And the Survey SAYS...
A few weeks ago we asked you, the Atlas Shrugged community, to fill out an anonymous online survey. Thousands of you responded and, while we will NEVER divulge any personally identifiable information about any of our members, following are some very interesting meta results.
Gulch, here's who we are...
- - -
Sex
29% Female
71% Male
- - -
Age
6% Under 30
26% 30-49
43% 50-65
23% Over 65
- - -
Marital Status
15% Single
4% Cohabitating
66% Married
10% Divorced
2% Widowed
- - -
Political Affiliation
2% Democrat
18% Independent
23% Libertarian
35% Republican
16% Tea Party
- - -
Voted in the 2012 Presidential Election
93% Voted
3% Did not vote
3% Not registered to Vote
- - -
Gulch, here's who we are...
- - -
Sex
29% Female
71% Male
- - -
Age
6% Under 30
26% 30-49
43% 50-65
23% Over 65
- - -
Marital Status
15% Single
4% Cohabitating
66% Married
10% Divorced
2% Widowed
- - -
Political Affiliation
2% Democrat
18% Independent
23% Libertarian
35% Republican
16% Tea Party
- - -
Voted in the 2012 Presidential Election
93% Voted
3% Did not vote
3% Not registered to Vote
- - -
Previous comments... You are currently on page 5.
I spoke with one family in Spanish Fork whose family had records showing a group of leaders approaching Brigham Young about attacking Johnston's army in the plains.
Apparently, there were sufficient men willing to fight -- and enough Indian tribes who would probably join in the fight against the US army, that a formidable army could be mustered.
It was completely feasible for Deseret to meet Johnston's army, and before anyone could do anything about it, totally destroy the largest army the US had. Then march on Washington -- using captured supplies being sent to support Johnston's army.
Brigham Young declined to attack. He (and other LDS Church leaders) felt the Constitution was a divine document, and should be preserved. If Deseret attacked, the chances of victory were great, but then the country God established could be destroyed. It was not worth the risk.
I looked for "proof" of that story in the "official records," and never found it. Apparently a sizable number of leaders, including a variety of Indians, met and discussed it. But there is NO mention of it -- outside of a few diaries.
Good.
Give me a book title that tells both sides, or even the LDS side only!
I promise to absorb it like a sponge, and come to my own conclusions.
1) To the victor go the spoils -- and the biggest "spoil" is the ability to write the history. Those who attempted to write the "real" history were shut up.
2) Not even the folks in Utah are taught their history properly.
3) When the USA took over, anyone who opposed them was put in prison or killed.
This is a good lesson for what they will do today, if we allow them.
I lived in Utah for 10 years (in the 1980's). While I was there, I spoke with some of the folks whose ancestors discussed the events in their diaries. But even when I lived there, rank and file folks WOULD NOT TALK ABOUT THIS!!!
Understand the lengths the US government went to in order to keep these folks in check. They destroyed families. They nationalized everything they could, and made the people buy back their own properties.
The forced half of the people to belong to one political party and the other half to belong to the other political party. Literally standing in a meeting and pointing to people and assigning them to a political party.
And even today, when people talk about the LDS Church and Deseret, all they talk about is polygamy. The disinformation is still so pervasive that getting real information is virtually impossible.
You will have to make friends with, gain the trust of, and then ask the people who still have the diaries to quote.
Good luck in your quest. I'm available for questions...
I figured out that you meant Johnston:
"Colonel Albert Sidney Johnston led the Utah Expedition to put down a Mormon rebellion against the Union. In the Civil War he became a high ranking general in the Confederate Army and was killed at the Battle of Shiloh in 1862."
A great deal of facts are here for anyone as interested as me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_De...
The female vote never had any chance to make any lasting impact, since all of this was pretty much settled within a handful of years, and most of those years were in constant flux politically. Deseret's quest for provisional statehood was never granted by Washington, although Washington was constantly interfering with Brigham Young's efforts to rule as he saw fit.
I am now determined to find some definitive historical account of the Mormon story!
PS: I ignored this thread after the stats were posted. I'm very glad I revisited it tonight.
BambiB: I've enjoyed reading your posts here more than in any other topic in the Gulch!
You OWN this one ;-)
Given the tyrannical "war on drugs" we are pretending to fight, I actually agree with them.
But to me, being a libertarian is MUCH more than that.
