Ohio family held at gunpoint by police at Dayton Air Force Museum

Posted by stargeezer 6 years, 6 months ago to Government
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If you look at license plates in a parking lot, you might be felony stopped? What were these military police and cops thinking???

Welcome to police state American style.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 6 years, 6 months ago
    I may be getting old and cynical but BO said in '08 that he wanted a civilian police force as powerful as our military for the same reasons. This is one more incident of the new Gestapo flaunting its authority and is meant to cower the populace.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
      I heard the exact same claim about President Bush, that even low level authorities were being militarized by initiatives and direction coming straight from the top. I really don't think it's true. The problem is very real, but the idea that one person is responsible is not true.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 6 months ago
    Am I noticing something? The cops I interface with don't seem like the cops of when I was a kid. A lot of these guys today seem pretty stupid, really damaged. An hour and a half before they figured out this granny and mom were felons? Really? Reminds me of the video of the cops gunning down that guy in New Mexico recently. Didn't one of them yell out a "buyahh!" afterward? LOL
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 6 months ago
    So whatever happened to actually walking up to the vehicle and taking a look inside? Maybe asking them what they were doing?

    Common sense needs to get a new name, because it is all too UNcommon anymore...
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      The computer and their "manual for interfacing with the public" lists felony stops first. They had to wait until the computer told them to let granny go. Utilizing their M1 brain to figure out that there was no crime was beyond their ability and training.
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      • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
        Actually Fred, I think I messed up. In any event, I agree with your post. They need better training and that does not mean combat training. Which is what they get now.

        The summer camp I participate in deals with numerous LEOs from FBI down to beat cops. We spend a lot of time talking about the training they get and it is all combat stuff, right off the streets of Bagdad. Homeland security does most of the training these days, supplies materials and even equipment.

        If we continue to train our police for war, that's how they are going to act on our streets. I don't think that's the right way. There are things allowed in war by the military that are totally against our legal system. A combatant in a land far away who can tell me where a minefield is before my men walk into it does not have a 5th amendment right - and I don't want him to. I want to know what he knows before my men are killed.
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  • Posted by illucio 6 years, 6 months ago
    Who let the dogs out? That´s the question, in an Orson Wells kinda mood. And to think this couldn´t happen, when we´ve been harrassed at airports ever since 9/11. "The War On Terror" was a perfect excuse to introduce big brother policies and run over civil rights. Nothing new really, since then "asalamaleikum" was code for terrorists and "ala u akbar" meant "he´s got a bomb", before "sayonara" meant "you´re gonna die", "bonjour" "invasion" and well, I don´t know any cherokee but you get the picture.

    Remember that senator that persecuted people for plausible communism as a social desease? Shhh, don´t mention his name should anyone become devote to his tactics again. Fear is the perfect excuse for repression, and this has always been the case everywhere. Thank God in Him We Trust...
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  • Posted by starguy 6 years, 6 months ago
    Well known fact: police officers aren't hired for their IQ's.
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    • Posted by airfredd22 6 years, 6 months ago
      Re: starguy,
      I have to differ with you as to the IQ of police officers. The problem isn't them so much as the lack of proper training and supervision. due to the extreme and violent criminal behavior of so many in our population, the police have wrongly chosen to react aggressively in all contacts instead of making commonsense decisions. training should include commonsense classes as well as some history in how policemen and women used to deal with people. Yes, they are exposed to risk at all times, but that is simply part of the job.

      The solution is not to treat people roughly without cause. Elderly and children are seldom the cause of problems. this however can be risky during domestic situations were alcohol and other passions can result in dramatic outbursts of violence.

      To the police, yes, be careful out there, but also be reasonable in assesing risks. No one wants you hurt, but no one wants a 65 year old grandmother or a 5 year old child hurt either.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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    • Posted by airfredd22 6 years, 6 months ago
      Re: starguy,
      I have to differ with you as to the IQ of police officers. The problem isn't them so much as the lack of proper training and supervision. due to the extreme and violent criminal behavior of so many in our population, the police have wrongly chosen to react aggressively in all contacts instead of making commonsense decisions. training should include commonsense classes as well as some history in how policemen and women used to deal with people. Yes, they are exposed to risk at all times, but that is simply part of the job.

