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EPA Faces Fallout From Flint, Mich., Water Crisis

Posted by $ nickursis 5 years ago to Government
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You know, this is almost funny. The EPA has spent huge amounts of money chasing people, suing them taking their land and water rights under all kinds of pretenses, and when it came to doing their basic job: FAIL. We need to explain to these idiots that you do your job first, then worry about all the political missions.... More clear proof as to why we just don't need government...a private company wouldn't waste it's money being this stupid.
SOURCE URL: http://www.npr.org/2016/01/22/464013711/epa-faces-fallout-from-flint-mich-water-crisis


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  • Posted by MagicDog 5 years ago
    There is a bigger story that needs to be told. Michigan was one of the top manufacturing centers of the world up until 1964. Then, in 1964, the state legislature turned Democrat with RINO governors for five decades. Republicans had controlled the state legislature for the previous 100 years. This is an important story and Flint is just one symptom. Democrats destroyed Michigan and are now destroying the entire United States of America.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 5 years ago
      I can attest to that. Flint was home to Buick and Chevrolet. Talk about prosperous - if you didn't own a late model car and a boat you were considered a charity case. It now looks like one step up from Tobacco Road.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years ago
        Please don't insult Tobacco Road that way. Where else would you find the sign of the dollar?
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        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years ago
          OOOkay.
          I used that symbolically. However, I can't think of another symbol any worse than what Detroit has become. Detroit itself has become the symbol of decay in America
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years ago
            That was part of my point. The comparison of Detroit to Tobacco Road is an insult to Tobacco Road. I lived in Michigan for five years and know the good, the bad, and the ugly about Michigan.
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          • Posted by MagicDog 5 years ago
            The population of Detroit has declined 61% since 1950 when it was one of the largest cities in the US. Michigan had 19 congressional representatives in 1970. Now it has 14. In 1985, people put signs up that read "will the last person to leave Michigan please turn out the lights". All of this and much more is a result of Democrats and Democrat control of the state.
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          • Posted by $ 5 years ago
            One of many, and something that was well isllustrated in AS. The movies did a good job of catching some of it, and in the first few chapters there is no indication of just how bad things were. This is just a revelation of a really bad situation that can quickly become a tipping point with one more screw up..and our leaders seem to have graduate degrees in screw ups. Even Hillary Beast excuses and lies will not cover up scientific data or dying people.
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      • Posted by MagicDog 5 years ago
        During the 1960s Flint and Detroit ranked in the top three for highest per capita income. Now both are basket cases.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years ago
          They don't even have a basket. I grew up in prosperous Detroit in the late 40s through the 50s. I left the area in '89. By that time Detroit looked worse than Beirut, and was encroaching on the immediate suburbs where I lived. We got out just in time. As a young man I was proud of my city. Now, it's a joke. It started when an ultra lib became mayor, and from that time on the city was dismantled bit by bit until it is the scarred shadow of what it once was.
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          • Posted by MagicDog 5 years ago
            I lived in Flint from 68 to 85 when my employer moved me to Baltimore. I grew up in Iowa and always envied Michigan. It seemed like everything was made there. In 68 Flint still had all the GM plants running fill tilt. I was so proud to be there. In 85 I was happy to get out. In 2005 I took a tour around Flint and was astounded to see all of the GM plants gone. Nothing left but slabs of cement and weeds. Some parts of the city looked like they had been bombed.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 5 years ago
    Water safety and supply, like food and education, is too important to entrust to the government — any government, federal or local. This simply not a proper function of government
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  • Posted by johnpe1 5 years ago
    perfect proof, as you say, that government is organized
    for self-preservation first and service to us, well,
    somewhere along the way ... maybe. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by edweaver 5 years ago
    My questions are why would the EPA be involved at all? Isn't this a local issue?