In the late 1840's, the country of Deseret allowed women (and even some of the Indians) the right to vote. They could own a business, own property, run for public office, etc. Those rights were stripped from them by the US government when Johnson's Army attacked and took over the country.
Where was Deseret? Parts/all of modern: Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, and California.
When gold was discovered in California, they applied for statehood, and it was granted. Unfortunately, there was a problem: The Mormons had been all but kicked out (via Gov Boggs extermination order). They went west to the Rocky Mountains, and established their own confederation with some of the local indians. They now were a significantly large country, well settled and organized.
Which is why the USA invaded them in an unprovoked attack. The USA nationalized the country and all of its assets. In the process of doing so, they also stripped women of their rights.
Now to the point: my research shows that Deseret never ran a deficit of any significant size. Social programs were ubiquitous, yet paid for.
The problem never was women voting. It was (and remains today) a lack of discipline and ethics.
Just for giggles and grins -- to add more fluff to this story, this is also when the SCOTUS made its first foray into dictating both religious freedom and marriage. For those who today think they are so out of line with their meddling with marriage, it is actually an old tradition of theirs.
They, literally, forced men to abandon their wife and children, or go to prison, many for the rest of their life.
Woman's Liberation has to have something to do with all of this, but I am not the right gender to talk about this. It did seem to be that roles were suddenly reversed...or else!
Double down on looting....
The emasculation of men is a huge part of the "bigger picture". Let me know how you feel at the finish!
Thanks again for the reference!
for the following datum: On a test of economics knowledge...
Females are more likely to get an âFâ than males (adults: 42% vs. 15%; students: 67% vs. 54%)
That is, the average adult female is almost THREE TIMES more likely to have a failing knowledge than is a corresponding male. Maybe women really DO believe that as long as they have checks they have money?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...
The second datum is a study done by University of Chicago that documented the fact that all the state and territorial governments, and the federal government itself, ran small and stable deficits from the time of their founding until women got the vote. That pattern was established for a period of roughly 100 to 150 years. Women did not get the vote all at once. As pointed out, Wyoming accorded women the vote in 1869 - more than 50 years before the feds got around to it. Other states likewise granted women the vote over that period of 50 years in a staggered pattern. In each case (according to the research, without exception) the deficits of the various governments began to rise following the women being allowed to vote.
This is not necessarily iron-clad proof that the women's vote was responsible - but where some 51 cases of something occur independently and uniformly, and without counter-example, one would have to be a blinkered fool not to give substantial weight to the case. And what alternative is there? Being spread out over time eliminates the possibility that some single outside event caused the deficits. For example, had all the women gotten the vote simultaneously in 1920, followed by rising deficits, it might be some factor in world economics driving all the deficits without regard to whether women voted or not.
In some regard, you are of course, correct. The majority of congress was, is and shall be for some time, predominantly male. Yet the job includes representing the constituency. If that constituency is demanding more welfare programs, a self-interested congressional representative will vote in such a way as to be re-elected. One who has the greater interests of the Country at heart in a liberal district, and refuses to "go along to get along", will be voted out by the majority women. Only in a few isolated cases (Ron Paul) have representatives been able to survive the onslaught of female voters.
Finally, I am not casting stones at women. They are acting in what they perceive to be their own self-interest. I've already mentioned that the average American (regardless of gender) is a moron. But suppose they are only poor at mathematics, don't think much about the future, don't understand economics and have bills to pay they cannot afford. Do you not think that such people would tend to vote in favor of any program that helps them? Instant gratification has killed more than one budget. "Buy now, pay later"... except that now it IS later, the bills are due and we are going into debt faster than ever.
Too, the evolution of women over the past 100,000 years has been different from men. It is no accident that the average male is stronger, or that the average female is better at communication. (Feel free to do your own research on those topics.) The bottom line is that women, generally, are more social (and socialistic) than men. It is a skill that women have depended upon for survival as surely as men have depended on physical strength.
So it is that women, being more risk averse than men, looking for solutions through social(ism) avenues naturally see nothing wrong with setting up programs that benefit them, never giving a thought to the future.
This lack of foresight will be the ruin of us all, and it is people now living, men and women, who will feel the full brunt of the lack of perspicacity.
Naturally, if someone has countering data, I am more than happy to review it. But given the response of some on this forum, I feel obligated to point out that saying, "That's sexist" is NOT evidence of anything but personal bias.
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