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Are Objectivists happy?

Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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http://experts.umich.edu/pubDetail.as...

R. David Hayward has developed a survey that attempts to define happiness and correlate it with many factors (nationality, religious affiliation or lack thereof, income, wealth, etc.). The goal is to predict future health and well-being.

From Hayward's abstract:

"Religious non-affiliates did not differ overall from affiliates in terms of physical health outcomes (although atheists and agnostics did have better health on some individual measures including BMI, number of chronic conditions, and physical limitations), but had worse positive psychological functioning characteristics, social support relationships, and health behaviors. On dimensions related to psychological well-being, atheists and agnostics tended to have worse outcomes than either those with religious affiliation or those with no religious preference."

My purpose in posting this is not to say anything derogatory about atheists or Objectivists, but it is part of my personal self-assessment of whether I would be happier if I did decide to become an Objectivist. At this point, I am not an Objectivist. One question that is an entirely logical counterargument to the possibility that Objectivists might not be happier than the general population would be, "Are people who are happier than the general population delusional about their reality"? I am sure that many Gulchers would presume that most Christians are happily delusional in their mysticism, for instance.


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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But unfortunately that is not consistent with the physics of the universe as currently known. The universe does appear to have a beginning and is currently predicted to have an end, albeit far after our existence (at least in current form).
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 10 months ago
    The question should be "Are students of Objectivism happy?" because Rand stated that she was the Objectivist and all the rest of us (who are so inclined) are students of Objectivism. Knowing that I am and always will be a student is somehow satisfying to me as no one expects a student to get it right all the time. I do wonder just what a passing grade would be? :-)
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  • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Speaking of happy, I took the "happy test" @ the posted website.............my happiness way above "All Survey Takers Average" except in two areas.........government and economy...(who'da thunk)! One question asked for my one word that made me happy: RATIONAL!!!
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Perhaps I am bit closer to the subject of suicide than most here, someone close to me contemplated it recently. Fortunately, I told that person how much he/she had to live for.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I had never read or heard Rand claiming that "Evil is impotent." Wow, I have no idea how she could say that having grown up in the Soviet Union.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "The origin of the universe,...."
    My conclusion: No origin is required, it simply is; existence exists, it always has been and ever shall be.............ponder it, examine it, investigate it (as our rational faculty acquires the means to do so), explore it, deal with it.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That would include communists who call religion an "opiate of the people."
    Since Ayn Rand slipped out of the grip of such a regime, I find her own atheism to be kinda ironic.
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  • Posted by IndianaGary 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'd go farther; by what standard is the measure of "happiness" being graded? I'm a generally happy, optimistic, person but have moments of anger and frustration over what is happening in the world. I'd say any measure of happiness would have to be contextual, not some one-size-fits-all generic grade.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks. I've already picked up on your last statement as holding water.
    Still, I weather splashes now and then.
    I'm retired from being a corrections officer at a maximum security prison for 21 years.
    I can take some rough weather. In fact, I'm kinda used to it.
    I just got irritated over a Christian woman with a different background than I for having to take heat just for stating what church activities she and her husband had planned for Holy Week.
    The post she responded to was about Easter.
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  • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Existence exists........................matter is and ever shall be................matter is neither created or destroyed..........................axiomatic.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Allosaurus, this very question was addressed in some detail before. My conclusion was that I can't consider myself a strict Objectivist unless I am an atheist, which I am not; nevertheless I feel very welcome here, and I feel that my comments and contributions are appreciated by many. I know you are appreciated and respected here.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Atheists I wouldn't presume to comment but agnostics are those who are still involved in the search for a religion or just religion without a specific church or sect and still believe in a supreme being of some sort. The rest of the mysticism, fear of the dark etc. still applies.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 10 months ago
    Objectivists have the potential for the greatest happiness. But their beliefs do not guarantee that.
    One has to hold Obj. beliefs sincerely and for the right reasons; e.g. a rational atheist must integrate his position from metaphysical and epistemological facts and premises.

    I agree with Mamaemma: choose rational principles first, then achieve happiness. If you hold irrational priniciples, you can't achieve true happiness.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again ,by definition, a belief is neither truth nor fact. I try to never use the word "believe," try to use the word "think" in all my conversations.

    Beliefs can be chosen evidenced by those who convert from one religion to another. My issue is, if I am going to "believe," which beliefs improve my quality of life, adds to my ability to function in the world, allows me to think when needed, gives me the most "margin" to function. (Thoreau said, "I love a wide margin to my life.")

    Margin (Howard McCluskey) is the difference between the burdens I bear and my power to carry those burdens. There is so much irrational crap in religion, I simply increase my margin by not considering it.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My estimate 25,000 subjectivists OD on heroin last year and 0 Objectivists. We are a happy bunch. We pursue values ignore the rest. Its actually what the Gulch is supposed to be.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Objectivists are happy because they are focused on value creation for their satisfaction. Wiggy and his sleeping bags. Me and my science and philosophy. As rand said "Evil is impotent" because Objectivists see the good and act justly while others see the bad and get confused and don't know how to act. It does not eliminate pain of loss or frustration but it puts it in its place which is secondary to values.
    How many heroin overdoses were by Objectivists last year? Based on the Northeast I would say 25,000 subjectivists OD last year.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have. I am unintimidated by it.
    Call me a mystic if you wish. I have looked up "mysticism" and have read it defined that the word covers all religions.
    Recently I was not at all impressed when a so-called Objectivenist dissed a lady Christian here by calling her a zombie.
    She left the Gulch over that, though she came back to say "Happy Easter" to me last night. I asked her to stick around but don't know if she is going to.
    I have been influenced by Ayn Rand and this board since I had Netflix mail me AS1 and the others I never heard of her before then. Thought I was renting science fiction.
    Way before that, I became a "born again Christian" during my 20s. I turned 69 last week and I ain't ever going to disbelieve in God.
    So I'm wondering-- is this board supposed to be an atheists only club with no one else to be tolerated?
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    See why we Objectivists are happy below. FOr us what we see fits with what we think. That is relaxing, efficient, and releases oxytosin so we naturally feel good. The brain hates contradictions. Its wastes energy, delays decision, wastes time. So get rid of contradictions. Learn to think about what is not what is not. Cleans out the brain in a hurry and makes love and warm puppies and achievement of values the focus of life.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 10 months ago
    I suspect a lot of people will function better with well-defined rules than completely independently. Just look how many deny the ability to develop moral right and wrong objectively. The next set would be those that cannot construct the logical argument for such.

    I agree with khalling. Atheists and agnostics are not a monolithic group. In addition, they are operating without the comfort of faith, without railings so to speak. Therefore, it is not surprising that on average we are a little less happy, having to do a little more work to find our way with a lot less camaraderie, X-mas, easter, etc. Druids are probably happier.too. It doesn't help much that calling oneself an atheist brings raised eyebrows and some shunning from some in the mainstream. Not all of us have the think skin not to care, or to banter on the subject. No doubt this will change as well, as more and more people continue to find religion not believable and unnecessary. It would do us all good to document the objective reasons for proper behavior to provide a logical basis for morality that people can rally around.

    In my case, I made up for the philosophical strain with pets. I am much happier with dogs than dogma.
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