I would certainly argue for a third reason. Even in the absence of a public welfare system, it is entirely possible that many new immigrants are not going to be capable of creating jobs for themselves or others. In that case, you get a wage deflation if you let too many people in.

Granted, we have to compete globally now for work and wages. That is why a minimum wage won't ever work.

yes, it has. As stated elsewhere their are entire communities in Phoenix where English is hardly spoken and all signage is in Spanish only. There is a state park where Americans are told not to go for fear of drug runners from Mexico and encountering human smugglers. Its all about saturation and Reconquista.

so out of all of that that's the only thing you can say? I was sharing things that happened to me directly. Your statement is absurd. The illegal commit crimes that should never have occurred because THEY SHOULDN"T BE HERE. sheesh.

As someone who stood on both sides of the Berlin Wall, I can tell you that often such walls are designed precisely to keep people in. Ask anyone who tried to leave a Communist country. You are right about that being a prison. That is exactly what it is.

Interesting perspective. Shall I blame you for my sisters handicap then?

My sister. My mother, Several friends. This isn't limited to me or my family. I'd wager that others in this group who hail from Az have similar stories. There are hundreds of stories similar to mine happening every day. This isn't about a driver either except that had she not been here it never would have happened.

Not exactly. A community forms a government to set rules in place that all can abide by and live in relative comfort and without fear. A government then enforces those laws without favor because they are supposed to represent all of that society. Its the differing ideas and culture that creates the rift between people. The border merely draws a line of separation between those two ideologically differing people. Each side has its law, customs, economy and has a right to determine who comes and goes and participates in their environment. What we are seeing now is a saturation of another country's people in the US. Those people will use our system to change laws to their favor if given a chance. Our society is increasingly becoming overshadowed along the border. How long will it be before the now legalized illegals have direct representation in government and we are now the strangers in this land?

Oddly, Mexico's southern borders is armed heavily. Their northern border is also armed. Yet, we cannot do the same?

I personally think it's a problem that our laws and regulations do not need to be based on any moral values, but can merely be "based on whatever the legal authority defines them to be," i.e., a politician or bureaucrat's whim. Nazi Germany had laws, but I don't think anyone would argue that those who broke the laws or spoke against them were in the wrong because it was "illegal." Bad and immoral laws deserve to be disobeyed, in my opinion.

The government.

Well said. I agree with your statement on the issue of immigration: "People should have the freedom to live wherever they want. Taking even a single step away from that ideal is a step towards tyranny."

The current power elites thrive on a divide-and-conquer mentality, and want us to hate and fear anyone who is "alien" or "other." They want us to define ourselves as members of a certain nation, rather than as individuals. I can't forget that my ancestors came here from other nations over the past few centuries. What right do any of us -- citizens or politicians -- now have to slam the door in the faces of others who want to live here?

I agree with hattrup below, who said laws aren't based on morality. Restricting immigration is not moral, and stealing from some to give to others as welfare is not moral, either.

As dictated by?

To protect individual rights within its jurisdiction.

and what the core reason for government?

I would rather have a Constitutional Republic with a weak central government designed only to handle certain aspects coming to all member of the republic. That Republic was what we were conceive do be, a single nation of individual states.

I know quite a few police. In fact several helped me with aspects of my book Shadows Live Under Seashells. The large majority are good folks trying to do a rough job. The fact that the fed gov and INS do everything within their power to prevent them from doing their duty is much more common an issue than the "sympathetic" policemen who let that particular illegal alien go.