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Should I Even Speak to Our School Board?

Posted by Abaco 9 years, 11 months ago to Education
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I've had enough of Common Core. It's the catalyst to finally push me to look into homeschool groups for my family. (We are in a great charter, but charters must comply.) I use math all the time in my work, and so I think my views are backed by something, are relevant. I am contemplating speaking to our Board of Education for our district at one of the upcoming public meetings. I know I can frame this discussion and put forth my position in a way that will have impact. But, you know what?...I'm to the point that I don't think it will matter. Albert Einstein could dig himself up from the grave and stagger into the meeting specifically to address this with our Board members and I think they'd ignore him.

What do my fellow Gulchers think? Thanks...


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  • Posted by $ Your_Name_Goes_Here 9 years, 11 months ago
    I'm a school board member for a local Community College, and I would by all means encourage you to address the Board with your concerns! Your arguments may sway a Board member or members who feels that they are in the minority and therefore they need to "go along to get along" which happens with some Boards.

    Just my $0.02...
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    • Posted by voodoo59 9 years, 11 months ago
      I was a school board member for 8 years. Real world people giving real world examples carry lots of weight with board members who typically hear a constant drone of "eduspeak". I agree with YNGH- go speak to the board, and remember, they are there to represent the public interest.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
    Abaco, I sat on the dental board in my state. At one point the members passed a rule which was in conflict with the law; the board did not have the authority to enforce this rule. I made dissenting remarks of a logical and strong nature. Not only did every other member vote against me, they actually voted to delete my remarks from the record!
    I made no difference at all, but still I am DAMN glad I said it. Would I do it again? Probably not.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 9 years, 11 months ago
      Those are the right kinds of boards...

      ...to shrug from.

      They gave you an excellent out - "I'm sorry, but if this assembly chooses to not just disregard, but break, the law, I not only will be forced to resign but to turn over this information to the Attorney General's office, as I will have no part in your illegal actions."

      Would I do that? Damned right I would. I am not going to jail for a bunch of idiot moochers...
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 11 months ago
      Good for you, MamaEmma. Screw them - with a broken screwdriver.

      Jan
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
        Jan, here was the situation. It had recently been decided by the state attorney general that it would be legal for dentists to perform Botox injections to the face. So these idiot board members decided to make a rule that a dentist had to make formal application to the dental board to deliver Botox, and a subcommittee of 3 people would approve or deny them. Well, that's illegal as hell. Those 3 people had no damn right to be high and mighty and allow or deny the dentist the right to perform legally approved procedures. No wonder our freedoms are shrinking every day, when that kind of crap goes on.
        And here's the kicker. Every one of those 3 dentists on the subcommittee were barely functioning alcoholics. And they presume to pass judgment on others. Oh, well. No wonder I love the Gulchers!
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        • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 11 months ago
          I find this erosion going on as well. Recently, the receptionist at my vet's office told me I had to sign a waiver in order to buy my dog's drugs from somewhere other than 'their own pharmacy'. I told them that I believed that it was my legal right to have a prescription filled anywhere that was licensed to do so.

          I refused to sign the waiver. I took the prescription out of the receptionists other hand and walked out - drove to Walmart and got it filled. I had words with the vet personnel the next time I went in. (NB The best veterinarian I have had in recent years works there. None of this took place in her presence.)

          I still want to set up an appointment to go back in and talk to that (good) vet in person. I believe that she is the chief honcho there and I may be able to convince her that the waiver is borderline in legality (and marginal in ethics). (Normally if I have a problem like this, I just change vets...but this vet has Common Sense and I would like to keep her.)

          Do you have any advice for me on this issue?

          Jan
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          • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
            Another example of playing on people's stupidity. Most people would go, "Oh! OK!" Our society is rife with this kind of thing now. The worst part?...Often, even the minions who are assigned the task of hornswaggling the customer like that often don't know better. I once worked at an establishment where they took the lowest-level clerk from Personnel and had her write and send letters to many of the employees saying the employees needed to write the employer checks for taking too much vacation. They hadn't, the Personnel office had just screwed up their database. The poor lady was so stupid. They eventually just canned her, too.

