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Rand Paul Drops Out

Posted by $ ObjectiveAnalyst 5 years, 10 months ago to Politics
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Potentially the best offering from the GOP has suspended his campaign... The writing was on the wall. He wasn't going to get the nomination. The support was not there in numbers large enough to force the establishment in Washington, or in the MSM to sit up and notice. Without that he appeared as a wall flower. For may Objectivists determined to stand on principle, the third party candidate Gary Johnson looks even more attractive. No?
SOURCE URL: http://www.aol.com/article/2016/02/03/cnn-republican-presidential-candidate-rand-paul-suspends-his-ca/21307137/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D1924690195_htmlws-sb-bb


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  • 11
    Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
    Gary Johnson stands no chance. So it would be a protest vote. I am not against those. But if Cruz wins the nomination, I will back him. I'm not sure about Rubio. The gang og 8 thing doesn't bug me as much as others. Can anyone share info on his est. votes? what I hope Rand Paul takes away from this experience is that playing on the team got him NOWHERE. he needs to stop taking one for the team. he needs to be a rebel with a cause.
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    • 11
      Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 10 months ago
      Don't worry, kh, if Cruz is worthy of your vote, he won't be selected by the GOP to run.
      I agree with you that Rand needs to learn from the experience exactly as you say. He hasn't proven he has his father's grit yet though.
      If people keep supporting the GOP against their ethical reasoning no third party will even have a chance. Gary Johnson deserves your support; none of the others do. He is the rebel with a cause you say is needed.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 10 months ago
      Yes. A well reasoned assessment and position. It is most unfortunate that Ayn had to vote for less than optimal options. Little has changed in that regard for us and what has changed is mostly for the worse...
      About Cruz: He does exhibit reverence for the Constitution, small government and a disdain for the establishment elites... We may have the chance to find whether it is authentic or just political theater if the insiders don't destroy his chances... Trump is now making noise about the Iowa results and threatening a lawsuit or challenge. http://www.aol.com/article/2016/02/03... Strange how quickly the worm turns... I'm glad Trump is in the race just to shake things up, but I am still waiting for his "jump the shark moment." what a wild ride...
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      • Posted by khalling 5 years, 10 months ago
        some of his complaints are not valid. I did think the "give you an F for participation" mailers was over the top. On the Carson thing. I don't buy it. I'm from Iowa, and here's how the caucus goes. You show up and they are very clear who you can vote for before they take a show of hands. There is a door monitor, and so-people cannot leave until a final count has been established based on everyone in the room. There are local election officials roaming at each precinct. Frankly, I am stunned by the C-Span footage showing voter fraud going on in W Des Moines at the democrat caucus. But no republican showing up to vote would have been confused that Carson had suspended his campaign.
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        • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
          Hello K,
          I knew you would have some good insight... being an Iowa Gal... :)
          I completely agree about the suspension too. Who changes their vote on such a matter without hearing it from the candidate? This speaks volumes about the opinion of the electorate held by purveyors of such nonsense. Everybody knows politics is a dirty game. People who are steadfastly honorable seem to be at a disadvantage.
          Regards,
          O.A.
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago
        Cruz can't beat Hillary.
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        • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
          Hello Abaco,
          This election has been so full of surprises I wouldn't venture a prediction on the general election right now. But I believe he could beat her like a rug in a debate. The problem is that they are so far apart that the supporters of each will not care or be swayed. So many are mere Lemmings. The right absolutely hates Clinton and Sanders and the left is apoplectic over Cruz.

          Listening to some of the news feeds one would think she might need to fear the FBI more.
          I think the Clinton machine is so big and powerful that the odds of her actually being prosecuted are
          not good. I hope I am wrong, but it is so seldom we see anyone whose name we recognize from government actually held responsible. Some underling will be thrown under the bus first...
          Respectfully,
          O.A.
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          • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago
            Hey, I hear ya. I have been placing bets with people for a couple years now that she's next in line. I base it on my take regarding the hidden...shall we say fraternal, organizations that appears to support her back then.
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    • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
      I'm hoping Rand will keep being Rand, and I hope that he'll swing more libertarian as the years pass. If he were nominated I'd vote for him with a clear conscience even though he's not libertarian enough. I couldn't vote for Cruz with a clear conscience. To my knowledge he favors good economic policies but, to turn their own phrase against them, "they" have to stop forcing their beliefs on me!

      A few election cycles ago I decided that I couldn't vote for the lesser of two evils any more and I couldn't vote for someone unless I actually wanted them to win. If Gary Johnson makes it on the ballot in CT I'll vote for him. It's true he stands no chance but it's anything but a protest vote. The only wasted vote is one cast for a candidate that you don't actually want to see in office on his own merits.

      I like to imagine a future where we have instant runoff voting, where everyone marks their first, second, and third choices. I think that would make people feel secure enough that they'd vote their real first choice and then the lesser of two evils as their second choice. People might get a wake-up call when Johnson pulled huge numbers. Maybe not win, but numbers big enough to frighten the pants off our current rulers.
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    • Posted by edweaver 5 years, 10 months ago
      Rand was my choice until he supported Mitch for re-election. He lost me there. I possibly would vote for him in the future if as you say he learns something and proves it. But he has an uphill battle to prove it now.

