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Are Objectivists happy?

Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
228 comments | Share | Flag

http://experts.umich.edu/pubDetail.as...

R. David Hayward has developed a survey that attempts to define happiness and correlate it with many factors (nationality, religious affiliation or lack thereof, income, wealth, etc.). The goal is to predict future health and well-being.

From Hayward's abstract:

"Religious non-affiliates did not differ overall from affiliates in terms of physical health outcomes (although atheists and agnostics did have better health on some individual measures including BMI, number of chronic conditions, and physical limitations), but had worse positive psychological functioning characteristics, social support relationships, and health behaviors. On dimensions related to psychological well-being, atheists and agnostics tended to have worse outcomes than either those with religious affiliation or those with no religious preference."

My purpose in posting this is not to say anything derogatory about atheists or Objectivists, but it is part of my personal self-assessment of whether I would be happier if I did decide to become an Objectivist. At this point, I am not an Objectivist. One question that is an entirely logical counterargument to the possibility that Objectivists might not be happier than the general population would be, "Are people who are happier than the general population delusional about their reality"? I am sure that many Gulchers would presume that most Christians are happily delusional in their mysticism, for instance.


All Comments

  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That was one heavily edited post.
    Stuff I wrote you probably would not consider appropriate.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't have an archive of that thread to look in for old posts. We don't know if what she wrote and the responses to it were appropriate or not.
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  • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello A,
    You just asserted that existence is eternal. And modern physics knows that mass/energy is indestructible and is not created. Do you agree?
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  • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello J,
    I am delighted. In a response to anther of your comments, I tried, a minute ago, to propose also the polite disagreement. At least I think I did. Did you see it and agree? All the best.
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  • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello J,
    "Yet there is much in this universe that is beyond our capacity to design, let alone create."
    It seems to me pretty obvious that this sentence implies that everything needs to be designed or created. Which, to my mind, directly says nothing can be eternal. It also almost defines an intelligent designer or creator. That is what, more or less clearly, all religions say. I do not need to, but want to point out that such ideas are incompatible with the objectivist philosophy. Why not agree on that and part friends as before?
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  • Posted by Steven-Wells 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oops! My aging eyes didn't catch my mistype of E=mc². That should have been ASCII 0178, not 0179.

    I started writing a bunch of other stuff to argue against the primitive (Newtonian) world view of physics, but it came out looking like an argument by intimidation via relativistic quantum mechanics. So I deleted it. Instead look at the next sunrise. Is what came up the sun or a mass to energy conversion system. We're normally pretty casual about the mass-energy transformations of everyday phenomena in macro and micro scales.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, if you concede that God is a substitute for everything that humans do not understand. Of course, that makes God a figment of human imagination.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Admittedly, I am a deist. I do not accept unearned guilt. I am not angry or hurt in any way. Based on what you say, we will politely disagree, as I am sure I will politely disagree with atheists in this forum who are polite.
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  • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello J,
    There is a problem, in my opinion, in how you use your terms. For instance, you seem to equate universe and existence. If you are allowing the possibility of multiple universes, then you must redefine the term universe. To my understanding, existence means EVERYTHING that exists. In your view of multiple universes, I see just more than one "system", each of which has some as yet unknown delimiting physical characteristic, analogous to a multiplicity of planetary systems within a galaxy.
    I am not completely sure, because I did not take enough time to think about it. But my strong impression is that these kinds of "definitional shifts" in your expressions are consequences of your, seems to me, firm belief in the concepts of supernatural and extra-existential as valid concepts reflecting a reality. Needless to say, I disagree with you on this.
    Please, I have no personal animosity here. From what little I know about your work, I think that I admire you for that.
    Also, I sense an emotional reaction in you toward disagreeing statement. It reminds me of what I learned very long time ego. You cannot deny religion to religious people without causing anger. An illustration, tragically, might be in how the global warming deniers are treated in our culture and country these days. Or, try to disagree with Stalin about communism. Dogmas.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What's beyond human comprehension?
    God.
    This is when Mr. Mystic ducks missiles made of assorted vegetables and rotten fruit,.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This position is nonsense. It based on the fallacy
    that there is some sort of alternative to existence.
    If nothing could come from nothing, then where did
    God come from? Did He come from nothing? Andwhatever He came from, where did that come from? And so on back. You either accept
    existence, or you don't.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I don’t believe it,” rather than “I don’t know,” is a legitimate answer to any arbitrary claim for which no real evidence is given. For example, which response is more appropriate for the claim that “The human race was created by pink giraffes on the dwarf planet Pluto”?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I believe that to be true objectively. Good example. I will vote Donkey because my entire family has voted Donkey since the end of the Civil war...

    I's not the party of Roosevelt, T. anymore but it is the party of anti civil rights and

    that can't be right my family is staunchly pro liberal objectives.

    I just stated one.

    Huh?

    Nor is it the party of FDR and especially not the party of JFK

    You forgot LBJ

    On purpose I'm not much of fascist supporter.

    What about Carter?

    he wasn't much of anything.

    Clinton....uhhhhhhhh hmmmm maybe you have a point.

    Not any better in the dumbo party

    Things change.

    I was very happy to contribute....
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are basing your conclusions on the laws of the Universe as humans are capable of observing. The Universe is beyond human comprehension or ability to fully observe; therefore, your conclusions do not have a valid basis.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well said. The true search for knowledge does not begin under the auspices of preconceived notions. We must be willing to posit anything, eliminate the unsound, and accept whatever remains as the truth - however inconvenient. (Thanks to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle via Sherlock Holmes.)
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I went and took a look and it appears everything Suzanne and responses to her statement about what she and her hubby would do at church during Holy Week has been edited out in the "What Is Easter?" post.
    I can't cite erased for sanitized history.
    Yesterday I replied to a PM that asked why did Suzanne leave the Gulch.
    I stated that being called a zombie really stuck in her craw. In other words, she could not cope with that..
    I'm suddenly reminded of what I used to hear about Alabama Department of Corrections incident reports: "If it is not written it did not happen."
    I guess in the Gulch that also goes for things edited, erased and deleted,
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    of course thinking comes first always. research observation testing the ultimate question for anyone Is it Useful now? Then followup testing on continuous basis. Things change.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Secular progressives are their own category, distinct from religious progressives or from secular Objectivists, or any other combination of two words that are not secular progressives. Secular progressives generally consider themselves as fit to rule, and that is precisely their goal, to rule.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes the fallacious argument from design creationism is an infinite regress, including the loopy space alien version. Understanding why is not required to reject the fallacy, but it does show that it is self-refuting. They claim that "complexity" requires consciousness design to create existence, then concoct an intelligent source of design far more complex than what they started with, putting them into an even deeper hole on their own premise. There is no end to it. But they don't see it because complexity wasn't the root of it to begin with, they invert the relation between existence and consciousness in a religious mindset confusing identity and confusing causation as the premise.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's not a matter of "acceptance". Ayn Rand's philosophy is incompatible with religion.
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