A Cashless Society Approaches

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 11 months ago to Economics
37 comments | Share | Flag

Here are a few excerpts below; but my question is what happens when the lights go out...I mean...OUT for a long time...this is Not chicken little stuff...as we always have been but especially over the next 15/20 years...it is very likely that the whole global grid will go down...so...what cha gona do then?
It's just like the governments, the kakistocracies, to not look ahead for possible disruptions...

"Not everyone is cheering. Alderman noted that Sweden's embrace of electronic payments has alarmed consumer organizations and critics who warn of a rising threat to privacy and increased vulnerability to sophisticated Internet crimes."

"It might be trendy," said Bjorn Eriksson, a former director of the Swedish police force and former president of Interpol. "But there are all sorts of risks when a society starts to go cashless."

Despite the conveniences, even some who stand to gain from a cashless society see drawbacks. According to Jacob de Geer, a founder of iZettle which makes a mobile-powered card reader: "...But Big Brother can watch exactly what you're doing if you purchase things only electronically".

He concluded: "Liberty will be non-existent. However, it will be sold to us as expedient simplicity itself, freeing us from crime: Fascism with a friendly face. Perhaps the scariest consequence of all is that an individual can be "terminated" by a bureaucrat erasing his identity. Do not kid yourself, it will happen. Real 'Mark of the Beast' stuff".
SOURCE URL: http://www.globalwatchweekly.com/articlea07apr16.htm


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 11 months ago
    And another thing… Cash is not anonymous. Every banknote has a unique serial number. If, in the production a note is ruined, it is destroyed, but replaced by another with the same number but denoted with a Star. (This is for the USA. I do not know about other nations.)

    Banknotes have always had serial numbers. If you have ever seen an old police drama, when they make a sting, they write down the serial numbers of the notes, then catch the criminal with those bills.

    However, coins are anonymous. Right now, silver is at $15.46 (ask) and gold is at $1239.40 (ask). At any coin store in America, generic silver rounds such as the American Silver Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, etc., are about $20 each. For the same $20 you can get generic US silver dollars (Morgans and Peace), which have 0.773 oz (troy) of silver. The old US coins have higher demand.

    Gold is also available as modern American Gold Eagles, classic US gold, modern world gold and classic world gold. You can buy 19th century UK Sovereigns 0.2435 oz gold for about 10% over spot. (If you want the spot price, buy your own 100-oz bar in Chicago.)

    And there's US dimes and 1/10 oz gold and UK sterling three pence, and all kinds of small change out there. And people who will take it. You just have to ask. It won't work in a Big Box store, of course. It just depends on what you want and who can provide it. (Please do not bring up Executive Order 6102. By 1938 with gold "illegal" the Numismatic Chronicle magazine was carrying ads for gold coins priced according to the London Fix.)

    In WIlliam Gibson's "Sprawl" trilogy, people trade with New Yen, demonetized notes, no longer "good" but limited in number and easy to use. Sounds like science fiction, but, in Iraq, at least for some time, maybe a couple of years, people in Kurdish areas used the last issue of Saddam Hussein. They were "worthless", indeed, but there were never going to be any more. They were counters, accounting symbols.

    Read about community currencies like Bay Bucks (http://www.baybucks.org/content/direc...) and Ithaca Time Dollars (http://ithacahours.com). In poor places in Latin America, Africa, and Asia, they use tally boards for the same purpose. You can do it on a computer, but the paper is prettier.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      I've been buying gold and silver in very limited amounts as I can and I have heard about local currencies and time dollars.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 11 months ago
        You know, using checks was potentially like putting your affairs on the front page of the newspaper, but no one complained about privacy back then. I grant that the government may not seem to have been so intrusive back then, but that is not necessarily true.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 11 months ago
          Debit cards largely replaced checks because (at least here in California), other than the local Raleys grocery store, I don't think anyone will take them.

          Checks are still used for utilities and paying bills, I automate mine with USAA's excellent bill payment service but it is largely the same as it always was.