      Personally I support Cruz and feel I could vote Rubio if he was the choice. Below is a link from Heritage that shows Rubio's position & votes that may help. For me if not one of those 2, I may swallow hard and vote trump if I had to simply to find out if I were right or wrong about him.

      http://www.heritageactionscorecard.co...
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      • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
        Rand Paul is far from perfect but he's at least an order of magnitude better than the other choices. I feel your pain regarding the McConnell support.
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        • Posted by edweaver 5 years, 9 months ago
          For me it was not so much pain as it was I feeling he was becoming entrenched in the political process. Once a politician starts playing politics he or she is has lost me. One of my biggest complains has been people saying one thing and doing the opposite once elected. Had Paul not done that I would have supported him over Cruz. But it would have been close.

          If you have not read Cruz's book, I strongly suggest it. If my memory is correct, one of the things I've read is you don't like him because of his religion. His religion does not bother me because I truly believe he will stand for the Constitution and it allows people to choose for themselves religion or non at all.
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    • Posted by mdk2608 5 years, 9 months ago
      Besides the gang of 8 thing I am curious if anyone knows anything that Rubio has accomplished in the Senate. I can't think of anything. Yes I like his speaking skills but I have a problem with first term senators with no record of accomplishment and who can speak well. That issue is always on my mind when I am tempted to support Rubio.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 9 months ago
      khaling, I'm pretty much where you are at.
      I decided to back Cruz several days ago.
      Gary Johnson? He's an open option that depends on what may happen.
      But keep in mind I'm old enough to recall how votes diverted for Ross Perot helped the first Candidate Clinton sleaze his way into the Oral Office.
      No,I didn't misspell a certain word.
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      • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
        "votes diverted for Ross Perot"

        I was on the state central committee of the LP of Connecticut for quite a few years. Nothing made us happier than to be spoilers. We had a candidate or two in close races come to us asking our candidate to back out. We were steadfast in our reply, "If you run on a libertarian platform we won't need to run against you. If not, we're more than happy to spoil the race."
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      Cruz is a religious zealot. If he gets the nomination of Repubs, I hope Trump runs as an independent and Sanders wins and gets it all over with quickly (which he will certainly do with his giveaway programs).
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago
        Haha! ...gets it all over with quickly. Best thing I've read today. Let's just get it over with, yeah! "Bring it all down, man!" as a buddy of mine likes to say.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
          Lets get on with rebuilding the usa as a free capitalist country
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 9 months ago
            Too soon. The US hasn't totally collapsed yet. The looters are alive and well. I saw them debating on TV briefly about how they were going to outduel each other to give our money away.
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
              I agree that the final collapse is being masked by the massive national debt that people are just ignoring. But I think according to the national debt clock, the debt is greater than the total wealth in the co nutty. That means we are underwater, as they say. The "old money" that people are living in is just phantom money that other people are being forced to accept as something of value. It's a house of cards which collapse of its own weight but propped up by federal reserve money printing and blind trust
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      • Posted by khalling 5 years, 9 months ago
        term-what is Trump?
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
          Trump is the guy who says it like it is. None of the others really do that. We need for political correctness to go away. For whatever reason, he just isnt politically correct. Trump and Sanders both tell it like it is, but Sanders is a real wacko in terms of socialism
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          • Posted by khalling 5 years, 9 months ago
            Trump says NOTHING. he taps into your emotions. NO plan, NO respect for property rights (except his), NOT for free trade, said in 1998, I could run as a republican. they are stupid. they'd believe anything I said, I could win them over. The list is long and you are mesmerized by that shiny bauble of a BIG FENCE
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
              I doubt he could get anything through, except possibly repeal of obamacare if congress went along with him. Otherwise, I would be happy if he told us when the emperor had no clothes, said things as they are, and used the veto to keep socialist things from getting passed. No one else is going to do those things.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 5 years, 10 months ago
    In Lord of the Rings, Treebeard states what is the essence of politics: “Side? I am on nobody's side, because nobody is on my side, little orc.”

    No two people have exactly the same opinions an all matters, although some are quite close. Everyone here has a vastly more objectivist point of view than the people on Daily Kos, but we nevertheless disagree.

    In a voting situation you have to find enough people who share views with you that you can form a majority. Unfortunately the larger the group the less they will all share your views. You wind up voting for someone who only shares some of your views because they share more of them than the other candidate who might make a majority.