      The solution is not to treat people roughly without cause. Elderly and children are seldom the cause of problems. this however can be risky during domestic situations were alcohol and other passions can result in dramatic outbursts of violence.

      To the police, yes, be careful out there, but also be reasonable in assesing risks. No one wants you hurt, but no one wants a 65 year old grandmother or a 5 year old child hurt either.

      Fred Speckmann
      commonsenseforamericans@yahoo.com
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      • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
        Hi Fred, I agree with everything you said and please note that I said nothing about the IQ of law enforcement officers. My point was exclusively that they don't apply the mind before the glock. That leads to survival in a war zone - been there, survived and came home. But at home dealing with old folks and little kids, not a good idea.

        I'm not a cop basher and the things I complain about are NOT because I got a ticket this week, because I haven't had any in a long time. My last ticket was in 1982, I'm a member of the sheriff's Posey and have been on many ride-alongs. I also thrown a couple police appreciation whole hog cookouts that always include some shooting on my range with some guns few have ever seen. I'm far from a LEO basher but there are a number of recent events that are problematic for police everywhere.

        Wish you the best my friend.
        Larry
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        • Posted by airfredd22 6 years, 6 months ago
          To stargeezer,

          My apologies stargeezer, as you can see on my post that you received, I addressed it to starguy but clicked on your reply button. sorry,

          Fred
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          • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
            This went to the wrong place, sorry all.

            Actually Fred, I think I messed up. In any event, I agree with your post. They need better training and that does not mean combat training. Which is what they get now.

            The summer camp I participate in deals with numerous LEOs from FBI down to beat cops. We spend a lot of time talking about the training they get and it is all combat stuff, right off the streets of Bagdad. Homeland security does most of the training these days, supplies materials and even equipment.

            If we continue to train our police for war, that's how they are going to act on our streets. I don't think that's the right way. There are things allowed in war by the military that are totally against our legal system. A combatant in a land far away who can tell me where a minefield is before my men walk into it does not have a 5th amendment right - and I don't want him to. I want to know what he knows before my men are killed.
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  • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 6 months ago
    I_IR1776 is right on. I wonder how many remember what the flunkie in the white house said. these types of incidence are becoming more common. there will be a day in time that the police who function without thought to the actions will become the beneficiary of attacking the wrong person. as I have said before on the site we are no longer a government of the people, etc. I do hope this family will be able to get a large measure of restitution.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 6 years, 6 months ago
    Some police have a tough job, but museum guards are not an example.
    Simply controlling the situation and getting license/registration would've defused the entire scenario.
    This behavior is that of a bully and coward. Very undesirable, sometimes found among police.
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  • Posted by mckenziecalhoun 6 years, 6 months ago
    Then my daughter and I have it coming.
    We play the license plate game (we have four left to find, and have already found Hawaii and Alaska).

    We'll report if/when it happens.

    Hearsay report - is it enough to arrest someone? Is looking at cars a crime now? Interesting how that line is getting blurry.
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    • Posted by gtebbe 6 years, 6 months ago
      Is there some Ohio law the makes it illegal to look at cars and license plates? And this nonsense about "casing cars?" A grandmother, her daughter-in-law and grandchildren treated like jihadi terrorists? There is more going on with those cops than is being reported. Listen to what the victims are telling us
      .
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
    idiocracy has firmly taken hold.
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    • Posted by RevJay4 6 years, 6 months ago
      Robbie...you're too lenient. It's stupidity, and can't be fixed. Except in rare cases. Ask Ron "can't fix stupid" White.
      By the actions of the DOJ and the administration, the LEO community has been given the green light to go bananas and ignore whatever common sense they might have.
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    • Posted by MattFranke 6 years, 6 months ago
      Its funny, the hospital in Idiocracy is probably a fairly accurate representation of the medical system after a couple hundred years of Obomb-ya-care. No doctors left, and it doesn't seem to be very affordable.