            God...we're really in trouble...
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
            Absolutely I would talk to her about this issue. Maybe there is something I am not aware of, but this seems borderline unethical to me. In any case, it's important that you know what her reasoning is, and that she knows what you think about this waiver. I'd be interested to hear what she says. My thought is that she will say, we just want to make sure that if you don't buy it here that you will fill the prescription elsewhere. Let me know what happens.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
        Thanks, Jan. I respect you and your strength, so that means a lot.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 11 months ago
          It makes me feel good that you stood up for what was right. If the Board had been playing with a decent set of cards, you should have had a good chance of changing their minds. Much of the time, I find that if someone contests a poor decision, it collapses because it could only have been maintained by not being noticed.

          So I do not think that it was a futile gesture. It might have worked.

          Jan
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
            On a very small scale, it was what is wrong with our country today. I had to try, and I at least wanted it on the record that someone objected. I was amazed that they could actually vote to change what was in the minutes of the meeting. Like I said, I learned a lot.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
              Yeah...I'm surprised they could erase minutes of the meeting. If it was a State board that was likely, clearly illegal.
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              • Posted by voodoo59 9 years, 11 months ago
                Always a good idea for everyone involved to have a digital recorder running. It's pretty difficult to change the minutes with a digital record. Not so hard with only written minutes.
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              • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 11 months ago
                From what Mamaemma indicates, it was illegal to change the minutes to conceal an illegal act...at some point, they just stopped caring.

                I guess that this is what the internet is for. If it had just happened, one could Out Them.

                Jan
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                • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
                  Jan, in the total scheme of things, noone would care. It happened only a couple of years ago, but outing them would make no difference at all. I am very cynical now.
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              • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 11 months ago
                I agree, Abaco. It was clearly illegal. It was also clear to me that the lawyer who was there representing the Attorney General (who is there to make sure all procedings are within the law) had no intention of doing anything about it. There was one board member who ran the board as his own personal little fiefdom, and everyone else but me just voted as he told them to. When I made the objection I mentioned above, he literally ended up screaming at me.
                As I said, I learned so very much from the whole experience. I actually was able to do some good in the beginning, then this little petty tyrant figured out to contact the other members before the meeting in order to insure the vote and block my efforts. I am SO glad to be off that board. I am 100% cynical about government at this point.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 11 months ago
    Are you ready to strike or not?
    At this point are you Rearden or Galt?
    If your answer is Galt, do you have a plan to stop the motor of the world?
    Which will be more likely to have the effect you want, (a) presenting your rational argument to the school board, or (b) doing nothing?
    Do you understand if the local school board can act as you argue even if they agree?
    Your 'solution' must be lower risk, greater reward for the school board members than the status quo.

    Personally, I choose to think that we must do something or the statists will win. But, know your enemy, and have a rational strategy and specific tactics to practice.
    (Apologies for stating what is obvious to you, Abaco.)
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      Great points. And, I am unsure I even want the attention.

      Your comment reminds me of something I told the Superintendent of our last district (where we actually live). They got caught (we found out later) actually beating up kids with autism. They, through their special ed admin, systematically screwed over families of kids with special needs. In front of a large group of parents with kids with special needs (the ONLY time the district ever organized such a group...) I made the statement, "You have such a great group of caring, involved parents here. You should see us as a resource, not as adversaries." The crowd exploded. But...it didn't matter. My son was already in a private school at that time.

      In my gut, I feel that trying to help is worse than pounding sand... I feel as though the machine is in automatic mode and it's going to simply gobble up kids and their families. Nothing can stop it. But...I appreciate the input from my fellow Gulchers, of course.
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      • Posted by khalling 9 years, 11 months ago
        I read this great article over the weekend. A charter school in PA was requiring all of it's incoming freshman to take a pre-engineering class. Basically, they choose a big project and make it happen using skills and putting to work their math skills to that place and geometry-which they have not yet had much of. Then db said-it will be a huge success and then the district will pay attention and take it over and ruin it. My sister is homeschooling two of her children. She is actually using a curriculum from 1840. The first semester (I've heard others say a year) can be tough-then most say it just breaks through and a great learning flow happens. I also love the idea of looking at family vacays like field trips :)
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        • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
          Yes, I can see how there are big benefits to that approach. I noticed something recently. My son will bring home 3 to 4 sheets of math problems. All of them cover the same material, along with a little Common Core thrown in to confuse. He'll spend an hour or two doing the sheets. Yet, I can stand at the whiteboard I installed in his homework room and teach him a mathematical topic in about 10 minutes. I've taught him several things they don't address at his age: factorials, negative numbers, exponents. Just last night I showed him how to calculate the area of a triangle. It just seems to come so easy...
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 11 months ago
    Has anyone spoke to them about it? If not, and you have any desire for them to do something different, then yes. If you or others have spoken to them about other things and they have not responded favorably, I wouldn't waste my time. I would send them a short letter stating why you've pulled your children. My 2 cents, for what it is worth.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 11 months ago
      I don't know if anybody has spoken to them. I haven't attended any meetings because I work about 70 hours per week. Work. Play with my kids. Hit the gym late at night. Work again...
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      • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 11 months ago
        Sorry, I did not expect you to answer that question to me. That was just my thought process.

