The Collectivist Control of Education

Posted by marshafamilaroenright 4 years, 8 months ago to Education
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Please join us if you're in the DC area, Sunday, February 28th.
SOURCE URL: http://rifinst.org/lecture-feb-28-what-education-could-be-like-in-a-free-society/


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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 4 years, 8 months ago
    You can throw all the money and resources in the world at education but without fixing the family it will have no beneficial effect.
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    • Posted by Bethesda-gal 4 years, 8 months ago
      I don't disagree. But how do you fix the family, without educating them on how to do better ? Vicious circle ? Maybe link social welfare benefits to education as well as to work ? ( that Obama de-coupled, or more accurately neutered)
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      • Posted by ChuckyBob 4 years, 8 months ago
        What you suggest would be a good thing. I would start off by looking at factors that cause parents to be disengaged from their children. We have a lot of factors in our society that cause this such as selfish hedonism and influences that train fathers (maybe I should refer to them as chromosome donors rather than fathers) to objectify their wife and children rather than seeing them as actual feeling humans.
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        • Posted by 4 years, 8 months ago
          The conditions set by the government through which mothers get welfare and free apartments, etc. require that no father is around. After generations of this, the men being unvalued developed a sad, unproductive under culture.
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      • Posted by blackswan 4 years, 8 months ago
        Do you really think that you need to teach them?!? How did the ex-slaves figure it out? If you remove the perverse incentives that are supporting dysfunctional behavior, the problem will go away. Just look at the partial success of the Clinton welfare reform; million left the welfare roles.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 8 months ago
        I agree you can't fix the family without fixing education as education is one of the main stakes in the heart of the concept of family the way we think of it

        .Not only have to fix education - words like lobotomy come to mind - you have to fix five generations and completely replace teaching staffs, Since they can no longer be trusted put them to work replacing the illegals and the Mexican Immigrants to work replacing the non productive slugs
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        • Posted by EAJewett 4 years, 8 months ago
          I beg to differ on the teachers. Many have their hands tied by state mandates and local administrative shortsightedness. I don't know any other profession that largely now requires a Masters that gets so little respect or support.
          I don't disagree that the result may be a generation sadly lacking critical thinking skills, an EARNED sense of self-worth, or the drive to continue learning.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 8 months ago
            All teachers are not tarred with the NEA brush and I know many that would willingly cross and have crossed picket lines. They put their students ahead of the union that is forced upon them.

            They are professionals the others laborers. White Collar versus Blue Collar

            They are also few and far between. Most districts will shut down and play vote for us or we will cut off football,basket ball, music and most play to the fears of those with children currently in school garnering just enough votes to pass budgets year after year ...and returning little for the investment.

            Most hate filling out three or four forms instead of teaching. And some refuse to do so.

            Go to the inner cities it's even worse. Sure they make movies about the heroic one's but movies do not correct reality.

            Those teachers are few and far between. Then we have the go along get alongs on down to those who condone sale of drugs within the schools themselves and other unacceptable attitudes...

            And the result is a student body who graduates with honors but cannot add nor subtract nor put together and hand write a simple sentence.

            The problem in education is pandemic with a few islands of self-innoculation. If that is indeed a word.

            Most are forced into being government spies and in many cases it is needed.But teaching children their parents are of no consequence does not save families.

            Do the schools become the family?

            Hardly they turn their back on the students once their shoved through the grist mill and sent out as failures to be in a world that doesn't care why Johnny cannot think, write nor speak. The world that says if you work you will be paid and if you cannot function their is no job for you.

            And so they drift into 'higher education' based on free ride for the moment loans and attempt to gain what they were denied in the first 12 years.

            And enter the world of debt management which has it's own perils. A few escape by entering the military when they have gained enough knowledge to pass the entrance exams.

            Some don't make it. Some get the military education assistance and use it IF they don't stay in for a career and find it's been taken away as the Mongomery GI Bill did to Vietnam era career soldiers in too many cases.

            But most go back to the 'hood and scant choices there except perhaps the occasional free temporarily housing programs compliments of Franck and Dodd.

            Some never make to simole literacy.

            While in the schools the standards are lowered while the pay checks are fattened.

            The politicians have their cannon fodder and baby factories. What else are they good for.

            And turn their backs.

            Families become 13 year old mothers with children they cannot feed as they cannot feed themselves

            and they are left with all that wonderful self-esteem that buys nothing at the store.

            but that's not all teachers or all students. Just the majority.