          Mobile commerce, like a Starbucks or Amazon app are probably going to grow somewhat, but I don't think our basic medium of exchange, or minted currency will change much. How much is in circulation will, but that is just consumer preference.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
          Time and technology has played a role in the wishes of creatures without conscience.
          I assert that they are not human in the same senses as we are or have the potential to be...in my book I identify them as: Parasitical Humanoids.
          They are only 2 parts of the 3 part equation...meaning they are only a brain in a body.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 11 months ago
    One of the things that is very interesting to me was a psychological study that identified that paying for things with cash was mentally/psychologically painful: http://jcr.oxfordjournals.org/content.... What this meant is that when one pays for an item using cash, one is quite literally painfully aware of the effort it took to acquire that cash and therefore that the purchase is more meaningful. When one pays for an item using credit, on the other hand, there is no trigger in the brain that associates that decision with its real meaning in terms of effort.

    In shorthand, paying with cash means more than paying with credit and those who rely on credit (and to some degree virtual funds) don't place the same value on money that those who pay with cash do. Explains an awful lot in this world, if you ask me.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago
    Here we call it Cycle of Economic Repression. In sweden it's State Economics. The difference is they are not a true socialist society but one with socialist pretensions based on a capitalist economic system. All of the so called socialist countries are that way. Except for Greece and Cuba. State Economics is Marxist Leninist economics with a veneer of heavily controlled capitalism - to one degree or another. However it's sliced it's still controlled. China has gone full tilt to the idea of using capitalism to support a socialist culture. Wow...some one finally gets it. Socialism has no way short of stealing to support itself. As for that definition ...with a thin veneer of.... It's copied from the days of Adolf, Benito and their kind and is the original definition of Fascist Economics. Which brings us back in the USSA!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 11 months ago
    There is another of these "cashless society crackdown" threads in the recent list, that one from marc, with 28 comments and 5 "Likes." It is nonsense. The comments reveal a total lack of historical knowledge or social insight.

    The Zero Tolerance Drug Wars began with Richard Nixon. They even appointed a Drug Czar. How's that working out for them? If they had just left it alone, it would have not been worse. But the point is that "they" cannot stop anything. Crime or the lack of it -- and I prefer the lack of it -- is a consequence of social culture which is the aggregate of individual choices.

    What I read here is an aggregate of paralysis, paranoia, surrender, and retreat.

    Read The Fountainhead for the tragedy of Gail Wynand, He was not a nice guy. Ever. And Rand did not laud him for the virtues of Howard Roark which he lacked. Can you imagine Howard Roark leading a gang? Wynand did. Can you image Roark bullying kids? No, he wanted to be left alone. But Rand nodded to the boys in the classroom who could not be controlled, the ones with the fast fists. She was not endorsing violence and aggression. She was giving symbolic meaning to assertion.

    The government only has the power that you give it. In a rational world, we all give it the power of physical force in defense of rights. Beyond that, what power do you give it? You give it free rent in your mind -- and then wonder why it has taken over the house.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      Ah, but everyone is missing my main concern...the loss of our electrical grid, which brings it all down and that is not nonsense...it's happened before and in the current cycle we are in and headed it is bound to happen again and few are prepared.
      Could it be coincidence that governments and central banks want to move in this direction at this particular time?....naw, their not smart enough for that...but they are cunning though...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by plusaf 7 years, 11 months ago
    Years ago.. no, decades ago, I wrote dozens of checks... no, probably scores of checks every month. Balanced my checkbook religiously and actually closed one checking account I could not get to balance after several months' efforts.
    Years ago, I'd take about $200-300 a month out of our checking account via the autoteller, stash it in a dresser drawer and keep about $60 in my wallet at all times.
    It's been months since I've done that, even since the autoteller limit was raised from 200 a day to 300 locally. Today, several $20's still sit in the drawer, maybe $100 worth, and I still keep about $40 in my wallet.
    But I also notice that our Cash Burn Rate, now done via everyday Visa charges, auto-payments via the bank to routine bills and bank-mailed checks to other services, triggered online by me via my bank... All those payments comprise a Burn Rate of about $3,000-$6,000 per month!
    Virtually no 'money' is used by me, and I essentially never carry coins in my pocket, either. They just wear out pockets. If I get change from a rare cash transaction it goes to my wife for her piggy-bank 'coin collection' which she empties once or twice a year at the automated machines at the grocery.