    If your views are only shared by a small percentage of the population, then this can be unfortunate. The solution is to promote your views so that the number of people who share them increases.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      This is the problem with mob rule in a democracy. Its a bad form of government, as it quickly degenerates to the lowest common denominator or worthless people wanting free stuff from the government to be paid for by the others NOT in their tribe.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 9 months ago
    Cruz is running to be Pastor-in-Chief and the dirty tricks he played in Iowa, bear out that being the born-again Christian he claims, and the son of a pastor, is ample proof he cannot be trusted. Voting for the lesser of two great evils to be your master does not strike me well. Plus, under the electoral system my vote won’t mean much anyhow, but voting for whomever the Libertarian Party runs will at least tell the establishment there is opposition to their war-loving and statist building.
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    • Posted by khalling 5 years, 9 months ago
      I think the mailers targeting individuals for voting record was sleazy. welcome to politics. they wanted turn-out. I'm from Iowa-the Carson thing is ridiculous. think of it this way. CNN broadcasts this 15 minutes before vote time. are you watching TV 15 minutes before you are in the room to vote? They close the door, you hear the list of candidates before you raise your hand. little damage could be done-and frankly, it is reasonable information, and NOT the first time Carson's team fumbled on their strategy. look at articles back in Oct. BE IN IOWA ON CAUCUS NIGHT. or assume Iowa is not important. your choice.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 9 months ago
        I read the CNN tweets (which did not say what Cruz says they said) and the Cruz Tweet. I saw Carson interviewed where he said the campaigns all have a direct line to each other and to verify what they misinterpreted would have taken two seconds. I saw the Cruz campaign manager interviewed regarding this and he would not admit any guilt --- claiming it was all Trump (fallacy of diversion). In shsort, Trump is right: Cruz is a liar.
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 5 years, 9 months ago
    My main guy was Scott Walker, and he dropped out first. Now my guy is Cruz, and I donated to his campaign before the Iowa caucuses. Rubio so far has not said anything I disagree with, but he had that episode with the Gang of 8 on immigration reform. I think he learned from it, but wonder if he would be manipulated by the Rep Establishment once in office. I like the things Carly Fiorina has said, and she had a really good quote in the last debate "People need to understand that the President doesn't run the economy, the people do." Too bad she hasn't gotten higher in the polls.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      The candidate who offers the most goodies seems to win- those goodies need to be paid for by enough politically-weak people (sheep). Cruz is a religious zealot who seems to pander to the evangelicals. As to the actual things he would do as president, I suspect he is basically part of the system as a senator and will continue on whats been done in the past. The only one who is a disrupting force for the establishment is TRUMP. We need someone like that who will stand up and tell us all how the stupid programs that have been put into place just dont work. No one else is going to be politically incorrect and say those things.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
    The old guard Republicans hate Cruz which is, in my eyes, an endorsement. Cruz's resume is outstanding, and his devotion to the Constitution has so far been explicit. With the exception of his mysticism, he is likely the best of the clown posse. Rubio, who is surging, was also disliked by the old guard, but since their boy Jeb looks like he's a wash out, they are starting to embrace Rubio. One thing I can say about Rubio is that he can beat Clinton and anyone else the Democrats put up, in a walk.
    Too bad about Rand Paul. His biggest problem is that his demeanor is that of a high school teacher in a class full of slackers. Too bad, but appearance is important when dealing with the majority huddled in the shallow end of the pool.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      Hello Herb7734,
      "The enemy of my enemy..." Yes, Cruz has that going for him.
      So hard to judge one by their accomplishments yet to occur... :D
      As for what he has done so far... Well, he has made a lot of the right enemies. His mysticism is probably as impotent legislatively as any modern POTUS... Assessing potential threat level of the candidates is what it has come down too...

      The contest is a popularity/beauty contest and Circus Maximus... this too is what it has become.
      As individuals we must make our own way as best as we can and provide example. For those that wish to take the path of destruction.... just don't let them take you with them.
      Regards,
      O.A.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      Rubio sounds good in his speeches, but I dont really trust him. He panders too much. He is also as much of a religious zealot at Cruz. Who knows what their "gods" would tell them to do when they had the pen. Trump is the only one who is sufficiently politically correct to actually stand up for us citizens and run the country more like a business.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
        The thing I don't like about Trump is the way he attacks with the slightest provocation. That kind of narcissism is dangerous. It shows a refusal to admit it when he's wrong. He says he's a negotiator, but with that attitude, I don't think he'll get too far with congress. Also, to date, he hasn't shown how he plans to implement his grandiose plans.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
          If Trump just told us when the emperor has no clothes, and vetoed every socialist proposal that gets placed before him, I would be happy for 4 years
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          • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
            As usual you can expect another GOP betrayal to that dream.
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
              I will be dead and buried before an Objectivist gets elected in the USA as president. UNfortunately.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                Wasting your vote on the GOP won't help.
                (I know we both want more liberty and less govt, term2;^)
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                • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
                  This election is a bit like voting for which of the five families will rule an all powerful mafia structure. I think that realization is sparking popular interest in a candidate not part of the establishment- a least bad choice. I think statism will be brought down by exposing its lack of practical performance. Accountability has not been demanded of our current government. It needs to be, and that's what I am looking for a trump to do. If that's all he does, I think it's worth a ,4 year term if it opens the eyes of our electorate
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                • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
                  It's not a waste if it keeps Clinton or Sanders out.
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                  • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                    Yes, it is, because it supports a bigger evil state. If the GOP supports a candidate the candidate is guaranteed to be for a bigger more powerful government. The candidate selection process is rigged. You get nothing but betrayal from the GOP. The state grows just as fast regardless of which party sits in the oval office. the past 30 years proves the point.
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                    • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
                      So, your position is to say a plague on both your houses, and to opt out. As for me, I'm not quite to the same place as you are. I still see a glimmer of the true spirit of America, and like a dying ember I'm trying to help fan it back into a flame. Maybe it's a lost cause, but I'm a stubborn old geezer.
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                      • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                        Not to opt out. To vote with integrity and principle. The statists don't deserve any support, they deserve to be voted out. The only way that will ever happen is if we vote against them en masse. That may not happen this year, but it can't happen ever unless we vote based on principle. Johnson is worth voting for this year. I bet there will be other libertarians that are worthy of your vote in your location, too. They don't have all the right answers but they do have the basics that the GOP and Dems do not: individual liberty and free markets.
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                        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
                          How about telling me all about Johnson in 50 words or less. I have no Objectivist viewpoints on him.(Just kidding -- about the 50 words.)
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                          • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                            Rather than sending you to the campaign site, here is a site that accumulates quotes on issues of the candidates:
                            http://www.ontheissues.org/Gary_Johns...
                            That site has a rating system that proably does not represent your thinking, so keep your eyes open for bias from the site.
                            There is also a wiki page for Johnson's political positions:
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...
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                            • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
                              Thanks.
                              Interesting guy. Like most Libertarians, he's weak on foreign policy. A few other disagreements, but by and large acceptable.
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                              • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                                Would you elaborate on "weak on foreign policy", please, Herb? I hear that phrase frequently but it isn't very enlightening, (in fact from most talking heads imo it's a deliberate smear without factual support. I know that isn't your intent obviously) Do you mean 'not well informed' or 'less likely to respond with force in a confrontation', or something else?
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                                • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
                                  He's isolationist. Most Libertarians are. That was OK 50 years ago, but when a country like N. Korea has nuclear weapons, and ICBMs you can't afford to say we'll stay out of it unless we are directly involved. Direct involvement can often mean the death of thousand or more.
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                                  • freedomforall replied 5 years, 9 months ago
  • Posted by dbhalling 5 years, 9 months ago
    Hi OA,

