I am not fond of the dark arts. I not only refuse to watch horror shows, but I sometimes find Disney too dark for comfort. I am a 'puppies and flowers' person with respect to entertainment. (Actually, 'puppies and archetypal heroes and flowers'.) The darkest I get (and it is not actually dark) is listening to Wagner whilst sprawled on the couch with a glass of Cab.

Jan
(Finally saw Capt Am, The Winter Soldier - described on prior posts, this site. OMG. A movie with content?! Content that I actually agreed with?!...saw it again the next evening. Thx for the discussion of this movie.)

Assuming that you mean that 'dark art" contains a substantial amount of morbidity, yes there is a place for it in an Objectivist life. One can enjoy this form of art for a temporary emotional experience without it becoming a blueprint for a life's philosophy. A popular song of the 60s, "Is that All There Is," comes to mind, applying this question to a house fire and other everyday occurrences. The message here is: "Is That All There Is To Life?" The song also states, "Get out the booze." This fits the description of a chronically depressed person, and perhaps a prelude to suicide.

Sorry, I didn't find anything particularly dark about that music. In fact, I found quite a bit of it like commercial music in Italian films. :)

Now dark doesn't get anymore dark or dismal than this (don't cut your wrists listing to this):

Black Sabbath - http://youtu.be/B9XpxPj0lk4

Incidentally I hate the band and wouldn't listen to their music unless paid to. However, this is the the absolute darkest song I've ever heard - ever.

It depends on context. In music, I've always held that you're only as happy as what you listen to, which is a big part of why I've gravitated to everything from early Basia to the Japanese bands Judy and Mary, ShakaLabbits and Doll$Boxx in recent years.

"Dark" as an artistic concept is a peeve of mine, in that it's an attempt to make "cool" what is actually a synonym for: Evil. But like a lot of words these days, it's a broad brush that can encompass things that can be described as "dark" as a Venn diagram overlap, but which can be valuable and uplifting regardless.

I spent most of my teenage years imbibing nothing but stuff like Dio-era Rainbow, Montrose, Scorpions and Mahogany Rush, but the primary elements that made that music appealing (and still does,) is not the malevolence factor but rather the sense of adventure (in the lyrics and accompanying album graphics,) the instrumental chops, and the sense of energy and power (meaning: the power of determination, rebellion and just garden-variety enthusiasm for life.)

A song like Frank's "Something's Comin' Our Way" is a tad malevolent...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhif4fO7r...
...but for me that blistering jam was just like blasting into space - much like the late RonMon's tune "Space Station #5" with Mr. Hagar on vocal.

More recently, the Japanese metal band Onmyoza (likely the only metal band in history fronted by a husband-wife vocal team,) appeals to me for that same flavor of adventure. My still babysteps-level comprehension of Nihongo means I'm mostly oblivious to the lyrical content, but from what I've read the subject matter is generally Japanese folk legends about Yokai demons and such. That's malevolent and mystical to boot, but there is an entertainment value in stories dramatically and excitingly presented (not to mention with often stunning instrumental prowess,) even if comprehension of the story is limited to vague impressions. A great example is a vid they just posted for a new song called "Seiten no Mikazuki," roughly "Blue Sky of the Crescent Moon":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcVSDmJmJ...

As a caveat, I think that when you're in your teens you're a tad more angsty than later in life,. so you're a little more tolerant of unmitigated malevolence. These days I like to look for heavy music that's nevertheless upbeat, or which at least has a hard/soft balance, of which Onmyoza is a great example - their whole concept, down to the band name itself, is a riff on the yin/yang idea of hard/soft counterpoint.

"Horror" in film and literature is something I generally hate regardless of how much of it I consumed as a kid, but there are narrow areas of that too that can be thought-provoking and even light-hearted entertainment (pick any of John Landis' horror-comedy spoofs, like the classic "American Werewolf in London" or "Innocent Blood.") The Nicholson/Pfeiffer/Spader flick "Wolf" was actually a kind of superhero movie and a meditation on the volitional nature of morality, in the way the werewolf powers are used by, respectively, Nicholson's character - who struggles to control it and use it for good, or at least benign, purposes - and Spader's character, who is ruthless and evil. The Korean film "Spider Forest" had me scratching my head for a long time even after a repeat viewing, because it's a kind of logic puzzle.

So to make a long post even longer, I think there are positive elements to be gleaned from malevolent art works. But yes, you have to sift through this stiff carefully - like gold-mining in a swamp.

I must admit I have a bit of dark streak that I do well at keeping in check. Musically, I listen mostly to stuff that few here would probably be familiar with, though I prefer my darkness to have some artistic value. Here's just a couple from the top of my head.
TOOL:
http://youtu.be/JHdlhUfJ5qc
http://youtu.be/qJp2fTTvIig
http://youtu.be/_tcW-j7KFgY
http://youtu.be/2bKy57OeNU8

If you want something kinda dark, yet very smooth listening, with strong sensual overtones, any album by Morphine should set the mood. Good music to seduce a woman to. (If you're into that kinda thing)
http://youtu.be/XWKYxhyKja4 --
http://youtu.be/AnRMpIRVTUc
http://youtu.be/Q889itJ4Lr8
http://youtu.be/OirXJUQEzDM
http://youtu.be/qm2Lab-8Uto

While I like dark music, I can't say the same for most TV and horror movies. Shameless violence for the sake of shameless violence, I can do without...
That being said, I find most comedy nowadays to be anti-life in its consistent glorification of the fool and immature foolishness, that is geared towards the lowest common denominator; and in my opinion is just as bad or worse in some ways than a slasher film, though both are simply glorifying the worst in man, and therefore, wouldn't fit in with Rand's definition of good art.

to start I grew up in the late 80's Goth/industrial world. It was a place where those of us who didn't fit in ended up. So, despite popular images of that time place it was also where I met some of the best and brightest objectivists and libertarians I have ever met. Yea, there were plenty of leftys hanging around, but they seem to be pretty much everywhere. But, in the end you end up being attracted to and attracting the kinds of people you have the most in common with. Most of my friends from back then have gone on to do some pretty amazing things. This is especially interesting when you see where we all started. Pretty much all of us started out in families from the bottom of the income ladder.