      Here, this one goes in your mouth, this one in your ear, and this one in your butt. **Uncooperative beeping from diagnostic machine**
      Ooop, wait a minute, this one, rrrr, no this one, goes in your mouth, and this one..."

      "Don't worry scro, there's plenty of tards out there living kick-ass lives. My ex-wife was 'tarded; she's a pilot now..."
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 6 years, 6 months ago
    Were mom and junior wandering around inside a restricted area of the base, you bet your butt, the SP's (base cops) did what they were trained to do. But to detain them in this manner without asking questions... wandering around a parking lot... looking at license plates... well...

    The museum is supposed to be a PR device between the Civ and Mil sides, kinda like the Thunderbirds, etc., to show the military in a positive light... what it ended up being was good PR on how you should expect to be treated when stopped by our now-militarized federalized Homeland-security Oriented Law Enforcement in the future... a lesson those very young kids will remember for a long long time.

    Just a side note. I go on and off mil bases as part of my job. When you go on base, they get your license and registration. As such, the "It came back stolen" had to have been a CYA move to cover a major screwup, trying to whitewash why proper proedures weren't followed. a "License, Registration, and Proof of Insurance" stop by the cop when they left would have sorted that out immediately. The cops (assuming the SP's per the actions they made the civillians take) overreacted to a non-issue.
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    • Posted by RevJay4 6 years, 6 months ago
      I will certainly avoid visiting the Air Force museum in Dayton, and seriously think about going on any military base for any reason.
      If what you say is true, Susanne, wonder what the screw up was to provoke this LEO behavior?
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 6 years, 6 months ago
    Same thing happened to my brother 30 years ago in rural Vermont. He was stopped for car theft. Theft of his own car.

    My brother had reported it stolen six months earlier, and it was recovered. But the recovery never made it into the database. Routine check of the plate? "STOLEN."

    Had him up against the car for frisking. Frisker pats him down, comes upon something dangerous at my brother's knee. "WHAT'S THAT?" the cop asked. "My prosthesis," says my brother. "YOUR WHAT?" The other cop calmly says, "He means his wooden leg."

    These things happen. I approached a police scene one night with my pickup truck and trailer. Not wanting to cause trouble, and not wanting to have to turn around in tight quarters, I remained at a respectful distance. OOPS, WRONG ACTION. One cop was motioning with his flashlight, which he occasionally shined right into my face, for me to drive forwards. I didn't move my truck as he requested because I had no idea of what he wanted. He finally walked back to where I was. incensed that I had made him walk that far. He said I could be arrested for failure to obey a police officer. Apparently, according to a police chief I spoke to months later, the cops feel that anyone who hangs back from a checkpoint (oh, THAT'S what it was!) has something to hide and is about to turn (a truck and horse trailer?) and run.

    These things happen. Cops have a difficult job, and may have to make split-second decisions based on very little evidence.
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  • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
      I don't buy their excuse. What ever happened to cops talking to people? Today every contact starts with a computer report and no information from the people is listened to unless a computer clears them and even then, they are treated as if they are criminals who did something wrong - or they wouldn't have been called out in the first place.

      What happened to being innocent until proved guilty? What if the driver had a concealed carry gun? Would she have been shot on the way out of the van?