    It is sad. Unfortunately, he ran a very poor disorganized campaign. He needed a unifying theme and one issue to drum on and instead he was all over the map.
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    • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 9 months ago
      he hit the NSA note hard, but it didn't "ring" too well
      when the nation shifted to terrorist anxiety. -- j
      .
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      • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
        Hello johnpe1,
        Not to diminish the losses at the hands of terrorists, but which is actually more of a threat to the public liberty at large? Where are the priorities of people? of the media?
        Yeah, we are once again going to be stuck with someone not of our liking. Nowadays It feels lucky just to imagine having someone barely tolerable.
        Respectfully,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
          What kills more Americans ?:
          a) medical mistakes
          b) terrorists
          c) federal government
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          • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
            Hello freedomforall,
            We know. :) Of course there is no tolerable level of terrorism, and what can be done to curb it should be, but the statistics are what they are. Now, if you are one of the survivors of the dead, from say... 911 you probably aren't interested in the math... It is not logical, but it is all too human.
            It is clear elections involve too much emotion and too little analysis and reason.
            Regards,
            O.A.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
              "what can be done to curb it should be"
              No, can't agree. Liberty is too precious to sacrifice it.
              If I had lost someone in the 9-11 activities, then I would want to know the truth first. Those who hide the truth and use the circumstances to increase their own power and wealth, and to destroy liberty are despicable, and could very well be culpable for the lives lost on 9-11 and for hundreds of thousands more since 9-11.
              Elections definitely involve too little rational thought on the part of anyone who consents to more of the same.
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              • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
                Hello freedomforall,
                Did I suggest that Liberty need be sacrificed? That is not in "what can be done" meant in my mind. My error in clarity. Let me be clear. I mean what can be done without violating rights, or diminishing the liberty our Constitution is suppose to ensure. And, I include that which we have already lost.
                Regards,
                O.A.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
          "Yeah, we are once again going to be stuck with someone not of our liking. Nowadays It feels lucky just to imagine having someone barely tolerable."
          Yes. It's a shame.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      He isnt giving away goodies to the entitled masses. That was his problem in this culture.
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      • Posted by dbhalling 5 years, 9 months ago
        Yeah, but he also did not have a coherent message. At the end he tried to get the evangelicals, with his abortion play.

        His key issue should have been the NSA and the over reach of the regulatory state.
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        • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago
          I've come to believe that most Americans what that overreach, that denial of the 4th. They feel safer knowing they're being watched...in case they might decide to do something bad, you know.

          Me, I'm tired of it. Last summer my son and I were going into the local air show for the day. They had a bunch of tables where each attendee had to step up and open all their bags so an "official" could go into the air show. You know...the ole TSA-type of search. Just to go to an airshow. They don't allow bottled water, soda, anything like that. My little son looked up and asked (right in front of the guard going through our stuff), "Dad...why is he doing that?" I responded loud and clear, "That's because we're suspects, son." The guy abruptly ended his search early, smiled at me, and said, "Go on in. Have a great day." Haha... (Your comment reminded me...)
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
          Maybe accountability issues on the socialist policies- how they cost a lot in many hidden ways but in the end dont deliver. War on drugs, Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, War on terror, public schools. Its time to put the socialists' feet to the fire and investigate just how effective their programs are IN PRACTICE. Trump does a better job at pointing out those things, which is why I want to see 4 years of him in there.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 9 months ago
    If there were an election cycle in which a 3rd party candidate could win, this is it, but it won't happen. If we want a government run with Objectivist principles applied, we will have to start our own sovereign nation of Galt.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
      How about we vote on principle and simultaneously work on creating Ayn's Atlantis?
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 9 months ago
        I am not going to spend more time building Atlantis until a sufficient number of Gulchers would agree with me on an Atlantis immigration policy.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
          I just came back from visiting Jefferson's house and museum. One gets a good taste of how hard it would be to get enough consensus to actually start a country. I suspect if Jefferson came back to life now, he would look around and say something like "I was afraid this was going to happen..." I think he knew that the constitution had enough compromises in it that it wouldnt last that long.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 9 months ago
            I wish that I had known you were going, term2. If interested in a behind-the-scenes tour at Monticello, contact my former neighbor, Steve Geis, via
            https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-gei....
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            • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
              I go once a year there to get a medical checkup from a really good prostate cancer doctor. I have gone to the Jefferson museum twice now, and its really instructive. There are people there who are very knowledgeable and answered a lot of questions. Thank you for making the suggestion. Next year I will talk to him. I got an appreciation for the difficulties of starting a new country for sure. If I had to do it now, it would be a daunting task to somehow make sure whats happened now doesnt happen again. Even Jefferson was most afraid that the new country wouldnt stay the way he was setting it up for long. And it didnt.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 10 months ago
    By far, the only candidate I could relate to at all. Sad to see this because I think it represents that when you talk about liberty there's just no real interested audience anymore. It's all about how government will do this or that for you - from both parties.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 10 months ago
      Hello Abaco,
      Yes. This is the real tragedy. It is not the fools we elect, it is the fools that do the electing... there are too many that no longer value Liberty.
      We must change this. Talk to every young person you know about Liberty, especially the younger generations that must now be deprogrammed, thanks to our statist education system.

