FLASHBACK: Ayn Rand Shocks Female Crowd: I Would Never Vote For a Woman President

Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years ago to Philosophy
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Didn't someone already post this one, I 've seen it before but this the first time I have listened to it.

In any case...your thoughts
SOURCE URL: http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/flashback-ayn-rand-shocks-female-crowd-i-would-never-vote-woman-president


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  • Posted by lrshultis 8 years ago
    It began with an interview with 16 prominent women in Jan. 1968 McCall's, where she said: "I would not want to be President and would not vote for a woman president. A woman cannot reasonably want to be a commander-in-chief. I prefer to answer the question by outlining what a rational man would do if he were President."
    She answered the many letters that she received by students in the vol 7, no. 12 1968 issue of The Objectivist. She started by that they study her heroines in her novels, especially Dagny Taggart. It was more about wanting to rather than whether a woman could do the job, but had to do with values. She indicated that it would not take much for a woman to do a better job than most of the presidents up to 1968.Regarding the presidency, she said not to ask " 'Could she do the job and would it be good for the country?' Conceivably, she could and it would---but what would it do to her?" Her essence of femininity was hero-worship which she considered "the desire to look up to a man." Where, "To look up" does not mean dependence, obedience or anything implying inferiority. It means an intense kind of admiration..."
    She says that "for a rational woman, would be an unbearable situation." speaking of the position of the President with relationship to every one in the executive branch being inferiors under the president.
    She ends the article with, "For a woman to seek the Presidency is, in fact, so terrible a prospect of spiritual self-immolition that the woman who would seek it, is psychologically unworthy of the job."
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years ago
    Ayn Rand commented on feminists back in the late '60's:

    "Feminism has surpassed me in one respect; I had no idea that it was possible to blow the character of Comrade Sonia up to such gigantic proportions."

    There is no way she could have been thinking of Shrillary when she made this comment, but it certainly fits.
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  • Posted by khalling 8 years ago
    margaret thatcher, Benazir Bhutto, Golda Meir...cleopatra, Elizabeth, geez
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years ago
      countered by my quick memory by Hilariy Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Christine Gregoire, Maria Cantwell, Patsy Schroeder, Patty Murray, Kathleen Blanco Blanco, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, and Rachel Carson. The leaders of NOW who turned their backs on their sisters in favor of cute butt Bubba There's ten off the top of my head without thinking harder to couontger your list. And that's just one country.

      My point is there are as many that should be shunned but as long as the USA keeps women in second place as second class citizens and baby factories you aren't going to see much better. And I didn't even mention the leadership of NOW who turned their backs oh their sisters in favor of Bubba Cute Butt
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      • Posted by $ 8 years ago
        American values does not keep women in second place...maybe not as much today due to perverse feminism, but we have in the past put women up on a peticle and "a good" women is just as important as a good man...each plays a role in that process. Only a pagan bicameral narcissist keeps a women barefoot and pregnant. (doesn't Japan, china, russia and muslims think that way) That's old testament thinking, which was not a religion, it was just history.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years ago
      So why did she feel that a women would not or should not want to be president.
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      • Posted by khalling 8 years ago
        I can't remember it-maybe it was about being a mother. I did not agree with her thinking
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        • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
          I think it had something to do with her feeling that a man should be the head of the country. I think the mother thing was secondary. I see where she was coming from, but I don't agree. After all, she's the one who said everyone is an individual.
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          • Posted by $ 8 years ago
            If I remember my Neothink lessons correctly it was about the differences celebrated between men and women and how that manifests out in society, our behavior and our relationships with one another. Feminist and eastern philosophies don't like that natural law observation but it was objective and fit well into her thinking. We are made differently with specific purpose no matter how one wants to think that happened...it is self evident.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
              We are not made for someone else's purpose. We choose our own purposes, as individuals.
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              • Posted by $ 8 years ago
                I am speaking of how we are designed at the cellular level, how the cosmos and everything in it is designed and yes we each are so varied and that equals a propensity of some sort but the basis of the information each cell in our bodies carries one of two purposes...no matter where the rest of leads to, it cannot be physically denied.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
                  Maybe it's nitpicking for me to object to calling it "design". I call it adaptation.

                  I hear about athletes who are not built for their sport. We judge their success based on their performance in the sport, not the performance of people with similar features.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 8 years ago
    Yes, I remember this.

    Rand held that no rational woman would want to elevate herself to a social, political, or other station superior to that of any man she is likely to meet. That went double, in her mind, for the Presidency of the United States--because the United States was then the most powerful (militarily) of all the nation-states of the world.