      We've got to put a end to police being trained to act like military.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
        3 of the 4 of these were military police.
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        • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
          Even MPs should be able to see a minivan with a 65yo woman, a 30 something woman and two kids in a museum parking lot. Also did they find out who made the report that these folks were casing the cars in the parking lot? Or were these guys just a bit bored and decided to spice up their day - while traumatizing a couple kids the mother and granny? This could have been cleared up by talking to the people before dragging them out of their van like criminals. But then again, the computer didn't tell them they could talk to them.......
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
            Whoever ran the plates had them come back as a stolen vehicle. Now, either they typed in the wrong number, or the database had wrong info. The story doesn't say. So, I don't have a problem with them stopping the vehicle, and even taking appropriate precautions thinking that it was a stolen vehicle. But that didn't entail making the women get out and on their knees, and traumatizing kids. They could have asked for license and registration and settled things more easily/quickly.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
              Not to mention that the cops should have stopped this by asking whoever called in the tip "what are they doing?" Any fool could see a elderly lady and a small kid looking at license plates. This business of people who don't have a clue, or are just bored calling 911 to report suspicious activity just because somebody is out walking needs to stop. The 911 operators could end about 90% of this, but they are trained to roll the cops instead of asking if there is a reason.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
                "See something, say something."
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                • Posted by $ 6 years, 6 months ago
                  Sure, but they should have a clue what you're talking about. Whoever made the report built it into a false narrative that made it sound like granny and the 8yo boy were terrorists who were about to bomb the place. Then the cops overact, and add that to a decision was made someplace up the chain of command to train the MPs that they must be suspect of every little box, bag, car or person, anticipating that they are probably bombs, or car bombs, terrorists plotting the overthrow of US gov, etc. if they are doing something that caused them to be called out. Treating these people like they did was all according to their training doctrine. The fact that there were not terrorists didn't matter.

                  Now, apply that to some other situation, lets say a drug interdiction raid. Again the people there might not pose any problem or threat - because the "informant" lied. It's just a home with a normal family inside. Dad, Mom and a couple teens. Dad hears a crash downstairs and a bunch of yelling, he grabs his pistol and tells his wife to get the kids to their closet, where he keeps a shotgun. He heads down the stairs and just as he comes into view the hipped up cops see a gun with a gun pointing in their direction and shoot 45 rounds into him. he's dead before his body reaches the bottom of the stairs. As the officers reach the master bedroom, they open the closet door and seeing Mom with the shotgun pointed at them, they shoot her 12 times, and the two teens are also seriously wounded by bullets that passed through their mother.

                  In a few more minutes, it's announced that any threat has been eliminated and they begin to search the home for the "crack lab" the informant told them was there.

                  Of course no lab is found. The officers who shot the family are comforted by their buddies that they "did what they had to do." They are placed on paid leave and visit the police shrink, who assures them that they did their duty as they had been trained and how sometimes in a war things happen that nobody is happy about, but the job must be done. In two weeks they are back on the job and the next week they are assisting in another raid.

                  This might sound like a TV drama, but I can assure you that this thing happens every night. These raids and shooting occur every night. The families make a local fuss and sue the dept. which may lose the case, but if there is anything improper in the home, then they get called "justified" and the suit is thrown out. All it takes is for the teenage son to have a little pot or dad to own a unregistered gun and that's it. Case dismissed.

                  I'm not a cop baser, quite the opposite. However, the way these cops are being trained is shoot first and ask questions afterwards.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
      So, their excuse is that the computer said that the vehicle was stolen. Did the MP's ever check the license and registration? How stupid are people anymore? Databases are never incorrect? What if the police officer typed in the license plate number incorrectly (my personal theory)? And the person isn't going to admit that they made a mistake. Better to inconvenience an innocent person than to lose face.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 6 years, 6 months ago
    Are civilian and military cops who walk on their knuckles in Ohio required to pass/flunk some sort of stupidity test before they are hired?
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 6 years, 6 months ago
    We live about 35 miles north of Dayton, and get our local news from Dayton 7 TV. We were shocked. Dayton is a town where shooting happen every night, drugs are an issue, and a lot of domestics. For law enforcement to spend 1 1/2 hours on this non-crime is ridiculous. They are touchy at the Air Force Museum, where we have been several times, however.
    I can remember as a kid, and even now sometimes, seeing where people are from by looking at license plates in parking lots. We get Country Concert in the Hills in our area, and people come from all over the US, and world. It is nice to see how many places are represented on those plates.
    However, we once went to Trinity Site, the back door to White Sands, via a state highway, and were met with a B24 flown at low altitude coming right down the highway toward us, obviously to scare us off. The military has its secrets, even though we pay for them.
    Wish they would concentrate more Sheriffs' time on drug shipments..
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