      "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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      • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
        There is a real attraction to socialism that I only partially understand. Perhaps its the idea of getting free stuff others have to pay for. Perhaps its the idea that "we are all in this together" thats so attractive.

        The problem with socialism is that it doesnt work in practice, no matter how attractive it appears to be. Look at Venezuela. The place is crashing by the day, but maduro is still alive and in charge (which amazes me). The ONLY thing that will turn the statists in this country around is seeing that the socialist ideas just arent practical- which means they must SEE the country crash before they will believe it. Until then, politics is a useless arena.
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        • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
          Hello term2,
          Some people must learn the hard way. Generally our public education system is ideologically sympathetic to Marxism, altruism, statism and collectivism. Thus, history contrary to these ideologies is scrubbed... slanted...

          “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”
          ― Edmund Burke
          Respecfully,
          O.A.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 5 years, 9 months ago
          The sad reality is that the vast majority of the population will put up with almost anything to get something for free.
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          • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
            The problem is that they dont get things for free when all is said and done. But accountability is absent when it comes to socialist proposals. I hope Trump, with his political incorrectness, can point these things out and help put an end to this madness. I do not that gulchers seem to hate Trump with almost the same ferocity that the statists love socialism. Gulchers should praise Trump's political incorrectness.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 5 years, 9 months ago
    Rand Paul made the mistake of diluting his message with broadsides on pet issues that greatly divided his support. If he had kept focus on restoring freedom and restraining the government to something approaching its legitimate role without being sidetracked into topics such as abortion or by broadsides against Planned Parenthood he would have done much better.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
      "If he had kept focus on restoring freedom and restraining the government"
      I feel like we're poised for a backlash. I thought there would be a backlash against President Obama. After years of politicians saying we need to terrified and let gov't borrow more money to fight evil-doers, people wanted "hope" and "change". Every weekend on the downtown Square there was a protest with puppets against the drone strikes, military occupations, and secret prisons. Immediately after the inauguration, we went straight to arguments of we need to be terrified and let the gov't borrow more money. The drone strikes and Guantanamo didn't go away. The borrowing got much worse. A hopeful person like me who wants change gets more frustrated. It seems like time for a libertarian backlash, but I don't see it materializing.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 5 years, 9 months ago
    Cruz may be too religious, except that I don't think
    he's making religion a platform in his campaign. I
    don't think there is much danger from him in that
    respect. But I do think there is a good chance he
    would bring in more freedom for free enterprise.
    Whereas Trump is definitely not a free-enter-
    prise man. Look at his remarks on eminent do-
    main, for instance.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      Hello LibertyBelle,
      It has been clear to me for years that a politician's social conservatism affects my life less severely than his lack of fiscal conservatism. Poor fiscal policy and economics destroys my livelihood, but they don't yet resources to keep me from doing anything I like in my life, so long as I don't do something stupid in public. I generally see that as virtue anyway. :)
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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  • Posted by mdk2608 5 years, 9 months ago
    When I look at the Presidential race there are many good candidates whose talents can really help the country. In a discussion with a friend after Rand dropped out we through out the idea that Rand might be a good pick should there be a Supreme Court vacancy. Does anyone else feel the same way?
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    • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
      Yes, except Rand Paul isn't eligible for the Supreme Court because he's not a lawyer.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 5 years, 9 months ago
        The Constitution doesn't require he be one, though it may make approval by Congress easier.

        Bush nominated Harriet Myers, and I don't think she was ever a lawyer.
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        • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
          I could be wrong. There's a first time for everything!
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          • Posted by khalling 5 years, 9 months ago
            timelord, you do not have to be a lawyer to serve on the Supreme Court. Would there be more scientists nominated arrrggghhh! :)
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            • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
              Somebody mark my error down on the Gulch Calendar of Remarkable Events (aka GCRE)! If that were an answer on a Common Core exam I'd get points for saying it with confidence and being able to explain why I thought so. At least my spelling, punctuation and grammar were correct... There's a silver lining in there somewhere, dammit, and I'm gonna find it!

              I'm glad that's not a requirement. The only test should be your ability to read it out loud and explain what it means. That and swear on your life that it's not a "living document" outside of being lawfully amended.
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              • Posted by khalling 5 years, 9 months ago
                LOL. It has been a LONG time since a lawyer was NOT on the Supreme Court. and likely not in the near future. BUt should be considered. I am so tired of their utter stupidity when it comes to science and technology. shameful really
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
        There are only two requirements. Nominated by a President and Confirmed by the Senate. A 12 year old Martian would qualify. As for qualified as an attorney that is exactly the kind that should be excluded....vested interest and I see little evidence of briliance over BS. Not being an attorney should be the one and only requirement.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 5 years, 9 months ago
    My first impression of Rand Paul was negative and I find that first impressions are awfully valuable. The same goes with Christy, Kasich and some others...they will never get my vote.

    Cruz admits that he has few, if any, U.S. Senators backing him. That is a sign that he's unpopular with the Washington Lobby (same as Sarah Palin). That should count for something.

    As far as his outspoken religious view go...I would definitely prefer him over an atheist.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      Hello Radio_Randy,
      First impressions are often right and powerful, but one must make exceptions, no? Would you judge AS by its cover? :)
      I would wish to gauge the level of zealotry, either religious or atheistic. I have a personal preference, but our nation is already divided enough. I feel we would fare best if it was not overt and dominating in the thoughts and governance of whoever is in consideration.
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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      • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 5 years, 9 months ago
        If Atlas Shrugged were published by Harlequin...I probably WOULD have judged it by it's cover and never read it.
        Hey...Donald and Harlequin...I can just picture him with a silly hat.
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  • Posted by saucerdesigner 5 years, 9 months ago
    I'm in agreement with those who feel that his endorsement of Mitt Romney did him in. If that wasn't bad enough, he pledges support for Israel. That does it for me.

