Colorado Wildfires Out Of Control!

Posted by khalling 12 years, 5 months ago to News
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how's that forest management program of "go natural" working out? 6500 people and counting evacuated on the North side of Colorado Springs, Royal Gorge ablaze 50 miles to the south of Springs. Low humidity and wind
SOURCE URL: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/12/colorado-wildfire-burns-through-homes-and-structures/


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  • Posted by $ Ripside 12 years, 5 months ago
    What are you suggesting? More taxpayer dollars spent managing the forests? Money spent researching, documenting, planning, regulating and implementing? Hmmm. Sounds like more government to me.

    How about you don't build a house in the middle of a forest, in a state known for it's wildfires?

    Wildfires ARE completely natural and have been happening since there were trees in arid climates, it's part of how nature recycles and balances itself, and starts anew.

    Planned,controlled burns are a regular occurrence here, because it's nature's way of clearing out the dead or dying forests.

    In 20 years, there will be a lot of fresh growth and new trees, free of the pine beetle problem for awhile, and hopefully with more diversity than single lodgepole pines or other similar species that the pine beetles thrive on, allowing them to jump easily from tree to tree and thrive.

    I'm NOT happy this is happening, and in no way do I want to come across like that. I have friends in the immediate area and feel terrible for anyone affected.

    But that said... Colorado IS a high plains desert, where there's little humidity and plenty of lightning year after year, this is nothing new. If you're going to intentionally build your house in a potential wildfire area, flood area, etc, you'd better make sure your homeowner's insurance premiums are paid up when summer comes around.
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    • Posted by $ erudeen 12 years, 5 months ago
      A generous portion of my hunting and fishing licenses would go towards funding these programs in the past. Also, park admission fees and use fees that are usually collected on an honor system.
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    • Posted by 12 years, 5 months ago
      The reason the west has so many large, hard to contain fires is becaue Teddy decided private individuals would destroy the forests through ill management. Then the enviros of the 70s came up with the policy of no longer managing forests and their growth, culling them of undergrowth, sickening stands, etc. For the 20 year reason you cite above. Since then, in the west there has been huge beetle infestation, the relative health of the forests has decreased and these problems have spread to private forests. In areas like the SE, where there is more of a partnership between govt managed forests and private (much more of those forests are privately owned) the forests are healthier. We had the pleasure of meeting and dining with a professor in forestry management from Auburn. He deplores the policy changes regarding forestry management of the last 40 years. It is a risk living in Colorado, I would not deny that. But I would also say there has been a marked increase of out of control fires since those policies changed.
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      • Posted by $ Ripside 12 years, 5 months ago
        Yes, I agree that federally owned and (mis)managed lands are part of the problem.

        This leads into a good, real-life question for objectivsists, which might be too off-topic for this thread. Perhaps something to pose to Peikoff:

        While I believe in little to no gov't regulations - how to we ensure that private or corporate interests wouldn't buy up all those forests and cut it all down for profit or gain, or maintain it as well or better than the private sector?

        The typical response is that corporate interests wouldn't benefit from destroying those natural areas - but they could, by mining, logging, building strip malls, etc.

        I lean towards asking real-life questions about objectivism and how it could really apply to our world today - and this is one of those topics that always leaves me a little unsure.
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        • Posted by 12 years, 5 months ago
          Ultimately, I would ask the question another way. Who decides the value of the forests? The federal ownership of land is arbitrary and inefficient. Your question presumes that someone who does not own the land (forests) and has not paid for it, has the right to decide for someone else what should be done with that property. On a practical note, evidence does not support your worry. Private forests are much better managed than public forests. The western governors have asked for a task force(yea, I know) to look into allowing for private partnership for these woefully mismanaged forests.
          http://www.pewstates.org/projects/statel...
          In Colorado, the environmentalists had so brainwashed federal forestry programs that they refused to continue the policy of spraying for insects. Within 5 years Colorado forests have been devastated by beetle kill. Private companies then asked to come into these dead forests due to the beetle kill and harvest the deadwood. apparently, beetles make interesting pattern on the trunks of trees. They wanted to pay for the dead trees! The federal govt said no. They wanted the forests to "naturally" rejuvenate. Just driving through areas near Breckenridge, aspen and seeing all these dead stands-it's awful. Same as looking at a burned forest. and it is primed for wildfire! Dangerous not only to nearby human developments but the wildlife as well. and it could have been prevented. Last summer we were in Yellowstone, and driving through the sections where the big fire in the 80's happened-how does it look? Terrible! Sure the forest struggles to come back but it takes decades and decades-and needn't have been so huge-if they had properly managed the forests in the first place.
          I'm one of those man over nature kinda people :)
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          • Posted by $ Ripside 12 years, 5 months ago
            I appreciate your comments, and can't disagree. No, no 3rd party has a right to dictate how a landowner cares for his land, as long as it doesn't pose a danger to those around him.

            My question was rhetorical, and meant to spark commentary. Do we, as a society, have an obligation to protect our natural wonders? Will it happen 'naturally' without regulation, or would it lead to wide-spread destruction and loss of an important natural resource? Again, rhetorical questions.

            I've witnessed the desruction in CO. I took a drive up Swan Drive last year, near Dillon, up to Sapphire Trail, and it was heartbreaking.
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            • Posted by 12 years, 5 months ago
              "our" still suggests ownership. we do not have the "right" to force others to spend their time and money to protect what others consider natural wonders. we have been so conditioned to see things through the prism of man is bad. man destroys, when in fact just the opposite is true. I know I would never consider buying a beautiful acreage of land only to destroy its beauty. In say mining areas, one has to determine the "value" of the land. and value changes over time. If I buy an area to mine, strip and pull my value from it, I might well be the one to turn around and afford an area e now hold as natural monument. As technology increases, so do extrusion and excavation techniques, leaving less area stripped. But honestly, a state prairie preserve if bought by a farmer will likely be planted with crops. The relative value of a prairie preserve is inefficient and likely over-inflated considering it was bought and maintained with others' money.
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