The High Price of Ignorance: Paypal Rejects North Carolina

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 7 months ago to Culture
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"The law, which overturned a Charlotte city ordinance, was widely interpreted as an attack on LGBT rights. State lawmakers also voted to prohibit local governments from enacting anti-discrimination protections based on sexual orientation and gender identity."

"The new law perpetuates discrimination and it violates the values and principles that are at the core of PayPal's mission and culture," Dan Schulman, Chief Executive Officer said in a statement.

In a letter on March 29, founders and chief executives of more than a hundred companies, including Apple Inc (AAPL.O), Twitter Inc (TWTR.N) and Alphabet Inc (GOOGL.O) urged North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory to repeal the legislation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nor...


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  • 12
    Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 7 months ago
    Why has nobody recognized the fact that the law protects the 51% [or more] of the population that is Female from having the female restrooms invaded by any pervert that wants to make out that he is LGBT. WTF! The bill should have been named the Woman and children's protection act. News-flash, the primary promoter of the original charlotte ordinance was outed as a sex offender!!!! http://keepncsafe.org/charlotte-lgbt-...
    With any normal issue this could have made the politicians tuck their tails and disappear...but not with this issue!
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
      I do not know where you live, but in several states, including Texas, "Family" restrooms exist in which people of any and all genders can be together for convenience. Otherwise, you have a problem with parenting …

      Human society has been moving in a different direction since the Enlightenment. We are on the verge of a singularity that will allow individual transformations of great potential. This is just part of that trend. Like throwing the British Tea in the Harbor, the action itself is not the question: it is the symbol that the action creates that expresses the coming change.

      The moral failings of Chad Turner, such as they may be, do not alter the facts.
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      • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 7 months ago
        Let's just deal with some FACTS. If you have a y-chromosome, you're a man, regardless of your fantasies to the contrary. Since when is one's fantasies a license to invade the privacy of the women's bathroom, which is a private, safe place for a woman to handle her private business?!? What they're conflating is one's physical characteristics, like race or ethnicity (and even gender) with one's behavior driven by a fantasy. One's FEELINGS have no place in law, only FACTS. Enacting laws based on one's feelings negates any pretense at legal protection, and renders the law into a sick joke. Just because a surgeon can manipulate one's plumbing, to reinforce the fantasy doesn't change the fact that the dreamer has a y-chromosome. In the final analysis, DNA trumps the fantasy. If one wants to indulge such a fantasy, knock yourself out. Just don't attempt to rope all of society into the game. Leave others alone, and enjoy the flight of fancy.
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      • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 7 months ago
        "As for who is an "offender" or not an "offender" " I'm sorry...are you referring to the sex offender I was referring to? You are not trying to re-cast him as a victim of crazed government are you? The guy is just a Damned Pervert trying to get full legal access to the women's bathroom so he can engage in more acts.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
          His crime is what it was. He was convicted and served a sentence. If his crime had been something else, would matter so much to you?
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          • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 7 months ago
            No it wouldn't mean as much. But for the same reason you would not hire a bank robber as a clerk at a bank you would look askance at a registered sex offender who is trying to get access to the women's restroom. And you would rightly question his motives. It is very reasonable to assume that he is just trying to get the opportunity to commit more of his perverse Acts. Why is that so hard to understand?
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      • Posted by JCLanier 9 years, 7 months ago
        MikeM: I appreciate your originality and often refreshing views on different subjects. I am trying to understand your point on this topic.

        Your 2nd paragraph, " Human society has been moving...", is powerful- why must it come through the bathroom door?
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    • Posted by $ splumb 9 years, 7 months ago
      Exactly!
      And mark my words, rapes will happen. It nearly did to me, back in my college days. I was in a somewhat deserted part of the building when I got caught short. I dashed into the ladies room and there was a man, pants down and waiting. I ran like hell.
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  • 10
    Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 7 months ago
    Let the free market respond.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 7 months ago
      I agree, Amazon has a competing service, I'm sure it will do just fine in North Carolina. I'm personally getting very sick of these "bully tactics" by the left, their pandering corporations, etc. "If you don't do our bidding, we'll burn your city or fire all our employees in your state". Fine! Do it. Then we'll lock your ass up or Not buy your products.