    Besides, here's the litmus test:
    "...therefore, here is what you must know. Given that the official story is patently absurd, anyone, I mean anyone who promotes the official story, who accepts the official story, who oppresses those who doubt the official story, who does not question the official story, is involved or too stupid to pat their head and chew gum at the same time. Any presidential candidate who does not dispute the official story is a traitor to their nation and a tool of those who accomplished this attack. It all comes down to 911. Everything that has happened has happened based on a lie. Everyone in government, in the media, in entertainment, in organized religion, in the public eye, and the public who accept and promote the official story is either a traitor or a tool. Everyone who does not stand forth and speak the truth to power is a coward, a liar and complicit in mass murder. Everyone, everywhere can be measured according to this litmus test." ~ Les Visible & The Heretic - 911 is the Litmus Test

    https://youtu.be/p6O4LE0eTYc
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 years, 9 months ago
    At this point, the choice becomes moot: vote against whomever is selected for the Democrat candidate. The Republican candidate will obviously be the only choice that can garner enough votes to deny socialist candidates the office, so like them or not, any Republican gets my vote.
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    • Posted by $ Suzanne43 5 years, 9 months ago
      Yes, that's the way it has to be. We must keep in mind that a Democrat president would get to appoint liberals and socialists to the Supreme Court. That would be a disaster that I'm afraid our country would never recover from.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
        You play the game under the rules of the statists and you lose every single time. How many times has the supreme court voted in favor of individual liberty and free markets in the past 30 years? How many times have those looters in black robes voted for expanding the state and destruction of your liberty? The GOP hasn't done a thing to protect your rights, yet you still give them your wasted vote.

        You and your GOP brothers and sisters are responsible for the downfall of liberty in America because you haven't the courage to stand up for your principles. But that is the legacy of the GOP. They offer temporary safety, and you take it over liberty every time.
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        • Posted by $ Suzanne43 5 years, 9 months ago
          Quite a rant. Telling me that I am responsible for the downfall of liberty in America is way over the top. I left the GOP years ago. But I will never vote for a Democrat.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
            Clearly you won't vote for a Democrat. That's why my "rant" didn't mention that branch of the statist party.
            You are making the same mistake repeatedly, the mistake that GOP propaganda wants you to make. It isn't rational to make a choice between two evils when there is a third choice that is not evil. Don't waste your vote
            You play the game under the rules of the statists and you lose every single time.
            Vote on principle, not on fear instilled by GOP propaganda.
            Rational people must take a stand against the state, no matter how unlikely victory seems at present. Clearly most Democrat voters will not choose liberty. Republican voters are the block of voters who have the opportunity to make the difference between statist dictatorship and liberty.
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            • Posted by $ Suzanne43 5 years, 9 months ago
              I need to tell you a story about why I am so hesitant to vote for a third party candidate. A very long time ago, my husband was an elector for a very conservative candidate in a federal presidential election. Because of the polling, it was thought that the candidate had a chance to win our state. We worked tirelessly and donated money to his election. So many of our Republican friends asked us not to give our support to a third party candidate because it was a wasted vote, but we stood on principle and continued to support him. Finally, the election came; he got about three percent of the vote in our state. His three percent almost led to a Democrat win. Both my husband and I said that we would never again back a third party. Right now, our son is working hard for a young man who is running for representative as a Republican. He seems to be sincere in his belief of limited government and big spending, etc. Perhaps that is the best way to go...one person and one election at a time. It's going to take awhile, but I think that it can be done because so many people are angry with.the establishment.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                Your experience and action proves my point.
                "He seems to be sincere in his belief of limited government and big spending, etc. "
                Of course he is. If he is new to the game he may even mean it, but he will learn that the GOP will not give him any responsibility until he becomes a statist. When he does he will get power and the game goes on.
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                • Posted by $ Suzanne43 5 years, 9 months ago
                  Yes, that might happen. But don't be naive enough to think that a third party candidate won't contact "Potomac Fever." either.
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                  • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
                    Again you make excuses for doing the irrational thing. GOP and Dems have both PROVEN repeatedly that they will betray their vows and destroy liberty. You use that as an excuse for voting FOR them?

                    Competition is the reason that markets work.
                    If you believe in free markets and liberty you must rationally vote for the third party.
                    You wnat to vote for the GOP because they have frightened you. Fear is the tool that the statists use consistenly to keep and increase their power.
                    Fool you once shame on them. Fool you repeatedly, shame on you.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
      and barring a reformation as born again somethings the only Repos running are the socialist supporting kind. Do you think Cruz has it within him self the guts to bolt the party or if elected kick out the Rinos's.?

      Not too much in the way of heroics in that party given how they joined in kicking the constitution to shreds.

      No one else allowed in....closed shop union style list of candidates and delegates. Find and some weakness it' disappears. Let us not forget it is the support of the left who are already the source of the down fall of liberty. Isn't it wonderful they give you two ways to waste your vote and blame you for being a flusher.

      95% of all votes cast will accrue to left wing fascist socialists no matter which party ha ha wins.

      And no one willing in crease a ten or even a one and bet the other way.