        What you bring up is a very valid issue. It likely would be a waste of productive time going to a school board meeting since most members would likely give you blank stares. The likely hood of getting positive results is slim to none. I don't envy the decisions you need to make.
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  • Posted by dsalkindc13 9 years, 11 months ago
    I agree that you should speak to the board. However, I am hoping you're in a small district somewhere with a small quantity of schools. The reason i say that is because I live in NYC and there are just too many schools here and it would take more than 1 person or 1 family to change their mind. I too despise the common core and my son is having a hard time with it as well. He already is one step behind because of his autism but the common core completely trashes him. I understand some of what they are doing for the common core only becasue I am dyslexic and the common core was created by a dyslexic person to make the testing easier. which has totally confused the parents who try to help their kids learn this backwards way. It would seem that kids with dyslexia should do better but they don't mainly because we are bad test takers, and have been for a while. yes there are some who excel at taking tests but most do not. Sorry to be so long winded to answer your question. Go to the board but bring lots of other families with you. maybe that will be the spark that lights the fire under the education system to evolve a change.
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  • Posted by $ SarahMontalbano 9 years, 11 months ago
    I feel like a very powerful presentation could make a difference, but it's really at the national level now. I encourage you to take a shot at it. Let me know how it works! Common Core is destroying my brother's math education and my own.
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  • Posted by Stormi 9 years, 11 months ago
    You likely would be wasting your time, they are thinking of money, and those sending the money are thinking of one world dumbed down future citizens. If you go, be extremely calm, make sure you know the Delphi Technique, as it is at all meetings it seems - marginalize the one with the complaint.
    Back when it was Outcome Based Education, Clintnton's baby), the forerunner of Common Core, I had one teacher tell me they did not have it in our school. I listed the elements one by one, and he admitted they had each. However, he said, "we don't call it that" - therefore, it did not exist there. To this day, they refuse to give what the kids were taught under that one at Colunbine any blame at all, even though a local TV station held a panel discussion on the dangers of what was being taught the year before.
    Now, they just brainwash, and forget academics, it just gets in the way.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 11 months ago
    Find out what the standards actually require and define what you want them to teach. Start out with the assertion that as a person who works in a mathematically field, you believe it's critical to each X and/or not teach Y. If they answer CC, you'll have some evidence that your suggestion doesn't affect compliance. Don't start with criticizing CC because they may have marching orders to follow it, and they'll see your suggestion and creating more headaches for them.

    Also, I would approach the teacher directly. He/she may be able to implement your suggestions without making a big deal out of it.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 11 months ago
    Abaco -

    I would say, "Address the matter. Do so bluntly and at a meeting that has good attendance by parents." (If you know ahead of time of other parents who agree with you, be sure they attend.)

    Do you think that all of the parents agree with Common Core? Many of them probably do not, but lack a catalyst. The members of the Board will not care what you say, but if a large number of parents chime in, agreeing with you, the Board will care what 'they' say.

    The most probably direct outcome is still homeschooling, but there is a chance that you could trigger a massive reaction from other parents and actually effect a change. And even if you do not, you have stood up for rationality and free choice.

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 11 months ago
    I have heard from parents the these boards are party line, and may be in on the graft built into testing.
    I might do both, say something...see how they respond and at the same time...teach your kid the right way...that goes for history, science, morals and the values of hard work.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 11 months ago
    I don't know. Is Common Core in your school
    system? (It has been many years since I had to
    go to either elementary or high school, and I have
    no children). Kudos to you for looking into home-
    schooling. But what groups? I thought home
    schoolers were supposed to just teach their
    children at home. Can't you and the children's
    mother do that? (Though my homeschooling
    friends do go to some kind of group meetings).

