Rachel Maddow Sums Up Atlas Shrugged

Posted by khalling 10 years ago to Philosophy
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An older article brought to my attention by the Gulch's Fuguewriter. I am interested in makers you have met who, although not a Rearden or a Galt, impressed you as Pat Logan impressed Dagny.
SOURCE URL: http://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2012/08/20/rachel-maddow-fails-ayn-rand-101


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  • Posted by overmanwarrior 10 years ago
    There are some great points in that article.

    "It is the left that divides up the world into “the rich” and “everybody else.” Rand doesn’t think in those terms.



    Atlas, for instance, includes rich heroes (Hank Rearden, Francisco D’Anconia) and non-rich heroes (John Galt, Quentin Daniels), as well as rich villains (James Taggart, Orren Boyle) and non-rich villains (the Starnes heirs)."

    The novel is all about productive and unproductive, and that is a big difference. Those who hate the novel are generally unproductive. It is very unlikely that a hard worker would find Atlas Shrugged bad literature. Because they can relate to it. Those who are lazy, can't.

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    • Posted by tpatter4 10 years ago
      You could've stopped with, "It is the left that divides." But back to your point, looters & moochers like to blame the rich: Moochers do it because it's a great way to wield the weapon of guilt; Looters do it because they can appear to be compassionate while actually giving nothing of themselves. I am certainly not wealthy, but I have worked for everything I have, and I applaud those who have earned great wealth. Can't wait until September!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years ago
    I have never met a true leftist who could understand anything A.R. has written, especially Atlas. It's as if they filter everything through a distortion lens which makes their conclusions fit a pre-determined pattern, and no matter how you try, you can never get them to unscrew their convoluted view.
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  • Posted by Susannah 10 years ago
    I think of all the great teachers I had in my school days. They certainly were not rich, but they were, indeed, producers. Among my class of graduates there are family doctors, surgeons, military officers, lawyers, accountants, architects, engineers ... practically every profession you can name. None of them would be where they are today without those dedicated teachers who had high standards and accepted no excuses from us. Wish education today were as rigidly academic.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years ago
    You do not need to read Atlas Shrugged to have a very poor opinion of it. All you need is to listen to someone who feels threatened by Rand's ideas. "Don't bother reading that crap. Nobody reads Rand. She's useless. she's all for the rich, and has no feelings for the poor people."

    Those people who are Rand's villains in real life recognize themselves in her fiction, and don't want others to discover their dirty secrets.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years ago
    my favorite Pat Logan was the young crop duster Collett Everman Woolman, who in 1925 started a tiny air mail service. by his personal example, Delta Airlines grew up around him, and when he retired, it took 13 people to replace him.
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  • Posted by $ FredTheViking 10 years ago
    Once I took a flight from Boston to China. I was about 22 years old and I was not an objectivist at the time. I ordered a value meal from Burger King at the terminal in Vancovour, CA and encounter the best crew worker ever.

    I was impressed by her speed, compentency, accurancy, and level service she was able to provide. She put just about every crew worker I remember from my job to shame (myself included). At the time, I wondered why she took her job so seriously. I mean it is a "shit job". I guess I have grown a lot since then :).
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  • Posted by RonC 10 years ago
    Rachel is not mature enough to appreciate AS. All of the people I know that truly understand AS have read it several times. To the immature that alone is beyond understanding. There are rich and powerful people in AS, most of them are takers. The heroine is also rich. The difference between Dagny and her brother is not money, it is the solving problems in such a way that "unintended consequences" are minimal and the sum of the solution's parts is greater than the individual tally, or what we call "productivity." All of the key producer's in the book had a different vision of the world and their place in it than the government and society as shaped by the government. That different vision is important because if everyone liked the same thing, there would only be 1 thing. This is why central committee, top down, government can't provide the wealth and diversity of ideas that capitalism does.

    I'm not certain anyone will ever know all of the nuances Rand built into the context of her writing. If there were an audio book of her reading the script that would be revealing as well. We can only imagine the inflection she would use, and that communicates as much or more than her words. Even if we knew all the Rand intended, Rachel would never get it. It perfectly normal for her and her government to tell us how to live. Even if she were bluntly told how the world works she would shut the door to her mind. Maddow and her ilk have great disdain for any ideas that are contrary to their world view of sheople, brother's keepers, and wealth redistribution.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago
    An interesting article. It's obvious that Maddow didn't read AS before she offered that description.

