I do not know that the desire to explore is a human drive, DrZ. People try to avoid 'anthropomorphism', but I observe that many of the things we label as human are exhibited by other species. For example, the horse evolved in what is now North America. About 2.5M years ago, a predecessor of all extant equids migrated across the Bering land bridge into Asia - giving rise to all of the donkeys, zebras, and horses there. Then the whole family went extinct in North America. Had Equus not migrated, they would all be extinct.

Any species that is constrained to a small area is vulnerable to some cataclysm at that location. When we farm Mars, an asteroid smashing Earth will not render humans extinct; when we colonize other star systems, the sun going nova becomes an 'interesting detail' not bye-bye forever.

I think this instinct is Darwinian. I also think that it is stronger in Europe than in Africa and stronger in the US and Australia than in Europe. In each case, we are the descendants of explorers.

Jan

hear hear

I think the Enviro's and socialists have been the biggest drag on the optimism as well as the activities.
I appreciate the problems with gov't funding and strongly agree with the perversion of science and it's applications--even those that have been drawn into the funding and approved publishing sewer line find themselves trapped in the 'machine' producing what others want.
I often wonder where science and engineering would have taken us without gov't interference and what intellectual property has been taken from the private stream of development.

When I was in the hospital some time ago a resident doc asked if I wanted Percodan for my pain. I told him no, I'd stick to Tylanol. He looked at me at first as if I was nuts, then he smiled and said "got it." I don't want to lose my thinking ability, after all, like Woody Allen said, "My brain is my second favorite organ."

but doctor feelgood can delay the process! -- j
.

I wish that we could just decide to try capitalism! -- j
.

I understand, and I 'waffle' on it as well. But setting that aside, the men in that program, not just the astronauts, were in a significant way, the best of us. Or so it seemed at the time.
But we have finally begun the transition out of the gov't only, into private (or corporate) entry to some of the activity. It won't be long before we're mining the 'junk' of space and I can see us having a more permanent presence beyond our atmosphere within the next 50 to 100 yrs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXSGo...

Science only helps after the fact.
The latest thought is that with science women can get enhancements, and men can get cured from E.D. Then they get Alzheimer's, and the woman have perky breasts and the men have erections and they don't know why.

An astronaut.

Something to think about over the weekend:
The old man's realization: What Mother Nature giveth, Father Time taketh away.

Too bad it was gov't run.

Or, if the elk will bag us.

Why do you think that the drive for higher purpose is unique to only certain cultures? In some cases, it's a lack of wealth or technology that limits the reach of a people. Survival is a necessity, and when all of a people's energies are consumed in making sure they're fed, housed, and clothed, there's not much left for exploration.

In every part of the globe, there's evidence of striving for greater achievement at some point in history. Africa had Timbuktu;, Southeast Asia had Angkor Wat; even deep in the Amazon there's evidence of sophisticated agricultural societies; the Mississippian culture in North America had continent-wide trading. Natural events or human warfare caused an early end to these cultures' ambitions. We tend to think that somehow Western cultures are the only ones with a drive to achieve greater things, but I believe that we just happened to be the lucky ones.

part of our rational make-up is to gain knowledge. we never know for sure if this exploration will pay. on the other hand, when we go out for a hunt, we don't know if we will bag an elk

I was still young and naïve enough to believe that this was the start of man's first step into space exploration. What an astounding accomplishment, and with such primitive equipment. Desire overrides problems.

Dr, you are welcome. but how do explain that not every culture has this drive (excuse the collectivist generalization)

It is curious that I rarely see anyone question why humans feel the drive to explore new things, even without population pressures or material needs. I dispute the Darwinian explanation that it's driven by survival instincts, as there's no indication that climbing Mt Everest made the climber more capable than someone who remained below.

There's a hint of purpose in the explorer element of our makeup. Are we destined to continue to seek greater achievement toward some unseen goal? I think that unexplainable (some might even say unjustified) instinctive overreach was what created my Deist belief (after rejecting organized religion).

Thanks for the quote, kh. As you can see, I was inspired.

That optimism has died in the US.

This movie brings up the contradiction I had when I first read Atlas Shrugged, which was whether science should be government funded. It took less than four years (grad school physics) for me to understand that government funding of science was perverting science.

there is a part of my thinking that says, just because we want to-the govt should not do it. ahem mars. But it seemed so important to the US at that time. DB has waffled on this.

that is very cool, jim

sometimes I love you.

he was the main astronaut on Apollo 13. Watch the movie!