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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
    I completely agree. This use of "rights" cheapens the word.
    "There are rights to decent housing, good food and a decent job, and for senior citizens, there’s a right to prescription drugs."
    I don't think it's nitpicking to say the word "rights" should be kept sacrosanct and not expanded to include things that the person talking thinks it's important for the government to spend money on.
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      Posted by $ 8 years ago
      "a right imposes no obligation on another" is the key Williams highlights succinctly and precisely.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 12 months ago
        90%. A right imposes on other individuals only the negative obligation to refrain from violating it.

        Governments, on the other hand, exist in order to protect our rights. If they won't bother, then there's no reason to have them.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
        I truly agree with him, but I wondered when I saw this line. I wonder how to answer the counter argument that free speech imposes an obligation on others to protect those who say unpopular things from mobs.

        I don't think this counter-argument is right, but I don't know how to refute it.
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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years ago
          How does listening to something unpopular obligate another?
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
            "How does listening to something unpopular obligate another?"
            If we guarantee the right to free speech, it obligates us to protect speakers from a mob that would try to silence them.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 7 years, 12 months ago
              The government can (and should) interfere if the mob attempts to use force against the speaker. It becomes a different issue - protecting one from the violence of others. As to the speech itself, the government should have no involvement at all.
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            • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 12 months ago
              That is a big 0.1% problem, that is quite indirect. You are also obligated to protect (or allow people to protect themselves) industrious people's property from a mob trying to take it. Does this make property ownership a tenuous right?
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 12 months ago
                "Does this make property ownership a tenuous right?"
                It would make all rights tenuous, if the argument were valid. It's not valid, though, for the reasons strugatsky and blarman said.

                If by 0.1% you mean a rare, fringe, or hypothetical case, I don't see it that way. It seems like the natural state for humankind is kings vs mobs, and we have to put energy into the system, in some form, to maintain liberty.
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        • Posted by $ 8 years ago
          I would phrase it differently, I agree. I think the obligation lies not with others to restrain the mob, but on the mob to restrain itself.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
            " I think the obligation lies not with others to restrain the mob, but on the mob to restrain itself."
            That's a good point. In the counter-argument scenario there is a bad actor who must be stopped. If you carry this to its conclusion, you could say all rights are at risk of bad actors taking them away. If that risk and the need to do work to protect them makes them not really rights, then there are no rights. So the counter-argument falls apart.

            The "right" to food is different, though, because it would require other people to work even if there were no bad actors.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
      Those are needs not rights. With all rights come responsibilities One is to the right to be able to honor the responsibility without interference .The basic needs are air, food, water, protection from elements and predators (clothes, shelter) access to medicines. The basic way for government to provide that is not take it in the first place.

      In sum Government has no right to take that which it takes to merely to survive.Which should be the first, foremost and rule in setting up any kind of government funding system.

      The Right To Survive costs therefore is a naural and not granted ban on what government may take not what the citizen must deduct.

      A government that takes and pretends to give back is a totalitarian fascist organization to be rejected at all costs. Let them find their fodder responsibly just like anyone else. They deserve no more

      A government that cannot take care of itself responsibly can certainly not take care of a country it's citizens.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 12 months ago
    It all boils down to there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. In reality it comes down to coercion. If people are forced by law to put up the money, then it is not free. If they refuse to contribute the money, the use of force comes into play. And what happens if ultimately the payer resists force with the use of force? You all know the answer. They die. Am I being extreme? A carful perusal of recent news will back me up entirely.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years ago
    Another misuse of the term "rights" comes from the legal profession where young lawyers are taught that "rights" can be and are granted by statute, e.g. "rights" of the handicapped to have handicap accessible entrances of all buildings open to the public, the "rights" of smokers to have a non-smoking environment in restaurants, "rights" to a minimum wage, and on and on. This use of the word is ubiquitous in the law and bleeds into common usage. People say "I know my rights" when what they mean is "I know what favors the government has enacted into law to benefit me." Note that has become commonplace in such contexts as the Miranda warnings. "You have the right to a lawyer and if you cannot afford one, one will be appointed for you" at government expense. Reversing this misuse of terminology will take a monumental effort over a long period of time.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
      Your last line no longere applies it's one of the civil rights that went away when the congress by a majority and the president did away with probable cause and inserted 'suspicion of'.'

      Mot of the rights they think the government have granted didn't exist in the Constitution and were not powers graned to the government. many of the others weren't granted by anyone in either direction. Government can grant no rights without permission of the people under the old system.

      Now it's what ever Comrade Obama decides when he wakes up in the morning or goes tango dancing in the afternoon.
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      • Posted by jabuttrick 7 years, 12 months ago
        I don't know what you mean by "[y]our last line." Do you mean the appointment of counsel? It is very much still in effect. As for probable cause, it is still the standard in a variety of contexts including search warrants, arrest warrants, and in pretrial criminal proceedings.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 12 months ago
    the right to travel does not include everyone's right
    to travel into my bedroom. . just as the right to free
    speech does not imply that it's good to yell "fire!" in
    a crowded theater, travel also has limits. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
      Most people know how tast to drive given conditions on any stretch of road. An old time officer pointed that out one day. If it's flowing smoothly and without danger let it flow. When the plic arameters change make your presence known and the public will adjust.

      Most peopple know the difference between private property and public property and that traveling in the wrong area is NOT a right granted.by the citizens themselves.

      For the rest we have jail cells where they start off learning the meaning of 6' x 8'.

      I especially like the way it's taught in the school yard whenm the school bulrly knocks over an intricately engineerd sand castle. and gets knocked on his as a result.. That shows some parent trained his kid right on how to throw and take a punch. Invariably that one will be vlass president in future years.