      Judging by this group the left will have little problem winning. Arf Arf Barf is not an acceptable solution.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Depends on what your defense options are, Herb. I don't pretend to know all the current capabilities and technology of the US military, but I'd bet my life that N Korea has near zero chance of attacking the US successfully. Who else are you afraid of that requires hundreds of thousands of US troops stationed outside the US?
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    • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
      Beside N. Korea? Lessee:
      Russia, China, Iran,
      ISIS, al Qeada, HAMAS
      Also, many up and coming Middle East troubles such as Syria, Iraq.
      Then there's the infiltration problem that IS involving us from the border with Mexico coming up from Central and South America.
      As to N. Korea, it is being ruled by a nutcase that can involve us if he bombs S. Korea, Israel, etc. With all due respect, and I mean it because I do read your posts, that's a rather stupid question, is it not?.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
        How many of that list would not be on the list if the fedgov didn't meddle, rattle sabres, and build empire?
        The nutcase neocons are much more worrisome to me. Donald Trump with the power of the US presidency is much more frightening than Kim the Ill.
        I do understand your point of view, but I think that Johnson does, too. The military industrial complex has a firm grip on their fate. Cui Bono.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
          Regardless of who or what led to the current situation, which I admit sucks and has been caused in part by our crappy foreign policy, but, when someone sincerely says they want to kill me, I take them at their word and take steps to prevent it from happening. After I feel secure, then I can take further steps to remedy the causes and if that means withdrawal or isolation, so be it.
          Our inept foreign policy is just one of the idiocies Washington has perpetuated. Everything from the economy to lawmaking, to restriction rules, etc.etc. has gotten even some of the sleeping voters to wake up. Of course those newly awakened voters look favorably at Trump as their savior, not realizing that he will be, in the long run, the worst possible choice.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
          "The military industrial complex has a firm grip on their fate. "
          I agree. The Founders of the US were afraid the military would indirectly influence politics and imagined a minimal standing army with armed citizens protecting the country. This approach would still work today.
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
    Fighting in the political arena at this stage in our culture is really useless in my opinion. So many of the citizens are socialists or just want freebies paid for by others that a real freedom-loving candidate will NOT be elected, let alone even nominated. All we could expect is a president who will slow down the process of socialization of the country.

    I say thats Trump. If Trump isnt nominated, I think its likely Sanders will get elected in the fall. Religious zealots Cruz and Rubio are cut from the same cloth as Hillary and Sanders when it comes to actual running of the country- so the one who gives away the most will garner the most votes.
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  • -4
    Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 10 months ago
    I was sad to hear Paul dropped out. I still think a pro-liberty backlash could come in the near future, but it's sadly not happening now.

    If they had instant runnoff voting, I would vote libertarian. If Clinton gets the nomination, I will support her simply to keep a non-Paul Republican from becoming president. If Sanders gets it, I don't know. I think I would try to ignore the whole thing and metaphorically "move to Canada".

    For a while I thought if Sanders got it maybe Bloomberg would run, but the country isn't ready for a 5'7" neo-liberal electrical engineer / tech startup founder. :)
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    • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
      Eight years of disaster and you still haven't learned, CG.
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      • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
        We have to learn what the attraction to socialism is based on, and attack it there. Otherwise, people just ignore what we are saying and proceed on with socialism. Look at Venezuela- even whats happening there doesnt seem to convince people that socialism is bankrupt. People here need to see whats in store for them under a socialist collapse.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
        Does your memory only go back eight years? The other party is the Republicans, and they don't even pretend to support liberty. Maybe that's better because when they're in office, we have protests. We let Democrats get away with the same things.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 5 years, 9 months ago
          No, my memory is a lot longer than that. I remember W Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Bill Clinton. All great examples of statist looters that Hillary Clinton not only wants to emulate but to surpass in statist, liberty-crushing glory. Is Trump a bad choice? Yes, he is horrid. Almost as bad a choice as Hillary.
          Almost as bad a choice as Obama was in 2008.
          By 2012 Obama had proven to be even worse, but a lot of irrational people fell for his con a second time and the results speak for themselves. Such irrational people don't learn from their own mistakes or from the observation of socialist policy disasters.
          If such people really believed in liberty they wouldn't even consider wasting their votes on statists like Clinton, or Sanders, or Trump, or anyone else that the GOP selects as their puppet candidate. If they wanted liberty they would vote based on that principle instead of wasting their votes on the supposed lesser evil. No third party will ever have a chance if good men of principle continue to vote for evil.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
      Hello CircuitGuy,
      The cronyism is already in full swing and the election still has a long way to go. Soros just gave millions to support her.
      http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01...
      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2...
      Do you believe that money from him is without strings?
      Google "George Soros is Evil" My search with such a specific set of keywords turned up 126,000 results... You can't believe it is all bunk? How Soros the power broker wheels and deals to make his money and support statist, socialist and liberal redistributionist policies...: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/a...
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
        Are you asking if money influence politics? I think the answer is obvious.

        I wasn't clear what you're saying about Soros, but if I had billions I would probably create a foundation to promote open societies around the world to. I don't know if I would give millions to Clinton. Maybe. But I might think I'd rather support local candidates who are likely to support an open society and maybe not spend the money on the presidential election because it the benefits of not having a Republican are offset by complacency with the presidency getting more and more power. I certainly would not pick until I found out if the Republicans changed direction and nominated someone reasonable. Maybe Clinton went to him and said she'd remember him more if he donated early.
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        • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
          Consider the evidence of their behavior and ideologies contrary to the principles of capitalism, liberty and objectivism. These people (Clintons and Soros) epitomize elitist, big centralized command and control power mongers, that force others to live for them, by their rules, so that they might profit, regulate and push an agenda that is "their" vision of utopia, instead of allowing each of us our own. They are the best in the world at it and in making others sympathetic... for altruistic reasons of course...The New Deal, the Great Society, O'care.... more of the same that has not solved the problems intended, but instead created more including excessive taxation, division, injustice to the producers, insurmountable debt, low labor participation rates and policies that drive companies from our shores all while the time bomb of the national debt clock spins off its axis. These past failures they tout as successes because they do not care of the cost/debt, inability to pay same, or they have intent to force more socialism on us. They are cronies that buy their power and profit from unethical industrial moguls, all the way down to buying individual votes... by promising the downtrodden the gold at the end of the rainbow if " we just make the rich pay their fair share." Who is rich? Everyone that makes more money than me...