      I'm not understanding the stretch here, my wife and I were in a Sears store not long ago to pickup a Samsung TV that was on sale for our RV, and the only person in the department was this freak of a teenager (male), wearing women's high heels, a dress, a bone or something through his nose (septum), long hair in a clasp/pony-tail, hadn't shaved, but wearing makeup and eye shadow. Really? He couldn't have just put on some khakis and a shirt, shaved, skipped the makeup to go to work in? Why is it necessary to scream "I'm a freak and you have to accept me!"? Somehow I suspect he didn't show up for the job interview looking like that. I don't feel the need to walk around with a sign on my forehead that says I'm a heterosexual, I don't understand the need for self-fulfillment. It's more about shoving it in society's face, not meeting some kind of unfulfilled personal actualization. I ordered the stupid thing for will-call pickup from the Sears website on my iPhone and walked over to the customer service counter to pick it up.

      In North Carolina's case, I can see the horny little 14-21 year old perverts putting on their sister's dress just to hang out in the women's bathroom or locker rooms. The law was very specific about the high school & college locker rooms by the way.

      That has nothing to do with being discriminatory, this is just common sense.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
        Going back and forth on who looks freaky to whom is a pointless discussion. Positing the existence of unknown entities ("… horny little 14-21 year old perverts putting on their sister's dress…") is not a strong argument.

        You create an interesting set of bed-fellows in "… the left, their pandering corporations, etc. …" Etc could be anybody, but just the left and corporations together suggests to me that you blame collectivists for the existence of capitalism. To quote a famous cartoon: "You need to be more explicit in Step 2." In other words, you have to show that "the left" and "corporations" have so many commonalities that they are natural allies, as, in fact, they themselves tend to see things quite differently.
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  • Posted by $ bigjim 9 years, 7 months ago
    If you are referring to Paypal's ignorance, not to mention their hypocrisy then yes, we can all hope that they will pay a very, very high price.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 7 months ago
      I doubt they turn down business in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Mexico, or Russia - all with much more oppressive gay discrimination.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
        The question is not from whom you accept business, but where you locate your business. Also, of course, you must pick your battles. The city of Charlotte is an agency of change in North Carolina, as are the 100 corporations that otherwise would have considered it as a place of business.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 7 months ago
          I don't actually care, I'm not homophobic, I just get offended when I'm being "forced" to comply with something. I have my rights and my religious freedom as well.

          There are both the discriminatory issues, and there are also the issues of expectation of privacy for the majority which are not LGBT, the issue in NC is mostly about which bathroom and locker room is used, not some activity that precludes them from marriage, living somewhere, etc. LGBT is also not a protected-class as identified by the ADA either, so in my opinion reasonable accommodation does not apply.

          The 'bullying' tactics are exactly that - Trump can't give a speech because the Bernie voters will burn down the city. Well, that completely infringes on the rights of Trump and any of his followers. NC can't pass a law that protects 96% of their population's right to privacy because PayPal and Apple might not put their next office there. Really?