    I don't see a 'problem' with a 'cashless' world as you seem to describe it.

    As I occasionally joke to the cashier in the supermarket... "I'm waiting for the implant in my wrist that I can wave over a reader here to pay my bill"... and at the hardware store, gas station, restaurant...

    So, in other words, "... and the Problem Is???"
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      All the changes you describe have contributed to the fact that the young make no connection between effort and outcome because they do not see, feel nor participate in the process. You do because you've engaged in the physical. Today the physical is not reality...it is the unseen cloud and the means of acquisition come out of thin air.
      There are just some things we should never throw out by the wayside.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago
      Get in trouble with the law for any reason and they can shut off your supply of money while you hope you can fix the problem with them. So many laws now that you prob violate several per day at least. Being on this forum will someday get you in trouble for treason for example
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by plusaf 7 years, 11 months ago
        So hoarding cash or precious metals is the most effective way to attack the Root Cause off government's powers to shut off my money if I'm not using cash?

        Hmmmm Interesting logic and 'solution.' [not]
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by plusaf 7 years, 11 months ago
        So hoarding cash or precious metals is the most effective way to attack the Root Cause off government's powers to shut off my money if I'm not using cash?

        Hmmmm Interesting logic and 'solution.' [not]
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 7 years, 11 months ago
          I didnt imply that hoarding cash or precious metals attacks the root cause of government's powers, but it does permit individuals to survive in spite of the government's power to cut off banking services. Imagine if you didnt hoard a bit of wealth and the government allowed you to use only $100 a day or less because of some sort of banking emergency.

          If people did in fact find some way to avoid the banks and the fiat currency (dollars), and trade amonst themselves, THAT might have a significant effect on the ability of the government to exert control over citizens.

          Attacking the "root cause" as you mention is going to be dependent on a complete philosophical revolution, which is going to take longer than I have left on this earth, and probably longer than you have left too.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
    Orwell visualized a "Big Brother" society in which every detail of everyone's life was constantly under scrutiny by the state. Our electronic, soon-to-be cashless society will hasten this right along. If our dependency on electronics gets disrupted, it will cause instant chaos and the rapid disintegration of all except the most primitive societies. We'd better fear the next solar electromagnetic wave from the sun. It could put civilization out of business.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 11 months ago
    The next guy in front of me at the airport that buys gum with a credit card (taking 5 minutes to dial up, and get a little printout) is going to have an accident!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      Please make a video of that Accident...I promise it will go viral!
      Laughing cause I feel your pain.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 11 months ago
        I am up for suggestions. Being a soccer and judo player, tripping is pretty natural, but perhaps inadequately venomous. Perhaps detaining them for an equivalent waste of time would send a message.
        "Excuse me sir/maam. I was wondering if I could have a moment of your time to consider this petition. It is to penalize the rich banks for their credit/debit card policies. You see, they allow their cards to be used for all size transactions. Isn't it amazing? I know... They allow little smug pukes like you to waste everyone's time to avoid the trivial challenge of carrying cash...We all hope you enjoyed your equally wasted 5 minutes."
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 11 months ago
          I have thought that if I were running a grocery su-
          permarket I would have segregated lines: separat lines for people paying with cash; maybe one line for cash, one for checks and one for credit cards.(Of course, now I use a plastic SNAP card to get food until it runs out for the
          month; the store clerk has me swipe it in a ma-
          chine, then punch in a PIN number, then it's ap-
          proved and I get my food).
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
          Maybe you could get Jesse Waters of Waters World to do this petitioning for you...then when they don't get it...you come in with an appropriate Judo chop!
          ...enjoying a good laugh picturing this in the right hemisphere of my brain.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 11 months ago
    Nonsense. Cash will always be with us. After all, we still trade wheat for cows. And cashless can still be anonymous. I don't mean "Bitcoin" or its copies, but simply that public key encryption was developed in part not just for secreting information, but also for validation and authentication in low-trust situations, i.e,, a cash-like mediator between individuals who have no other ties.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo