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"The basic and crucial political issue of our age is: capitalism versus socialism... " - Ayn Rand

Posted by GaltsGulch 9 years, 4 months ago to The Gulch: General
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"The basic and crucial political issue of our age is: capitalism versus socialism, or freedom versus statism. For decades, this issue has been silenced, suppressed, evaded, and hidden under the foggy, undefined rubber-terms of 'conservatism' and 'liberalism' which had lost their original meaning and could be stretched to mean all things to all men." - Ayn Rand

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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did you mean to say that "the unknown is by definition that which is not yet known?" There are things which I call 'unknowable' because the means to know them is not available to me, i.e. "which planet with life forms like us is closest to our own planet?" That is unknowable now because we do not have the means to find out, but if/when we find a way to travel the universe and check all the existing planets, we may have an answer.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did you mean to say that "the unknown is by definition that which is not yet known?" There are things which I call 'unknowable' because the means to know them is not available to me, i.e. "which planet with life forms like us is closest to our own planet?" That is unknowable now because we do not have the means to find out, but if/when we find a way to travel the universe and check all the existing planets, we may have an answer.
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    term2..you've been reading my mail and listening to my conversations with my wife..my feelings exactly but with the added caution to my friends, 4 years of Trump,, or *8 years of Clinton , which would you like>??
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Although its unpopular on this forum, I am voting for Trump. He seems to at least be somewhat honest and speaks his mind. He will be good in getting rid of political correctness and telling us when the emperor has no clothes and in foreign relations. I will be OK with him for 4 years I think. Anything but Hillary.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 4 months ago
    I'd call her a prophet but she probably would have slapped me for saying it. Once clearly defined, the inevitability of the conflict between socialism and capitalism is easy to recognize. The cyclical theory of history may have some validity inasmuch as civilization seems to grow from a form of collectivism, to dictatorship, to such great privation that there is a rebellion and some form of freedom prevails and manifests capitalism which once again deteriorates to collectivism, socialism, dictatorship, etc.
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    term2..sadly, stupidity, greed and laziness are pretty much universal and nearly unbeatable. One has to do what one can and move on with those of fairminded behavior and good will. You can't save them all..maybe not any. Don't forget to vote...sad as it seems, it is the only answer .
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    wiggys...the unknown by definition is not knowable. that's the beauty of it... Those who know everything, can have no surprises or questions and are probably bored...,nothing new will ever happen to them. Omnipotence is a lonely bitch...no equals.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I once listened to Bill Buckley interview an older man who was an Athiest. Buckley in his smug manner said when you die and meet st. peter and he asks why you did not believe; what would you say; "you never gave me any proof"; Buckley shut his mouth, and that was amazing.

    I await proof. Also, how can the unknown be known and by whom?
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Even Ayn Rand ran the AS story all the way to essentially the Venezuelan experience. Its like she knew it would take that to change people to think about things. What she thought also was that the picture she was painting would be enough to effect change- when in fact it appears that it will require the reality of it to make a difference. Too bad, really. It amazes me that the people of Venezuela still seem to accept socialism in spite of whats happened.
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    term2,, she could not say or do more than she already did by leaving us her thoughts... it's up to us to expand them where we are able..one can lead a horse to water ...... . many will never hear or want to hear...survival of the fittest will always win...but when is the question.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Socialism lasts only until the other guy's money runs out.

    I wonder how far Sanders would get if he openly said that his socialism requires taking all the money from people who earn it and giving it to the ones who dont earn it. I wonder if Romney was right in that 47% of the voters in america would be OK with that statement now.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 4 months ago
    When AR used the term "capitalism," she was referring to the pure form of free market commerce as laid out in Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. The vision of capitalism today has been distorted to mean cronyism, which incorporates all of the most unpleasant elements of trusts, monopolies, nepotism, theft of intellectual property, and fascist partnership with statists.

    The distorted crony capitalism present in our world has an uncomfortable kinship with socialism, in that a powerful elite seek to control the markets to their own exclusive benefit. The constipated flow of wealth is characteristic of the delusion that somehow the "invisible hand" can be made to obey the wishes of power seekers without catastrophic damage to the free market.

    Nothing will change for the better until the forces that are inherent to a real free market are unfettered. Whether the oligarchy that seeks to rule calls itself socialist or not, the big state must be brought to an end.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am allowed to build my own house, but only if it meets their ideas of what a house should look like. I can pay for it and live in it, but only if I obey the various laws and dont use or sell drugs and pay the taxes on it that they assess. Thats NOT ownership.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    what else would she say or do now that she hadnt already done. The unwashed will have to undergo the Venezuela experience before they will think enough to see what happened.
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Inever said God did.bring AR into the world,.I simply use that old human well wishing phrase. and unless you are better connected than the Pope and I am. don't be so sure of your omnipotence.. there may possibly be some things you have no way of being smugly certain about. God Bless.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 4 months ago
    Socialism as a financial system among other things is unable to support itself. As apolitical system it is unable to exist with the primary tool of fascism ' completed control by any means needed' including twisted definitions.

    It's government over people.

    Capitalism is a financial system not a social or political system. It is very successful when used properly and monitored by the population and the populations employees - government.

    One of it's basic premises is honesty and a way of putting it is must have a social conscience which does not mean socialism.

    An example is re-stating the old leftist slogan ' means of production' to include ALL workers. CEO to Janitor. Second to treat each as a necessary part of the system.

    You see some of that in the Scandanavian countries, NZ and Switzerland.

    Short version is Citizens Over Government.

    As Ayn Rand stated the others are terms of propagandists...

    Treating the Constitution as the center of political discourse instead of crowning the center of the left as the center and then actually using it instead of ignoring was the way to go...

    instead we get the Patriot Act. A Marxist document with a thin patina of red, white and blue.

    For Shame....
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It has been obvious for some time now that many of the contributors to the forum have read very little of AR beyond AS or the Fountainhead.
    roneida, god did not bring AR into this world, however, when AR was here she was not appreciated and as a matter she was hated by the people who run the country. If she were still here nothing would have changed. If you or others were to read the essays in the other books that she published one would find that she covered everything that has been unhealthy for the country years ago and that has not changed. Actually it has things have gotten worse. And based upon those wanting to lead (I say that in jest, since none is capable) the speed at which thing will get worse(er) will increase. welcome to the new america!
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  • Posted by roneida 9 years, 4 months ago
    Some things never change. Thank God for Ayn Rand. The USA needs her now more than ever.
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