-marital sex as "among great sins."
So what’s your take on that? If you think Christian intolerance is bad, I suggest you fly out to Saudi Arabia (don’t forget to cover up!) and see what the Government does to homosexuals in “Chop Chop Square”? Have you seen the videos of what they do to homosexuals in Tehran, Iran? Where’s the outrage by the LGBT community? NOWHERE. THEY ARE SILENT. They know what will happen to them if they ever confront an Immam on the homosexual “lifestyle”: it means DEATH.
That’s why it’s so easy to pick on Christians: they know NOTHING will happen to them. Take your vitriol and gather fellow LGBT and fight the true threat here: Islam. By the way, I will fight with you. Not because I agree with your lifestyle choice, but because Islam wants us all dead. Again, I hate the sin, not the sinner. Your opinions on the Bible do not bother me (hey, that’s tolerance!) but in the end you’ll be given an opportunity to repent. And I hope you will.
Shall I remind you that Utah’s first openly-gay mayor is also a member of the Gulch? http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/3f...
He probably doesn’t come here anymore. I think that is a shame. How many of us are running for office or in a position to make a real change. David, if I may be blunt: You are an old dog, and old dogs don’t like to learn new tricks, but if you are willing to be open-minded and debate this issue from time to time with me__ I willing to be patience with you and hear you out.
My kids are grown now. They are fine. They weren’t raised in a home of intolerance. All of them are straight. Nobody is trying to *recruit* them. My son had a gay friend once that I think had a crush on him, but so what? It was painfully awkward for both of them, just like when a girl who chases a boy that is a friend, but the boy doesn’t want that kind of relationship. What is your problem, really? You afraid some guy will try to touch you? Well after putting up with years of straight, macho men thinking it was okay to put their arms around me or grab my butt without my consent, I’m not feeling a lot of sympathy for you. Good luck with that.
How did you develop your strong feelings against gays? Wouldn’t your life be simpler if it didn’t matter to you?
Pretty simple. Do what you want, but don't make it my daily ingest of news and street marching.
I just read how this is going down in Russia:
"Critics say the bill - a nationwide version of laws in place in cities including St Petersburg, President Vladimir Putin's hometown, - effectively bans gay rights rallies and could be used to prosecute anyone voicing support for homosexuals."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/2...
Apparently, Russia is not as willing to ruled by the Gay community as we are.
Maybe they need a good PR firm....
Talk about torpedoing an entire industry!
And I thought it was only choreographers and hair stylists.
To quote: "Wow. The things I learn here."
Your question "Where did we learn to feel that way if we didn’t learn it from society?"
So your answer to this is to have public schools read certain books to children? Seriously???
Anyone that teaches the Quran literally.
"Have you ever read any of the books that they add to the school curriculum? I think that it’s okay, because I would rather my kids be raised knowing that this very small minority in our country that are just as good as everyone else, then for them to be raised thinking gays are to be feared and hated."
Good grief...first it's saying that this type of teaching is the gov schools' job AND it's overriding personal beliefs and opinions in the home and how people should raise their OWN kids...and the words "fear" and "hate" are thrown in for the added attempt at guilting. It's a difference of beliefs... fear, hate, and violence towards those we don't agree with don't even enter into the debate....but there it is. Just more cards to play...when you can't use the race card...try the hate card, or the fear card or the violence card... Whatever it takes to dismiss the "intolerant". What a game of pot/kettle intolerance.
Paraphrased (and correct me if wrong) you are saying that Mimi reduces it to 'if you don't endorse it, then you must hate and fear it. And I am for anything that promotes Gay acceptance so that my children don't grow up to be as hateful (and dangerous) as you. Thank god my child's school is replacing Tom Sawyer with Jane Has Two Mommies. This takes that touchy issue out of my worry...'?
Mimi, and I, spent half of last night butting heads over Paula Deen, and I will take a pass tonight over gays!
I missed the Paula Deen debate....but I'll say this. I DON'T CARE WHAT SHE SAID 20 YEARS AGO IN HER OWN HOUSE OR WHAT SHE SAID 2 MINUTES AGO! She can SAY whatever she wants, this is America (it still is, right??)...if you don't like it then stop working for her, stop hiring her, stop paying her, stop watching her show, stop buying her books...whatever! But she's acting like a blubbering moron in the aftermath of it all and It's embarrassing. I think the masses are too easily offended and overly sensitive...and apparently so is she!
That’s okay. I’ll gladly be thier fearless leader.:)
When I was very young, homosexuals were put in jail for sodomy. Today I can't seem to get away from them pushing their lifestyle in my face -- even here!
I'm sure I will be denounced as some biased, hate-filled bigot by people who don't have a clue about me or my feelings, but really, can we let bedroom issues stay in the bedroom?
Remember the backseat of a car, at night, at the far end of the drive-in or at the far end of some park where NOBODY ventures? <Those are general questions!> Obviously, I'm not implying that you & I are recollecting personal carnal experiences back in the day... lol.
Keep trying!
Homosexuality, although not the norm, is not violent or predatory by definition.
I do not know about your last comments. It seems weird that Sweden an Iceland are pushing androgyny in their culture. remember that article about the school locker rooms?
Mimi thinks that Oprah is the villain in the Paula Deen soap opera. That is an interesting theory!
If true...and Oprah decided that Paula was racist...then some of what follows makes sense.
But (big 'but'): I haven't seen anything confirming their connection or relationship, and Mimi promised to back this up with links.
As for now, the story takes a back-burner....
um....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GB3FqB6K...
seriously, you're right as usual!
"Don't ask, don't tell" made for a saner world.
Call me old fashioned!