So, as far as objectivism goes,I figure that if you value what the artist is doing then it is at least important to you. When it comes to art your judgment is what is most important since you are the one that has to live with the choice.

Back in the day this was in pretty heavy rotation amongst my friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwMkSvKo...

among my very good friends David Sylvian had a very special place..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmnLwRE...

Now, over the years I have met a lot of people who claim they will listen to anything. They are essentially avoiding the responsibility of having an opinion about what they actually like.

I really dislike the heck out of people who do not want to know what they like. I would be totally ok with someone that was willing to give something else a listen to figure out if they like it or not. But, that is not the same as claiming that you will listen to anything..

When I was living in Dedham a couple of years ago I was the designated driver one night and the passengers used the magic word...

Should have seen the looks on their faces when this came on..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6kRMM0...


After all they claim to like anything, and well.. I was kind of feeling it that night..

What means dark? Horror films, vampires, war stories, torture as state craft, scorning of the good for being the good (and how to define good), deliberate destruction of what is admirable and the elevation of the diseased, the ugly, the hopeless? Or the fact that some people like that sort of thing?

I missed out on decades of pop culture, was oblivious to the music being created and to the groups that drove crowds into a frenzy. I still don't understand that phenomenon; it seems the very essence of collectivism or tribal depersonalization. Isolated artists would catch my attention, like Yma Sumac, or Googoosh, or Yanni, or Roger Whittaker and Mongo Santamaria. I have trouble making out the words so generally prefer instrumentals.

Dark? What about jazz and blues and all those broken-heart country tunes?

Thanks for the link to Monica da Silva's music; what a lovely voice and face, clear pronunciation and lilting rhythms. What is dark about her? I could listen to her for hours.

If art, according to Rand, is to be uplifting, to show us a more exalted state of being, then the art one prefers is like a picture of one's soul, meaning one's psycho-epistemology, one's values and sense of life. Of course, we all respond in our own way to art others create. Even forms we think are negative can have a value in showing us what we don't want filling our life, or teaching us where the world stymies others from finding happiness. It's like the canary in the coal mines of our culture.

Humans are far too complex and diverse to have a monolithic standard of taste. Rand had her favorites, but having contempt for others who didn't share her tastes seems excessively judgmental. It's an all-or-nothing calculus, which is the template for totalitarianism, of whatever stripe. I might be puzzled by why some people like Black Sabbath, but I would not condemn them for it, as long as it doesn't impel them to harm me..

What is dark? A means of protesting against the wrongs one sees in the world? A catharsis or sublimated outlet for one's hopelessness and anguish? A way of not giving in to despair because evil is only a temporary aberration? Was "We the Living" Ayn Rand's way of purging the demons of her own youth under Bolshevism?

So we are asked to list here our own guilty pleasures on the dark side. Mine is Tim Minchin, an Australian actor, song writer, composer, performer, stand-up comedian, singer, virtuoso pianist, atheist, satirist, cultural critic, anti-religionist, poet, and debunker of frauds. Australia awarded him an honorary doctorate of letters. Most Americans haven't even heard of him. His liberal use of profanity is a smoke screen for deeper philosophical values; it's part of his schtick. Start with "Not Perfect" (only one F-word), "White Wine in the Sun" and "Peace Anthem for Palestine" (zero profanity), and "Three-Minute Song" (no F-word, just trickily concealed innuendos). His magnum opus, in my view, is "Storm", a nine-minute beat poem that is a virtual manifesto for rational living (with occasional vulgarities). And he does have a "Dark Side". If you like these, you might risk his more risque stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgsn7_hK... (Not Perfect)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UO6YlkY... (Peace Anthem for Palestine)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa... (White Wine in the Sun)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-ugFFXI... (3-minute song)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkJEp2Tb... (Storm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xQmJ_vx... (Dark Side)

I think it's much easier to think about what we feed the body than what we feed the mind; but the latter deserves as much attention.

However, for SOME people, horror is a "good" thing in that their mind or body needs, at that time, to feel what they're feeling, and a horror film (or whatever) gives them a safe "place" to do so. (Kind of like having a car that only does a lot of city driving - so needs to be taken out on the highway every once in a while and run at top and uninterrupted speed.)

This one strikes me as a dark bit of music. Listen to the lyrics, let yourself be immersed in them, and they are a black chasm.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgEVfjalThQ...

mine is White Stripes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2QdDbel...
mostly I avoid the dark arts. My son loves horror. I am always amazed and appalled at how much he enjoys that movie genre. I banned all horror films from family time viewing. funny, my daughter's next acting gig is the monster in a horror film, "HUSH."
https://www.facebook.com/HUSHtheMovie

ELO fire on high -that's dark and creepy to me. Beethoven not so much.

Thought it was pleasant listening. Don't know that I want to dance to it.