The philosophy of Jesus vs. Ayn Rand: On Wealth

Posted by Robbie53024 12 years, 1 month ago to Philosophy
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Someone (sorry, I don't remember who) asked that we have more philosophical discussions here, so this is my attempt at doing so. If you're such an avowed atheist such that you cannot have a rational discussion and must resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks, then please stop reading this now and move along. However, if you would like to engage intellectually and rationally in a philosophical discussion, then I welcome your comments.

Oftentimes there are those who claim that religion is evil in that it decries money or the making of money, and claim that the essence of religion (or at least Christianity, but then if it is merely Christianity, what is the objection to other religions?) is altruism. Surely, you are familiar with the "Root of Money" speech by Francisco - I won't quote the entirety here, merely the claim that "Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears..." Which is a clear condemnation of altruism.

Matthew 6:24 states, in part, "You cannot serve God and wealth." Which many atheists take as you cannot be wealthy, thus you must give away your earnings but for a meager pittance to live on - you must be altruistic. I believe that this is a misunderstanding of the teaching about wealth. On the serving two masters - You can serve God which means to live a life of honesty, morality, and goodness; or you can serve money, which means to do whatever it takes to get ahead - lying, thievery, murder, etc. As so many are wont to do with this passage, it does not mean that you must take a vow of poverty or give all but a meager portion to live on to others. It also does not mean that if you have earned great wealth that you have not served God. This is a very simplistic view. In Matthew 19:23 "And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Hard, but not impossible. Hard because in the morality of the day one had to bribe, steal, lie - in essence be totally corrupt - to make much money. That was the culture of the time. If you were an honest person, you would likely be taken advantage of by those who were not. This was merely an acknowledgement of the world as it existed rather than a condemnation of hard work and high morality leading to becoming wealthy. On the contrary, it is likely that this very sentiment is what helped to lead to a less corrupt society and one that values honesty and truth instead of thievery and deceit.


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    "I do a limited amount of what some would consider altruism to help my students at Florida Tech have the equipment in place so that they can become the next generation of Galts."
    IMHO you could devote your life to helping students "altruistically" if you enjoyed it. It's your life. You can make things and trade them with other people. You can be idle and not have much to trade. You can give away your goods and services. It's your life. You can do whatever you want with it.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I would say that the divinity of Him knew that it was in his best interest. Jesus is God, and thus when he said "Yet not what I will, but what you will," he was indicating his subordination of his human form for his divine form. But it was still Him. This is the concept that causes atheists the most problem. They cannot accept that there is existence beyond an earthly life.

    It will be interesting about how the atheists react to the new movie "Heaven is Real." I'm sure it will be that this little boy had been coached or brainwashed, anything but accept that this is a piece of proof that there is an afterlife.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 12 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Jesus did understand the tradeoff asked of him. The question is whether he thought it was in his best interest or just a sacrifice that he was willing to make.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    going to have to disagree a bit. It seems quite clear that Jesus understood the trade-off asked of him, for he prayed "Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” Mark 14:32. He clearly understood the suffering that he would endure, and as a human being understood that this would be a tremendous amount of pain. He also understood the necessity of the action, from his divinity, and that his action would provide the gateway for all humanity.

    It is wrong, as many atheists want to charge, that Jesus is the ultimate altruist. Jesus did not sacrifice his being so that all humankind would be saved (that is a misinterpretation of scripture and Christian theology), rather he sacrificed himself in order to provide a gateway for humanity to attain salvation. He sacrificed for himself/God. You might say that it was the ultimate selfish act - providing a gateway for those who choose to take it so that they can become closer to God. He did it for himself, in essence so that his creation could have a pathway home. He also gave us free-will so that we can choose our path independently. It is our choice, not forced on us.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I see no conflation at all. God is real. Jesus was a real person. The fact that YOU cannot accept that others do find that reality indicates that you are unable to discuss this rationally.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 1 month ago
    I submit to you that the secularization of our society, and a burgeoning moral relativism has in fact caused much of the degradation of the qualities that Objectivists would hold in high esteem. Where the religious (of most persuasions - I don't claim to be a theologian or knowledgeable of all religions) see lying, cheating, stealing, murder as morally reprehensible, the moral relativist sees those traits as acceptable in the furtherance of their goals and objectives. In fact, they espouse a doctrine of BAMN - By Any Means Necessary. That's how we get man-made climate change proponents who advocate lying about data "for the greater good," and people who gladly accept "O' phones" with no feeling of guilt or shame that they are stealing from their fellow citizen, and a president who kills American citizens without due process of law because he has determined that they are an enemy combatant.
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