          Progressives do not offer new progressive ideas; they offer old Marxist ideas repackaged and renamed, but just as inevitably doomed to oppress liberty and prosperity.

          The Clintons are widely held as one of if not the most powerful political names in D.C. They profit by the power of pull. They do deals to scratch each others backs at the expense and servitude of the taxpayers. According to several reports, the Clinton Foundation has been a cash cow for the Clintons paying out an embarrassing percentage on actual charity. It was also reported that big donors received special treatment from Hillary while she was Secretary of State. Look at the past scandals, cover-ups, political upheaval. Do you desire more of that?Consider the future wide spread forced altruism, collectivism, statism and power attainment that would be the result of their expressed policies and evinced by past actions. They are anathema to the oath (see below) and demonstrate it in their actions and policies from health care to taxation. They are big government statists; the polar opposite of limited government public servants. All they need do is feign altruistic, "its all for you" motives and avoid the details and they will sell a pig in a poke.
          Do more objective research on the past actions of the marxist, statist, bank breaking, "one worlder" George Soros and the failures and scandals of the Clintons going back to Arkansas. There is too much, to be dismissed out of hand like so many of their supporters and apologists do. It is pure cognitive dissonance, innocent ignorance, or denial to go on supporting this group of cronies. To suggest with a wink and a nod, that one will remember them later for donating now, even if unspoken, but understood, is unethical at best. I won't support someone that reason dictates is a crony of this magnitude.

          "I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." AS

          Will you investigate? objectively consider the preponderance of evidence? the probabilities?
          Rand Paul was worlds away in political ideology from Hillary.. Your contradictions... I would suggest a half dozen essential reads... ... wasting my time... Some advice: "Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company."
          George Washington

          Much success, CG.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
            I agree with all of this except the parts that try to blame the problems on a few evil people, As human history goes, we're going way above par when it comes to good gov't. There's obviously a long way to go. I see pinning it on a few villains as completely wrong; it's falling victim to the system which encourages an industry around this bickering and demonizing.
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            • Posted by $ 5 years, 9 months ago
              Quite right. We can lay cosiderable blame at the feet of those that support and thus reward the worst examples of these statists. It only creates a market for more and lowers the bar for the future.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
          Thats why they made it free speech and no one objected. Why they are making it free access and no one will object. Question is what are you prepared to do? the rest is blather.
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    • Posted by Timelord 5 years, 9 months ago
      I think you're all being too hard on CircuitGuy. His reverse of voting for the lesser of two evils is just as valid as the standard form. In a way, it's what the Gulchers did. By striking they hastened the implosion of government and society. Wasn't there a long-term goal to rebuild it? If electing Hillary destroys the world then those with ability can try to rebuild it. (I'd never, ever vote for Hillary, but I understand the thinking.) Every time you put a fresh layer of dressing over rotting flesh you're extending the misery. Rip the bandage off and cut out the rot! Only then can healing begin.

      [The only wasted vote is one cast for a candidate that you don't actually want to see in office on his own merits.]
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
        "By striking they hastened the implosion of government and society."
        I don't think this applies to our situation, though, because our society is going strong. It's nowhere near the edge of collapse. Allowing gov't to become more intrusive just gives us a more intrusive gov't. Maybe somewhere in the future it leads to a new American Revolution, but this like calling our problems a Seldon Crisis, with some master plan in the background. Right now many of the problems, including the problems of intrusive and abusive gov't, are way better than they have been in human history. Gov't not respecting liberty is the norm in human history. This bit of liberty we have now is actually the exception. I wouldn't throw it away expecting the pendulum to swing back to liberty.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 9 months ago
      I would NEVER, EVER vote for Hillary. She is a lying and manipulative reincarnation of Nixon. I would vote for Sanders before Hillary (might as well get it all over with quicker). I hope Trump makes it to the nomination or at least runs as an independent. I would vote for him simply because he tells it like it is (for a change) and we need to stop the lying and manipulation in washington. Bring how these policies havent worked (war on drugs, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, war on Terror, etc). We imprison more people than any other country, and it hasnt accomplished much at all.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 5 years, 9 months ago
        That last is a major issue for me, too, and Trump hasn't said a thing about it. Only two major party candidates have supported criminal justice reform: Rand Paul ... and Sanders. That is why I would vote Sanders over Trump.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 5 years, 9 months ago
          "Only two major party candidates have supported criminal justice reform: Rand Paul ... and Sanders."
          He made those comments in the first debate about admiring gov'ts who tell women not to do paid work. He repeatedly says "billionaires" with this contempt in his voice, as if they had all this wealth not deployed for any purpose, as if there were piles of goods and services just sitting someone to be had without work. Maybe it's not contempt, but he clearly is talking about getting more money for gov't. Gov't already spends a huge amt of money.

          Maybe it's not the specifics that annoy me but just the general assumption he has that someone else will solve your problems for you. He really grates on me.
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