    I have tried to get some kind of employment in
    that way, by offering my services as a phonics
    tutor, but I guess they don't need me, if they are
    doing it themselves. But if you want to go that
    route, don't take too long just "looking into" it,
    while the kids suffer in that school system.
    I think you should still go to the school board,
    to prevent too much damage being done
    to the community's children (and, eventually, the
    citizens). After all, whether your children are in
    that school system or not, you are still paying
    for it, and you should not allow too much crap
    to be done in your name.
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  • Posted by walkabout 9 years, 11 months ago
    In the 1970s Elliot Aronson, a Texas psychologist created a cooperative learning process for high schools aimed at reducing the racial struggles then rampant in schools throughout the country. His system was very effective both in educating students and eliminating racial issues (which were common elsewhere in the country. With the success of the Jigsaw Classroom, Elliot set up a foundation and offered to train teachers at cost of materials and travel anywhere in the country. As he puts it, "nobody called." later he researched the stunning silence, interviewing administrators. Their universal answer to why they had passively rejected the Jigsaw Classroom was "my phone isn't ringing" Parents and community leaders were not demanding this (or any) proven, safe system for actually educating their children. thus, allowing the disaster that is modern education to flourish (no to mention racial tensions, fights, even riots in some places). So yes, speak up, call, remind them (the school board and administrators) that they work for you and the students. But also note, a news story today reports the psychologist who helped "victim #1" accuse Jerry Sandusky was fired from his county level job. No good turn goes unpunished.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 11 months ago
    Waaay back when my boys were growing, I was unhappy about teaching methods then.('65 - '75). I found that when putting forth well reasoned criticisms, I got nods of approval, "we'll get back to you" followed by nothing. My son, being smarter than me, sent his kids to a well interviewed Montessori school. Are the Montessori schools also forced to comply with Common Core? If so, home schooling is an option, if you have the time, determination and patience.
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  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 9 years, 11 months ago
    Hi Abaco,
    You don't mention what state you live in. The reason I bring this up is b/c teacher's unions are all-powerful in some states ( like Maryland) so taking action as an individual in those areas is pointless. ( You might recall it was in Maryland last year where the father was removed from a Board of Ed meeting in handcuffs for challenging the status quo. It was all caught on video, so it wasnt a matter of the parent being threatening, other than threatening the powers that be. It was also in Md where an elem school kid was suspended for biting his Poptart into the shape of a gun. So Md is a lost cause.) So first you have to know your environment to assess it. Second, if you don't live in a state like Maryland, then see if any other parents feel like you do. If you can find even one or two people ( esp. if they have big community or neighborhood connections behind them - power in numbers !) then the next thing I'd do would be to get familiar with your Board of Ed members. If you can identify any alliances there, then schedule meetings with them individually to try to get their cooperation ( they're supposed to be representing YOU, not the other way around but they forget that.) and then if possible, organize all the supportive members into a power block that can withstand those on the board who will not want to change course. Will all this take a lot of time and effort? Yep. But so will home schooling. But if you're successful with changing the curriculum, you'll help change ( improve) your corner of the world.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 11 months ago
    What is your goal? If you want to assure education for your kid, you should already be aware that public education will not do it. The system is designed to create morons. Whatever natural abilities your kids may have had, by the time they graduate, all will be lost. The system is specifically designed for this purpose. Now, telling the administration that they are succeeding in their purpose will get you what?
    I suggest that it is much better to quietly pull your child out of the school system and homeschool, either through a group or by yourself. There are a number of good programs on the computer, plus clubs and activities that the child can participate it. Unfortunately, the money that you're paying for the public un-education is gone. So be it. Think of it as another tax on life, but at least save the kid. If you make an issue, the school system will most likely take it as a challenge and they will challenge you back with social service parasites, courts, unfit parent accusations, etc. - is it worth it, especially knowing that you can't win?
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  • Posted by SBilko 9 years, 11 months ago
    You are either in the system or out of it. If you are in it, it makes no sense to anything that does not have a good chance of achieving your goals. If you're just venting, the system wins. The best course may be to get yourself elected to the board, but that will only make a difference if you are part of a majority. If you are out of the system, then take rational action to provide the best education possible for your kids and forget the school board.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 11 months ago
    I would at least try to speak to the school board. Here are a couple of things you need to know, however.

    1. You aren't likely to change their minds. They are looking at things from a funding perspective and until the rules change on a national level, that funding source is still the first thing on their minds.
    2. It's not about education at all. The Common Core curriculum was developed to sell books - not to educate. No teachers I've talked to (especially mathematics teachers) like the materials, as they are incredibly counter-intuitive. What's worse is that many of the problems they give the students are either outrageous, or exactly the same, and they are very poorly vetted. I can't tell you how many I've come across with my kids with misspellings and even incorrect answers in their keys.

    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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