    One of the reasons that our federal & state governments grow is because anytime something goes wrong people ask why didn't those governments do more to stop it. So then they do. Seems this needs to be handled by the locals. Kick everyone else out.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      Ed, your have the basics correct, we do not need more government. The EPA has been pursuing individual citizens under the Obamanation for his 7 years, going on private land and causing hate and discontent where ever they go, such as the case of the rancher who took a stream on his land, did some alterations to create a pond, added fish, all for his kids to be able to go fishing and see the wildlife that moved into it. They came, ordered him to remove it, and then sued him, he was up to 1.2 million in legal fees fighting it. They have a basic responsibility in their structure to monitor drinking water (as described in the story) and failed at that, but could go harass the hell out of a rancher in the middle of nowhere. The Flint thing is a poster child case of Democraps wanting to do what they wanted, and incompetent government people not knowing a thing about their jobs, for sure, and the EPA goobers are there to help the idiot children. Instead they are used as a political tool for national party politics, just like the IRS. Haven't seen any IRS people on trial yet, either. Must be related to HillaryBeast.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      BTW, you are very correct it is a local issue, but as long as we are getting raped for these useless groups, they should do their jobs. They do claim to have control over water quality and drinking water, so by their own inept standard, it makes it their responsibility, which they did not, of course, do. :)
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      • Posted by edweaver 5 years ago
        I don't disagree with anything you've stated. And I hope you didn't think I was arguing as I was not. I was simply making a point for smaller government via my questions. :)
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        • Posted by $ 5 years ago
          No, no problem, I enjoy it when we have questions and responses, it usually leads to more looks at different angles of the same issue. There is a lot of tangled webs in everything that goes on today, so your question is completely appropriate. Thanks for the discussion :)
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years ago
    EPA'ed by the worst and least qualified. Epaistocracy! ( my new made up word for today)

    Even before Flint...hear any more about the Yellow river by epa daily.
    Remember the mine they screwed up and it turned the Colorado yellow...no heads rolled by that I noticed.
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  • Posted by archerb55 5 years ago
    ha ha epa fallout? you mean like the fallout with the gold king mine/san juan river in colorado? or maybe the standard mine in crested butte colorado? never happen.... only a lowly peon scapegoat possibly
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      All this ties tgether into how the government has morphed from being a supposed servant to the new master. They pick and choose the offences and violations, rather than work for benifit of all. That is one crux of our whole problems and was what I got out of AS. No one works for us anymore, they all KNOW we work for THEM. Look at HillaryBeast, she personifies this perfectly. I am listening to a book series call Fall of the Galactic Empire by Christopher G. Nutall takes place in the far future (4092) man has spread out, crushed all aliens (they are kept as second class citizens or pets) and the Federation Senate rules all, and has become a "High Society". Revolution comes and an admiral is brought in after a rogue admiral attacks earth, and the senate allows him to win the war for them, and then tries to kill him. He ends up taking them out and becomes the 1st emporer, and then the trouble really starts. Parallels a lot of AS as well as what is going on today.
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  • Posted by $ ObjectiveAnalyst 5 years ago
    Hello nickursis,
    Flint is not far from where I live and operate my business. Statist politicians have been killing Michigan with their kindness for so long seeing what has become of the state of my birth makes me sick. The other day I was outraged to hear all the talking heads from D.C. The president had the audacity to imply that anyone who was for smaller government was not giving proper appreciation to government... calling this water problem an example of the importance of government. What!?!? This problem was created by government. There should be more fallout. Many more government heads should roll. There should be no pensions and some should probably be held personally liable. If this water supply was provided by a private sector entity, market forces would maximize responsibility and greatly reduce malfeasance. In the private sector there is more incentive to avoid such things since there is personal liability. Even corporations can be put out of business, but one can never excise all the entrenched bureaucrats and politicians that are responsible. A scapegoat or underling will take the fall at best. Now any mistakes made by government agents, will be made right by taxpayers that had no responsibility. We pay for their ineptitude. The pattern repeats...

    The politics are horrible and disingenuous at best on the part of Clinton and Sanders on the campaign trail. They have tried to shift blame to Gov. Snyder and call for his removal because he is a republican target, but he is barely a republican, had little culpability or knowledge of the events compared to other more direct and local Flint authorities (mostly democrats). They are no better than Michael Moore, who showed up to glom onto some free publicity. Despite what Obama or any of the other statists say, this is actually a typical result of government provided services. Our infrastructure, which should be high priority is mismanaged and crumbling while they waste time and money on things none of their business.
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      OA, everything I have read tracks exactly as you have indicated. I think the issue is that this is a perfect example of something created (possibly intentionally or with complete and utter incompetence),by a specific group (party) with their specific agenda (that silly water treatment plant that was never designed correctly). They rigged and pushed and got their way with less than stellar results, meaning now they must blame someone. Soon I expect HillaryBeast to bleat that it was caused by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, and the sheeple all nod and say "yea", and vote for the useless bag of protoplasm. The defense could be for the people to sue the real criminals, but I bet it would be disallowed as you cannot sue the state, politicians or officials, when they don't want too.
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  • Posted by jdg 5 years ago
    This headline and "crisis" was manufactured to give EPA more power -- when what needs to happen is to abolish the agency as both unconstitutional and unnecessary. Make water service a private business open to competition, and the problem goes away.
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      I don't know, they seemed to be their usual incompetent self's, since they studiously ignored it all, until a woman complained incessantly, and they woke up and decided to get involved, probably because they sensed danger to themselves...
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  • Posted by tkstone 5 years ago
    There is no way this is a local operator mistake. This is water 101. It is an issue of ph. A system like Flint should have no problem handling it. The science is simple. Any water operator could have told them the approach to take and an entry level engineer could work out the process specifics. Every water operator I have ever known takes the production of clean water personally and is fanatical about it. I do blame the EPA, but would be shocked if they don't use this as an excuse for more control. I would be curious to see the turn over level at the Flint water plant. These operators knew what they were putting in the system. Any that did not already resign I would not trust ever again.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years ago
    I wouldn't say we don't need government, but we clearly don't need this. The agencies should be held accountable for their actions, or they should be eliminated or required to hire responsible private companies to perform necessary functions...which none of this water rights crap falls into the category of.
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  • Posted by rbunce 5 years ago
    Living just enough, just enough for the city...