            Might as well have a war. It reduces the welfare roles and fattens the campaign coffers. What else is the public good for.
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      • Posted by 4 years, 8 months ago
        I've thought about this a lot, being a resident of the South Side of Chicago. I think families that have been on welfare for generations have a horrible amount to learn, but if our economy was far freer, they could be weaned off of welfare and start getting jobs where they could learn how to live independently. They would need a lot of help and support, the development of many skills, from charitable organizations too.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 8 months ago
          Easy dump socialist economics, unfetter capitalism for the first time ever, and don't equate learning to live independently with a lot of help developing skills from charitable organizations.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 4 years, 8 months ago
    Marsha, thank you very much for the lecture and the Q/A was excellent as well. A pleasure to see and be in the company of intelligent people - a rare occurrence. One question that I forgot to ask there - the collectivist education in the former Soviet Union and China was certainly geared towards creating slaves of the State, but it was also very strong in the sciences and math. The State wanted engineers and scientists, and it created them well. Why does American collectivist [primary] education so miserably fails in these subjects?
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    • Posted by 4 years, 7 months ago
      Thanks for our kind comments, I'm glad you got a lot out of it. As to your question, I'm not sure but my best surmise is that the Soviet Union and China were trying to industrialize in order to have military power equivalent to the U.S., so they pushed math and science (think of the history of the space race BTW, interesting book to read about that is Red Star in Orbit). America is already powerful due to freedom and the collectivists want to take that away from any pro-freedom forces, so they undermine real education.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 4 years, 8 months ago
    Well, I'd like to go. But I can't afford that kind of
    travel nowadays.--But then, I have never had chil-
    dren. Still, my money has been taken to support
    public education, and it is being done in my name,
    and yet I have never been to a school board meeting (unlike the advice I gave someone a
    few days ago).--Of course, I really just want the
    d--n thing abolished.--But that's not going to hap-
    pen very soon.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 4 years, 8 months ago
    the govt control of the education system is it's biggest propaganda tool...and produces it's most loyal pro-govt citizens...and in a democracy with tyranny of the majority, the reason the collapse of the fascist/socialist system is a question of WHEN not IF...prepare...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 4 years, 8 months ago
    And it all started, in this country, with none other than.........Woodie Wilson!..haah ah ha-ha, haha ah ha-ha...hahahahahah

    That little pecker...
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    • Posted by LibertyBelle 4 years, 8 months ago
      I'm no fan of Woodrow Wilson (albeit he was born
      in the greatest city on earth, but he can't claim
      credit for that), but are you accusing him of inven-
      ting public education? Seems to me it existed be-
      fore he came along.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 4 years, 8 months ago
        No, it was established at that time that one would learn how to learn, not how to think which was previously the way we were educated...kinda like Pre common core...pre "look see" (as opposed to phonics) - I lived through that and it was confusing.

        woodie is generally credited (or discredited) with creating that system of learning.

        Also established during that time was allopathic medicine- "address the symptoms and forget the cause." Not to mention...Margarette Sanger's eugenics of "the lower races" - her misunderstanding, not mine
        .

        I find that interesting. also, as it does relate to liberal progressive thoughtlessness.
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        • Posted by LibertyBelle 4 years, 8 months ago
          I see. I have heard things lately about him on
          talk radio; I had not known much about him be-
          fore. I knew that he had pushed the League of
          Nations (for which I have contempt; I'm glad the
          U.S. didn't join it). My high school was named
          after him (but I hated school, anyway; in a way,
          it seems appropriate to me that public schools
          be named after s.o.b's.); and, of course, his
          birthplace has been pushed as a tourist attrac-
          trion for Staunton (which is a blot one should
          overlook, in view of the fact that Staunton also
          contains a certain excellent curb service res-
          taurant).
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          • Posted by ewv 4 years, 8 months ago
            Beware conservative 'narratives' spread on talk radio in the name of history. Yes Woodrow Wilson was a villain but he didn't start progressivism or invent public education, let alone education as indoctrination.

            For a good history of how state run education began in the US in the early 19th century as a result of the statist influence of European intellectuals, German education practice, and a religious war with Unitarians afraid of Catholic dominance, read Samuel L. Blumenfeld's Is Public Education Necessary?. Despite the title it is history.

            The later "progressive education" came from John Dewey and the Pragmatists, the American version of bad European philosophy that began in the late 19th century in Cambridge, MA and Harvard, from where it has dominated American culture.
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            • Posted by LibertyBelle 4 years, 7 months ago
              That's what I thought. I have an encyclopedia set
              which was given to me by my brother, and I looked
              up Woodrow Wilson in it, but it really didn't have all
              that much information about him. I don't think it said anything about his having a great effect on changing public education one way or the other,
              or about his "resegregating" the military.
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