          Has anyone ever thought that the practice of allowing cross-dressers in high school to do whatever they want might not be taken advantage of by young pranksters that are simply not a cross-dresser or transgender? When I was a kid, I might have put on a dress to use the girl's locker room for a couple of days. Particularly in college in the fall when no one knows who is supposed to be there. The easiest answer is, use the one that matches your plumbing. Case solved. That's all they did.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 7 months ago
    What our country needs is radically reduced federal government power and size. Leave things to the states who compete with each other for citizens. That way we move with our feet to other places. I moved to Nevada from California 20 years ago to avoid the higher taxes and regulations, and I am happy I did. Now the taxes and regulations have been imported from california and its time to move away from Nevada
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago
    That's fair. I rejected Paypal for sloppy or non existent customer service.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 7 months ago
      Ain't that the truth?! Me too!
      Also, if you sell on eBay, don't make more than $500 using Paypal.
      That's all the earnings Paypal gives you back on an annual basis. Guess they invest the rest.
      Such was my Paypal experience back during Year 2005.
      Back then I learned eBay has crappy customer service also. I've long moved on from both.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 7 months ago
    The role of government is to protect "boundaries" around the individual.
    We normally (as Objectivists) define the term "boundaries" as protection against force and fraud.
    Personally, I view this push to change gender norms and the promotion of "feelings" as a tool of cognition to be very disturbing.
    This isn't an argument of "ignorance vs. enlightenment". Rather it is an argument about the primacy of reason and reality vs. the primacy of feelings.
    Just in case no one here has noticed, the Left uses a lot of false guilt and shame to manipulate to get their way.
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  • Posted by Stormi 9 years, 7 months ago
    Why can't businesses stick to what they usually are not doing well, conducting business with good customer service - regardless of gender identity, of course! Stay out of telling us how to live, just make using your system less of a hassle. I am sure Kasich would love them to come to Ohio, where he is saying so many are coming, without netting how many are leaving. Could the draw for the south be less union issues?
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  • Posted by RevJay4 9 years, 7 months ago
    PayPal favors pedophiles and other perverts, apparently, having their way with children and women. Why else approve an ordinance which allows sexually confused individuals to choose the facilities they feel comfortable in utilizing at the moment. What a bunch of PC moronic ingoramuses.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
    I recommend carrying a reservoir type catheter.
    If #2 is the problem, a self sealing baggy and toilet tissue can be carried if needed.
    If, on the other hand, the person in question has gone through the pain of surgery and hormonal replacement, then they should be allowed to go to whichever facility they have been re-sexed for. They have paid the price of admission.
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    • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 7 months ago
      No they haven't. All they've done is gone to an extreme to indulge a fantasy. If you have a y-chromosome, you'll never be a woman. Period.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
        Correct, if being a woman is only a body and not a mental attitude. ZA painful indigence indeed. What's the harm? The body now resembles female. Also, I think we make too much of nudity and bodily functions. All mammals work the same way. The only thing that makes it a big deal is traditions based on biblical commands as a way of further pushing male superiority. If nudity was common, you could bet that some other function would be taboo. Perhaps eating. That might become a bodily function only performed behind closed doors, allowing for a messy act, cleaned up for presentation afterwards. We waste too much time on the unimportant which takes away from the important.
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  • Posted by rbunce 9 years, 7 months ago
    In NC municipalities are State Chartered Municipal Corporations created by the NC Legislature with very limited powers defined in State Statutes and in each municipalities Charter. The City of Charlotte like every other municipality in the State did not have the power to set restroom usage law within it's municipal boundaries. State Statute(s) cover that topic for the entire State including within all municipalities. The Legislature instead of passing another Statute should have stated that Charlotte does not have the power to make the changes it made via municipal ordinance. Unfortunately the Majority instead fed their base with unneeded rhetoric on the issue. Business owners subject to public accommodation laws should begin the conversion to single user restrooms without any gender or sex identity.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 7 months ago
    We need a laissez-faire system so that private
    property owners can set the policy on their own
    private property. As to publicly-owned buildings
    (courhouses, etc.) the men should stick with the
    men and the women should stick with the women. Maybe some people are born into the
    wrong sex and need a sex change operation. I
    don't know. But the rule in regard to that should
    be that, until you get such an operation, you
    stick with the sex you were born into, and whose
    genital equipment you have on your body, re-
    gardless of your psychological feelings about it.
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  • -3
    Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
    "PayPal said it is now looking for another site for the center and has not yet made a decision on location."
    Hopefully some place with a good record on LGBT rights, a strong software/tech eco-system, but lower costs than the San Fran / San Jose area.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago
      You missed the mark here entirely. The statewide law wasn't discriminatory - it protected the rights of people - especially women - to privacy and protection. That PayPal (among others) choose to side with the 1% of people who chose an alternative lifestyle over the other 99% is ridiculous.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 7 months ago
        I don't know if it's really 1%, but it appears to be concentrated in industries creating value. If your claim is true people like their Google, Netflix, Amazon, PayPal, but not the people who make them.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago
          I really have no idea what your comment was supposed to say.

          The original statute passed by the Charlotte city council mandated that all businesses in Charlotte subordinate their patrons' and employees' rights to privacy in restrooms to those of a few. Those few claim that their right to gender self-identification entitles them to ignore the rights to privacy of everyone else. That's just wrong any way you slice it. That's the tyranny of the minority trampling over the right of the individual to own themselves (privacy is derived from the right to own one's self).
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 7 months ago
      Me Old Dino me have me idea.
      Me gonna eats lots of beans and cabbage.
      Me gonna put on dress and go into Paypal ladies room.
      Me gonna sing in a stall songs about the joy of flatulence.
      Then me come out still singing and farting, now dancing, tearing off sheets of toilet paper and tossing sheets high into the air.
      That tearing off sheets bit is to add a feminine touch to me repertoire.
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