    http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index...

    "This is an important day for us as we break ground on this new project in the city of Flint," said Flint Mayor Dayne Walling. "The river is an invaluable asset."

    "This is a tremendous step in the process of securing Flint's water future," Walling said.

    "The plant, which is used as a backup water supply to Flint and Genesee County, will go from being used four times a year to year-round."

    "When Wright started working at the plant 23 years ago, he was told they would be starting the process to no longer purchase water from Detroit. And now it's happening."

    "We're finally doing it. And I get to see it," Wright said.

    "Sam Muma, president of AFSCME Local 1600, said it's good to see the plant being used to its full potential and for the river to be utilized to its full potential."

    "In all, the upgrades and further use of the water treatment plant will be a benefit to the community, Muma said."

    "This is a good thing for the community. It will provide jobs," Muma said. "Anytime you can be self-sufficient is a good thing. Doing this should eventually decrease water rates for the residents in Flint."

    "The long-term goal is to have more water efficiency and more cost savings in water rates."

    "The hope is to also bring school children out to the plant to have educational tours."


    “Water is an absolute vital service that most everyone takes for granted,” Walling said. “It’s a historic moment for the city of Flint to return to its roots and use our own river as our drinking water supply.”

    “The Flint River is a different river than it was the last time we used it – that was pre-Clean Water Act,” Flint Utilities Director Daughtery Johnson told The Flint Journal last week, adding that the city made two years’ worth of improvements at the water plant in nine months. “It’s a great system. It’s a great asset the city has. Every drop we pull out, we’re going to clean and put right back in the river.”

    http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index...


    How about in March 2013...

    “It’s a historic night in the City of Flint,” Walling said. “The savings will be less with the capacity level approved by city council because there will be increased treatment cost for the river water.”

    "Flint’s water plant and the Flint River is currently the backup for Flint and Genesee County, however, the plant only operates four times per year."

    "Mayor Dayne Walling said the Department of Environmental Quality must approve Flint’s getting 2 million gallons per day from the Flint River."

    "Councilman Bryant Nolden was the lone dissenting vote." “It was a protest vote,” Nolden said. “I knew they had enough votes. I just feel like the Flint River is our best option.”

    http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index...


    “I agree that the river is harder to treat, but what we need to do is make investments in our own system at the treatment plant and on fixing the older pipes throughout Flint,” Walling said on Facebook. “Going back to Detroit and paying their premium is a very high-cost scenario. It’s a million dollars or more per month for Detroit water based on our past experience and what the [Genesee County] is paying now. This would only compound the water cost problem.”

    http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index...
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    • Posted by $ 5 years ago
      Well, how much of all this was Demcrap politics, and how much a personal crusade by someone who did not know what he was doing?
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      • Posted by rbunce 5 years ago
        A healthy mix of failure of government including government bureaucrats at the Federal, State, and Local level who might reasonably be expected to know about the effect of corrosive chemicals in the Flint River, the nature of the Flint Water System pipes and their lead connections and the additives that should be added in those situations or the switch not made at all. Then there are the local and State elected officials that do not hold these incompetent government bureaucrats accountable for their work or perhaps even ignore their advice for their own purposes. Clearly Flint officials had been looking to get out of the "Detroit" water supply for some time and leaped at this chance... and when it went bad walked away and tried to blame the Governor for not stopping them.
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