    And the reasons were entirely--are you ready for this?--sexual.

    In her world, the man always dominated during sex. (I surmise from this that she utterly abominated homosexual or bisexual orientation and practice--and again, because such practice offended her aesthetically only.) How, she then asked, can a man take a dominant position in a relationship in which the woman holds a more important job than his? For Rand, sex reflected the rest of life. She did not "compartment" personal intimacy.

    So she decided: no rational woman would want the job of POTUS, because such a woman would shut herself out from any kind of sexual enjoyment. Any woman who would take pleasure in being in the dominant position, or holding the dominant rank, she would consider dangerous to life, liberty and property, and would vote against her for that reason alone.

    Now look at Hillary Clinton. Her history is of having a husband for show, and having to indulge him, directly or...indirectly, if you catch my drift. That's why Rand would never vote for her, in addition to her demonstrable criminality while in office, and since her leaving it, to say nothing of her lock-step down-the-line advocacy of grand theft. (A thief is an unauthorized wealth-redistribution agent.)

    On the other hand, someone already mentioned Baroness Thatcher, Golda Meir, and especially Queen Elizabeth I. I wouldn't cite Cleopatra VII--she got what she wanted through her manipulation of the Roman Dictator Julius Caesar and later the Roman Proconsul Marcus Antonius. I would cite Hatchepsut, the first woman in any nation-state to dare call herself a king--that is, a regnant monarch. I can tell you this: Hatchepsut definitely had her share of detractors who accused her of using sex as an advancement tool. (You find that on at least one off-color tomb drawing.) As to Elizabeth I, all accounts say she never married precisely because she never met the man she could trust implicitly to content himself with the role of Prince Consort. In the ultra-violent Tudor era, her decision might have been entirely appropriate. But Queen Victoria, the next English regnant queen to have a long reign, did not so abstain. Recall Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, her consort for many years. Not to mention the current reigning Queen Elizabeth II and her consort, Philip Mountbatten, Duke of Edinburgh. (Though that marriage isn't very happy, either--I think the consortship has always chafed him.)

    Judge for yourselves whether Rand's concern had any validity at all--and definitely judge whether it would be the deal-killer she thought it was.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 8 years ago
    Ayn Rand was correct in suggesting that we have fallen pretty low when a woman candidate was a better choice than any male candidate that could be found (for a, historically, male oriented position). It's not much different than when Bruce Jenner was voted "Woman of The Year", or something like that. Were there no "true" women in the world, more qualified than him?

    I'm not going to say that a woman could never be President...I'm merely saying that our current PC culture is not up to the task of selecting the "right" woman and we would likely end up with a very poor alternative, to be sure.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years ago
    WELL>>>>>
    No one can be right all the time.
    While I admire Ms. Rand greatly, in this matter, I cannot agree with her. She has, in this particular matter, the old eastern European bugaboo, that because of hormones, genetics, etc. a woman cannot be a person who conducts war. I think that had she lived for another 10 years she might have changed her mind -- or not.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
    I think one thing that Rand longed for in her life was a man she could look up to, and I personally don't think she ever found it. It would be wrong for a woman to diminish herself in order to have a man in a dominant position. I don't think Rand even found a man who would be her equal.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years ago
    I disagree with her on this, even though women are
    commonly viewed as more likely to be pacifists than
    men. . I am confident, from personal experience with
    some very fine women, that there definitely are those
    who would be fine commanders-in-chief. . I knew one
    with an IQ of 165 who could out-think most men in the
    realm of business and politics and common sense.
    then, there was the one who went straight to her MS
    in engineering without bothering with the bachelor's.
    then there were the ones who started their own businesses
    just to be independent and creative and, yes, self-
    defensive. . they are out there, IMHO. . we may have
    some here in the gulch. . just hide and watch! -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Esceptico 8 years ago
    Just part of clay on the feet of Idol Rand. For all the good she did, poor lady (Rand) made many mistakes and this is but one.
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    • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
      It was not a mistake to identify the naure of femininty and why a woman should not want to be a commander in chief. Her expanation was perfectly rational. Speaking as a woman her viewpoint takes on greater credibility. Why do you suppose women in combat is discouraged?
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      • Posted by Esceptico 8 years ago
        I do not understand what you mean by the “nature of femininity” in the context of being president or running an organization –- I think I understand the nature of femininity in the context of male/female relationships as well as a male can and I love the differences. And, I can understand why Rand herself might not want to be president, but to generalize that to all women seems to me to extrapolate too far. As to women in battle, those who want to go fight should be allowed to go do it as equality demands — here I do not see how this applies to the Rand statement that she would not vote for a woman president.
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        • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
          A woman is first a woman then what ever she wants to be. To be a Commander in Chief tells you her view of man and herself.
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          • Posted by $ 8 years ago
            Interesting...I think you just hit the issue right on the head...might be a little vague for some.

