Work is Opportunity, not only because it keeps the head straight and the body moving, but because it sets standards that we must never accept fully, rather question and transgrend. Conformity is just as much a sin as idleness.

Agreed!

Agreed!

Yes I understand u now. :)

Ok got it now :)

Why thank you, Big John. Over-kind I'm sure, but what a nice way to start the day!

firefox search: "J.Paul Getty once said something I have never forgotten.'Most people are too busy working to get rich'." here's the url: http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthre...

my best male friend is fond of saying that talent, preparation and luck are all required to succeed. we watch nascar engineering tests (races) and see how it's true ... so, Edison and Tesla provided the talent, Westinghouse added to the preparation, and they (and we) together got lucky!

pardon me, Zero, but anyone who can think and write as well as you do is not "social ballast" in my view! and as both an inventor and a businessman, I say Yes.

Your right though you are the judge too, jurors are judges too. you judge wether that's too much or to little to pay for something you want or need. If the market thinks gold is worth 1,000 dollars you be hard pressed to buy it for 500. The market decides, (judges) what it's worth by knowing what someone else will or may offer, or by knowing what the intrinsic, or personal, or scrap value is.

The market is the judge in the sense that it GROWS by being well liked, well used, valued, appreciated, if it's not people generally won't use it or appreciate it, or buy it. It's allowed to set its own price.
I think the market is the judge we are the jurors, the judge listens to the jury. I can't honestly try and sell you something you don't want or need, you are the judge of that. The market decides and is the judge of its own value based on what the "jurors" are willing to offer. Like what the market will bear, or how much is that worth I don't know let the market decide, or let the market be the judge. That's how I understand it I hope it explain my point.

I had no great point to make. I was simply defending a personal hero. (No one brings up Tesla in this context without meaning to attack Edison.)

I admire Tesla's genius but Edison changed the world. With his business acumen even MORE than his inestimable technological contributions. Again, he not only invented movies - he made sure I saw them.

What can I say, ILove the guy!

Questioning who is more important, the inventor or the businessman is like asking who is more valuable in baseball, Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. One of the reasons that humanity is so successful is its ability to cooperate in order to out-power its enemies. Unfortunately, this is often interpreted as being the only way man can succeed, is by doing everything for the benefit of the group -- the collective, They forget it is the individual that creates the group, which is composed of greater and lesser people.

What is the market and how can it judge? How do I decide what to do in the market without judging?

I would argue that Sam must have invented some idea that makes his business so different and great. But Lets assume he didn't, name one thing Mr. Walton sells (or a process that he impliments) that wasn't invented. Neither (businessman nor inventor) need or ought to be at odds with one another -- nor does one or the other need to be absent in the same person. Which side of one man should get the "credit" should a businessman use his own invention to make money? I get that the skills of a businessman are crucial, but so are the products of inventors (not all obviously).

I guess I am missing your point. Is it to praise the businessman higher on the moral standard of the common good?

I always judge individuals. Of course. I'm an Obj. And I cleared stated that AR considered the entire idea of judging by social value as a "borrowed concept" that she did not espouse. She simply pursued the train of thought to it's logical conclusion - one seldom arrived at by others.

Business is not based on invention. I don't think Sam Walton ever invented anything (I could be wrong - I often am.) But he did more to help the poor than any man alive. Thanks to his relentless pursuit of efficiency I can pay the same for a pair of shoes in 2014 that I paid in 1974. That's a hell of a thing to say.

I was mainly responding to the usual comparison of Tesla vs Edison. The brutalized genius vs the robber-baron of electricity.

I give Tesla his full due. How can you not? He was one of the greatest minds in history.

But I also remember 10,000 things that don't make a light bulb filament.

---
You know Dean Kamen? He invented the Segway. It was supposed to change the world. He also invented a wheelchair rolls over sand and gravel, climbs stairs and even raises the occupant up to full "standing" height to reach items on the top shelf - or look another person eye-to-eye. That was supposed to change the world, too.

I'm not bad mouthing Kamen. I'm neither an inventor nor a businessman. I am social ballast. But I wish - I truly wish - Kamen was more of an Edison than a Tesla.

An inventor without a businessman is a sad damn thing.

Don't judge, create. The market is the judge. Many good businesses never invented anything, but had passion for creating, and learning and discovering what they liked, and then it turned into making money. Skilled crafts, artists, duck calls....actually I think the duck should get a little credit for the duck call...

Invention creates a business, or opportunity, or a market. What each business does with it is their responsibility or lack of responsibility. The market should decide, yet unfortunately alls not fair in life, and in business, but it has a way of coming around for those on the right side of things.

Many inventions are a result of passion, or observation, some require hard work, some dumb luck. The guy who invented Velcro did so by observing the burrs you get walking in the woods. The guy who invented saccharine stumbled upon it while working with coal or oil tar substrate. The microwave by Raytheon a chocolate bar is an engineers pocket walking between the waves. It took 10,000 years before man discovered if he tied a stick to a rock it get would getmore leverage, thus the hammer. One of my favorite is Moore's Law, that electronic memory will double every 18 month... take a standard, and as it did double the tools that came available made that still true today by the people working together for a common goal. Nothing has gotten faster, better, and cheaper than electronics. we've come along way and the is nearly endless opportunity.
Sorry but I love this kinda of stuff, I thinks it's passion for a propose, and a lot of hard work with good people yields good luck and results.

A businessman without the product of an inventor produces nothing. I'm not sure what the point is in figuring out who achieves the greatest good -- whatever that means. Is that the standard I should use to judge who is valuable to me and who is not?

I'm sure you're familiar with the ability pyramid analogy Rand used to describe the greatest contributors of value to the rest of mankind; and who are the greatest benefactors. Businessmen aren't the only men on the pyramid, nor are they the only ones at the top -- I'm sure some belong at the bottom or worse (not on it at all).

I think we should judge each individual, not an entire class of people, if we wish to make such a comparison as where one belongs on the contributory pyramid. I am hard pressed in to figuring out why placing people on the pyramid is a desirable end in itself. What do we gain by such comparison?

Microsoft has seized the day and found a way to make money, screw over the stupid IRS. Apparently, over half their computers are still XP. As they whine about budget cuts and being unable to upgrade before the XP deadline, Microsoft steps in and will make double digit millions keeping them patched. It's our money, but hey, I have Mircosoft stock, so go business!

Edison seems to have pulled a Goldwater and let something like Alzheimer's in too soon!

Hi "M",
See my reply below if you're interested.
(Big smile and a proffered hand.)