    For examples of Pat Logan in my life, I could literally list at least several dozens, if not a few hundred. I've worked with others since I was 8 or so in more varied fields and areas than I could possibly list here. In every one of those experiences, I've met and admired men and a few women, (often wishing that I could also find the contentment and pride in finding a satisfying niche) that were so competent and happy in their work, that they demonstrated an ease, grace, and confidence that was simply amazing. In all of those cases, I seldom heard a complaint about pay or relative positions (except when obviously dealing with incompetence), generally they were glad to accept new projects and invariably found or had apprentice types that they gladly taught and/or mentored. They were commonly honorable and loyal to those that remembered to acknowledge them with a simple 'Thank you' or 'Good job.'

    Such people were often very key persons to operations and companies, though seldom willing to look for or accept promotion. I found myself using those individuals to 'teach' new supervisors and managers, much like the grizzled platoon Sgt. with the shavetail 1st Lt.

    I think that it's a matter of pride in oneself and the happiness developed in having found that expertise that provides that pride.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 10 years ago
    I have always thought that many people on the left that despise Atlas Shrugged never read it. I am guessing that someone they respect told them not to like it for reasons X Y Z. I think if they could read it with an open mind they might be surprised.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      can you give me an example of someone you admired for their concentration and pride in their work even though their job may be lower on the corporate ladder?
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      • Posted by iroseland 10 years ago
        go meet a skilled baker. While not very high up the corp ladder, the ones who get the word skilled used to describe them pretty much epitomize concentration and pride in work. I have not met one, I have met loads of them. To tell the truth, I meet people like that all the time. Even the evening janitorial folks... I learned a long long time ago that while most folks treat them like furniture, they are the eyes and ears of any organization. Ok, I cheated.. Back in college I worked in janitorial services for a bit and it was there that I learned that as soon as I changed in to work uniform I would pretty much disappear as a person, back then I thought it was liberating..
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        • Posted by 10 years ago
          my husband's first job was night janitor at a pathology lab. He had to throw away lots of limbs.:(
          I have met many as well. But now we spend so much of our time with entrepreneurs running companies, that I was interested in some of these producers that have impressed gulchers.
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          • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
            I think we too often get caught up in evaluating success by a individual by their position on the corp. ladder, when most people are not even on a ladder - successful or not. Most people (according to SBA numbers) work for businesses with fewer than 50 employees. That number is changing as we move away from small (even micro) business to large mega corps.

            Ayn Rand described a driver of a city bus "expertly maneuvering the large vehicle" in glowing terms. It seems that she saw that any position in life could be aspired to. That any position in life could be so expertly worked that the workman should glow in the performance. And it seems to me that she would see such expert workmanship having it's own reward, quite separated from the payscale. After all, a expert garbageman who goes to great lengths to stand my cans upright and put the lids back on correctly would be a great employee and great for the customer, but I doubt they would ever earn what a CEO will.

            I know many craftsmen who excel in their hand work and trade. Some earn fare livings, but others just get by. While they may be expert craftsman, most are not expert businessmen.
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            • Posted by 10 years ago
              good points
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              • Posted by jpellone 10 years ago
                I agree that evaluating success should not be just in a high position in a corporation. They all (or at least most) had to work their way up to that position...
                I once went into a KFC for lunch and placed my order as I normally do and the gentleman that took my order was very happy and appeared happy to see me. As I watched him get my lunch together I was noticing how fast and sure he was moving, never losing his terrific smile. I think that was the fastest I ever got my meal from that KFC. After we sat down to eat and there were no customers at the counter, he came out to the floor and started cleaning everything. He was working a mile a minute but never lost his great smile. He even came by my table twice asking if we needed any refills or anything else. I was so impressed by his motivation and positive attitude that I yelled to the manager, "This man needs a raise!" He then tells me that he was at the max pay for his position. So I then yelled to the manager "He needs a promotion!" A couple weeks later he was gone and I found out that they had sent him to managerial school. I was so happy and I know that this mid 20's gentleman will go far in his life as long as he keeps his spark burning!!!
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  • Posted by MikeJoyous 10 years ago
    Maddow wrote an interpretation of Atlas that was in line with her own worldview. She did not try to understand the novel. From her point of view, Rand was against empowering the government to give to the poor. So that meant she must be for the rich against the poor.
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  • Posted by NealS 10 years ago
    A second thought on Rachel's attempt to demean Ayn's writing of Atlas Shrugged. Rachel's report summarized, "In Ayn Rand’s novel, she leads her readers to see the wealthiest people as heroes, heroes that must be protected. . . . The rich are heroes and everybody else is a taker. The more the rich have, the better. The better for everyone. That is not fiscal conservatism either. It is something else."