            You might have to batten down your hatches but I think your right and that is what she was getting at.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 8 years ago
            I agree a person is their sex first (we really don't get to choose XX or XY), and then whatever. But what does being a Commander in Chief tell me about her view of man and herself? That is what is not getting through to me.
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            • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
              A Commander in Chief has to look down on all around which means there is no looking up. A woman should want to look up. Not in a subservient way but in a an admiring way. That isn't possible for a woman if she is is in
              command. If you were a woman how would you feel if you had such a view of man that you could not admire a masculine person? Would you feel men were not adequate or would you feel that you would need to be the Amazon?
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              • Posted by Esceptico 8 years ago
                I never thought of a CEO having to look down. I'll have to think about that, but my gut reaction is that is not a good way to manage an organization. We are talking about management as president. Admiring a a man (from a female perspective) to me is no different than admiring a woman vis-a-vis the job to be done. What I see from your comment, and I admit I may well be wrong, reveals you are saying a woman should respect, obey and submit to her male mate --- without regard to the context.
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                • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
                  No I'm not saying that at all. A Commander in Chief is more than a CEO in regard to being a leader of the free world. Suppose you were a woman and as a woman you would look at man qua man how? Would your view of man change if you were always in charge and the ultimate decision maker? Would you not want to see a vision of man as the best he could be? Could you hold that vison if you knew you had to be the one in charge? What would that do to your view of man and your view of a woman? The virtue of strength would you not want to see or provide it?
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                  • Posted by Esceptico 8 years ago
                    As I understand it, when Rand says “man qua man” she means “human.” You ask “Suppose you were a woman and as a woman you would look at man qua man how?” I translate as “Suppose you were a woman and as a woman how would you look at the human race?” In which case, I can’t answer since I am a male. But my reaction is: for purposes of president, the sexes are the same.

                    Then, changing the definition of “man,” you ask: “Would your view of man change if you were always in charge and the ultimate decision maker?” So, I substituted “human” for man, and then the question does not make sense to me. Then I use the definition of “man” as “male” and, sorry, it still does not make sense to me. Sorry to be so thick headed, and I am not playing games, I truly do not understand what you are trying to convey to me.

                    Your remaining questions: (1) Would you not want to see a vision of man as the best he could be? (2) Could you hold that vison if you knew you had to be the one in charge? (3) What would that do to your view of man and your view of a woman? and (4) The virtue of strength would you not want to see or provide it?

                    Again, sorry to be so thick headed, and I am not playing games, I truly do not understand what you are trying to convey to me. These questions seem to use the word “man” in more than one definition.

                    I am in Chile, and it is bedtime. If you respond, I will have to answer tomorrow.

                    Good night.
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                    • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
                      Here is her answer inher own words.
                      For a woman qua woman, the essence of femininity is hero-worship—the desire to look up to man. “To look up” does not mean dependence, obedience or anything implying inferiority. It means an intense kind of admiration; and admiration is an emotion that can be experienced only by a person of strong character and independent value-judgments. A “clinging vine” type of woman is not an admirer, but an exploiter of men. Hero-worship is a demanding virtue: a woman has to be worthy of it and of the hero she worships. Intellectually and morally, i.e., as a human being, she has to be his equal; then the object of her worship is specifically his masculinity, not any human virtue she might lack.

                      This does not mean that a feminine woman feels or projects hero-worship for any and every individual man; as human beings, many of them may, in fact, be her inferiors. Her worship is an abstract emotion for the metaphysical concept of masculinity as such—which she experiences fully and concretely only for the man she loves, but which colors her attitude toward all men. This does not mean that there is a romantic or sexual intention in her attitude toward all men; quite the contrary: the higher her view of masculinity, the more severely demanding her standards. It means that she never loses the awareness of her own sexual identity and theirs. It means that a properly feminine woman does not treat men as if she were their pal, sister, mother—or leader.
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                      • Posted by $ sjatkins 8 years ago
                        She is incorrect in here assumptions. And of all people she should know better than to consider the holder of the job of US president and being some uber-hero above and over all others.
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                        • Posted by Tuner38 8 years ago
                          Her identity as a woman really shouldn't be in question. That is her basic "assumption". I don't see where she expected an uber hero as a president but she delineated quite clearly why a woman would not want to be president.
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