      But then we have the liberal parent who immediately calls a lawyer while his or her kid grow up the one of life's punching bags and the kid grows up to be a congressional.

      No leadership skills and still a punching bag.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 12 months ago
    Health care, housing, food, jobs, drugs are all commodities, not rights. As commodities, they are property. Calling them "rights" presumes they should be equal in distribution; they are not. It also presumes to achieve equal distribution, force (government) is a legitimate means to such an end. It is not. It is theft.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 12 months ago
      "Health care, housing, food, jobs, drugs are all commodities"
      I agree, but I prefer to call them goods and services. Commodities are non-differentiated. Gold is a commodity. You can't charge more for one type of gold b/c it's especially shiny or something. It's just an element. Those types of property you listed are differentiatable. Someone trying to sell you one of these things will do whatever they can to make it somehow special so you'll pay more. If the gov't provided them, it would treat them more like commodities than private vendors would.
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      • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 12 months ago
        Your preference is noted. But the same applies to goods and services: they are owned by individuals and, as such, are not "rights." Whether selling gold or a wedding cake, it is the right of the owner to decide when, how, how much and to whom value it is traded for value. No one initiates force within the transaction.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
          All goods and services are not basic needs for survival of individuals that require individuals responsibility to acquire. You have moved to a collective level which has it's own needs to survive and it's own rights to purse that responsibility without undue interference from government. with one added element. The right to conduct a business has the inherent responsibility towards it component parts the individual be it customer or employee. Government still sucks hind tit. It has only a few responsibilities police, military, setting standards and what else? Perhaps operating some essential functions such as sewer, water, hospitals, roads, the judiciary and the enforcement there of on behalf of it's employer the citizens. Not much else I can think of i certainly would think twice and thrice before giving it responsibility for education.
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          • Posted by jimjamesjames 7 years, 12 months ago
            A distinction without a difference, Mike. "Need" vs "want" is irrelevant. Health care is commodity composed, among other things, of the time, money, genius, effort, delay of gratification to achieve the ability to provide it. As such, it belongs to the person who achieved it. That "achievement" is not a right, it is a commodity to be traded value for value. The discussion of government's essential functions is a topic for another thread.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
              People in hell are like people who vote socialist. They think they think they need ice water but expect someone to pour it while they areleaning on the office cooler. They never consider the reason they think they think they need ice water. Why? Same reason they are in hell.

              Proof positive a need is not a right and is and some needs are created by wrong mmmm false premised lack of thinking.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 7 years, 12 months ago
    We have a right to pursue a lot of things politicians are calling absolute rights to have them them. That does not mean we are entitled to any of them, merely that we have a right to go for it, which translates into work, responsible actions, fair trade. This idea everyone has a right to have exactly what anyone has,is a play for power by the politicians who never intend to participate in this equality. Since not everyone in the world can have property, those who do will be asked to give it up, and let government have it - thus the selling of UN Agenda 21/2030 to the masses.When the list of rights exceed what the young people can get on their own, they will turn to government to get all they they have rights to for them, until it all crashes, and they have nothing they were promised. Rights are not entitlements, and are not cast in stone. If we do not act responsibly, we lose even real rights, as we should. Walter Williams is always such a beacon of reason.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
    We have or have had posted here several times meaning four to seven a list of the most common rigthts that don't exist and other urban myths. They number over one hundred.

    If they are found in he Federalist or Anti Federalist papers and not int he Constitution they are not a legal right.

    If they are found in the Declaration of Independence including that really stupid charge of it's being forged by adding a comma and not in the Consitutiton they are not a legal right.

    If they are in any number of other writings but not in the Constitution they are not a legal right.

    They may be a natural right and thee is some in fact a lot of weight to using the powers not specifically granted (9th and 10th amendment) and which explicity denies the government sticking it's nose in the anything that is not specifically granted - but the preponderance is on the the other side.

    The American public en masse has shown countgless times they are in favor of these depradations simply by continuing to vote the law breaker back into office.

    but historically speaking and since one of those depredations, most recently re-inforced- was the new operating rules of the patriot act - which doesn't deserve capitals - that did away with all the civil rights features without any protest whatsoever.

    That; was; when we had a Constituion not a dictatorship acting under the might makes right rules favored by all totalitarian fascists.

    Walter Williams is quite correct but it only serves to make a ;nice foot note on a piece written to astound and amaze future workers of the State when they ask Dad and Mom why did you vote us into slavery.

    Their wishes are in fact our marching orders.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 12 months ago
      The government we have is the result of incentive traps, especially the two party system and the structuring of tax bills so that each benefits a small, concentrated group while harming a much larger group (making it not worth their while to oppose). It is a fallacy to assume that most people, or indeed anybody but a few lobbyists, supports the system as it is just because it's in place.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years ago
    Natural Rights are free where as Government adorned rights cost your freedom.

    In progressivism, socialism, marxism and communism...government assumes it's your God and decides your rights.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 12 months ago
      rank nazism or national right before communism or equal to that perversion. Now you are seeing a true depiction of the left I would also put progressivism the other side of socialism and RINO Neo Con's where secular progressivism was.

      they have two things in common. All are fascist all put government and it's elitist ruling class over citizens of the country hell of the world.
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  • Posted by Donald-Brian-Lehoux 7 years, 12 months ago
    As a public servant, Kennedy received government sponsored health insurance coverage through the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program. But for Kennedy, that privilege only highlighted the inequality of America’s health care system. In case Trump changes his mind or he is screwed out of the nomination. Vote veteran someone that puts America B4 any party, we come from all backgrounds. Divide and conquer is what they do. End double standard,DC politician on Obamacare,SS mrpresident2016.com
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