    It's extremely obvious to me that Rachel never read it, her prejudices got in the way of telling the truth, and/or she is an outright liar. Now give this some thought. Which do you think would better promote or demote Ayn's book, Rachel's review above or mine below?

    "The sex in Ayn's writing of Atlas Shrugged was outstanding, subdued and realistic, yet imaginative, but still outstanding. And to imagine that she wrote it in the 1950's. I can still imagine in my mind some of the spicy scenes. Very hot and stimulating."

    This is a fact of life as we know it today, sex works. I would think there would be a lot more of the other side reading Atlas Shrugged from my review as opposed to Rachel Maddow's. This thought was triggered by my previous post idea of misrepresentation and/or just plain outright lying to promote your beliefs and just plain prejudices. Do whatever it takes to get the votes, just find the right key, one that won't come back to haunt you. Each reader can then determine on their own which side of the equation, which characters, they associate with.

    Honestly, I actually did think that Dagny was hot and very sexy and I read AS the first time in about 1960 or so. I read it because my parents were so Republican. My last reading was just a couple years ago. I also remember a book, "Peyton Place" from the mid 50's, it was huge, 60,000 copies in fist ten days and remained on best seller list for 59 week, and you could get it in a plain brown wrapper.

    The Republican Party, the Tea Party, or any opposition to what we are experiencing today needs to learn from these examples that there are specific keys to making the other side get interested in learning more about their opposition. And this needs be done, "unwittingly" (another lie) of course.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years ago
    2nd comment & specific Thanks, KH: the people who give us competent personal service, whether in the hospital or at Arby's drive-through, are often Pat Logans. I confuse people by tipping restaurant wait staff heavily and thanking the folks at the hardware store profusely -- but it's the Pat Logan effect: they, like the nurse at my doctor's office the other day, make life possible. I told the RN, "If it weren't for nurses, we'd all be dead." No joke!
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
    The likes of Rachel Maddow only see the world in their jaded perspective. The wealthy are evil and could only have become wealthy from the exploitation of others. The poor are poor only because they are exploited and but for the "rigging of the system" they would be just as successful as others. Thus, it is the objective of the state to right this inequity by taking from the rich, who gained it immorally, and giving it to the poor, who have had it withheld from them through immoral action. All the while keeping a little bit for themselves because they are doing "good works."
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      can you give me an example of someone you admired for their concentration and pride in their work even though their job may be lower on the corporate ladder?
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
        Just off the top of my head - everytime that I find a handicapped individual - be it Down's, missing limb, sight impaired, hearing impaired, etc., I am encouraged in what they are achieving despite their challenge.

        I have had numerous individuals that have worked for me when I was a manager. Previous managers had pushed some of them to take on more responsibility, or greater span of control. That's not what they wanted. After discussing their objectives, I was happy to support them in being the best - draftsman, mechanic, graphic technical writer, etc. - that they could be and not push them beyond what they wanted to be. We needed good and competent people in those skills, and I was grateful that they were good and competent, and not unhappy or looking for another job because they felt they weren't appreciated for the contributions that they made.
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        • Posted by WBD 10 years ago
          Robbie, you said it exactly. I am THAT draftsman. If I were to take a higher position, I would have to become a people manager and I don't like managing people. I like what I do and I do it well. I don't get bored because the technology is constantly changing and people always want new and better functionality from the digital graphics. I've worked there for 30 years.

          Atlas has a special meaning for me due to the fact that I work for a large corporation that is run by the granddaughter of the founder. I think of her as our own "Miss Taggart". Fortunately, there is no "James Taggart" in the organization.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
        I'd like to claim a piece of that pie, if I may. As a potter, I'm far from high on the corp. ladder (unless you consider being self employed as being on the corp ladder). There's just something about working in mud that keeps you humble. lol
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        • Posted by 10 years ago
          ok, the humble part I'm not buying because it keeps you in the dark. Even if I truly appreciated your art-and I've seen pictures and I do-do you see how you are different from Pat Logan? I'll ask you the same question. If you had Dagny's ear, and you were present in her appreciation of Logan's talents, would you only be acknowledging of that? hmmm, if you had Dagny or Rearden's ear...
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          • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
            If I had their ear I'd be trying to sell them pottery. LOL

            Perhaps by saying "humble" I am meaning a different thing. Pat Logan was confident of his abilities to drive the train. As such, I'm certainly not humble of my abilities to make pottery. I KNOW that I make expertly hand crafted pottery, one piece at a time, in just the manner that potters have made pottery for centuries. However, I think that some might come into my studio and see my methods of production and chastise me for not using modern techniques. In that respect I would respectfully explain the differences, knowing that I'm not working in the most cost efficient method and humbly accept that they may not understand why I work as I do. It is simply that sometimes the value of the work can exceed the payment that can be asked. This is a very anti-objectivist thing to say, but as long as I can make pottery I will, knowing that few would ever pay the true value. To those who will, I gratefully accept their money. To those who can't pay that much, I'll accept what payment I can charge.

            Take the most popular item I sell - a mug. It costs $10 to make a mug, materials, firing cost, equipment, building and then I spend $4-$5 selling that mug. In order to cover the costs, replace equipment, pay for insurance and a bit for my time, I need to get $25 for that mug. In some markets I can, but not here where I live and work. Most of the time I actually get $18-$20 and if I wholesale the mug, I'll get $12.

            Every potter you see in a art show who makes what are called "functional pieces" works with these dynamics. In todays marketplace we don't compete with each other, we compete with China and people's "perceived value" of our work which is based on the price of mass produced work from China.

            Yes, working in mud, even the finest work makes one humble. It really brings you down to earth. As one well known potter put it, when you have mud, you make mudpies, but in the end it's still mud. LOL
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            • Posted by jimjamesjames 10 years ago
              I believe it was Henri Poincare who said, "It is not the purpose of work to earn your next meal. It is the purpose of work to keep from being bored between meals" Some do pottery, some run corporations, both are equal in my one good eye if their time is spent productively and honestly.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years ago
    The Maddow quote is so far from AS I don't feel the need to explain why. Everyone here knows why Maddow is wrong in that quote.

    I would also add we don't know if Pat Logan was a productive genius. Maybe he liked something obscure, like fixing up old trains for the fun of it. It wasn't trying to get rich or anything, but people in the world of fixing up old trains for hobby purposes recognized him as an undisputed leader at it. So he was living his dreams and making train hobbyist happy. Maybe, like the architect in Fountainhead, some young man was feeling like turning to suicide or drug addiction, but found an outlet learning about trains from Logan. If all that stuff I made up were true, then Logan could be living the dream of AS every bit as much as a Rearden or Galt. The book never says your dream has to be to run a for-profit enterprise.
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  • Posted by Notperfect 10 years ago
    I know 2 gentlemen who come to mind. I know not if they have visited the sight although I have invited them both. I have listened and learned from them both that not only do you have to find that edge that will propel themselves to the next level in their conquests, but they also have their peripheral vision on incoming attacks by those who want to keep them at bay. You may not know them, but there are a few still left.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years ago
    "This is, to put it bluntly, a totally inaccurate description of Atlas Shrugged and of Rand’s view." At best, incomplete. As others have pointed out here: not all who are rich, came by their riches honestly, either in the novel or in the life we know. And not all of modest means desire to "take" rather than trade.
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  • Posted by NealS 10 years ago
    The real issue is that Rachel Maddow viewers don't need to think for themselves. Why should they, they've got Rachel Maddow and Chris Mathews, and others like them, to do it for them?

    Rachel Maddow, like most others of her political persuasion don't have actually read a novel or anything else to criticize and demean it because they are not responsible for lying or misrepresenting anything they say. Nancy Pelosi taught us all that, teaching us we can pass laws without actually reading them.

    What hurts me is when someone I thought to be an intelligent person makes completely false statements, anything to promote their personal prejudices, and sticks to it no matter what facts face them. But then again, this is what they learned to do.

    I guess if our President can lie, and I assume he does it because he knows a certain part of the population will believe anything he says true or not. Those that don't believe him, he could care less about, just call them racists. It's like the increase in oral sex among children after Bill Clinton's "didn't have sexual relations with that woman" was exposed. The children learned from what they saw and heard, that it's okay to tell lies, as nothing will happen, and it's okay to have oral sex with acquaintances (classmates). So they experimented with it.

    What can the opposition do to equal the lying tactics? Obviously telling lies will backfire or just result in being called a racist. We do however, need to find a key in persuading people to look at and think about the facts.

    Rachel M. like Jane F. (from Viet Nam era) I personally consider treasonous. What they are doing or did, is not good for the country? The problem, there will be no real consequences.
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years ago
    rm is an idiot. why anyone would listen to her is beyond me. why anyone would give her audience here is out of line.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      I think you have missed the point of the article, Did you read it? which was written by someone at the Ayn Rand Institute. RM's comments are not unlike many comments you hear from people who have not read AS. I think the point of the article was to point out Rand's story was not one dimensional and my point in posting the article HERE was to have a discussion about people you have met or worked with that remind you of Pat Logan, the train engineer, Dagny respected.
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