Non-Moochers Bailing out of France

Posted by plusaf 5 years, 4 months ago to Government
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France's Reckoning: Rich, Young Flee Welfare State... and they're being labeled as traitors!
SOURCE URL: http://www.cbn.com/tv/3255110732001


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 5 years, 4 months ago
    Looks like another collapse of the French Republic is imminent. I think they're too far gone to recover. The question is what happens to the EU if France folds. The German people are already fed up with being the providers for all of the failed states, and may walk away from the EU. There is talk of "secession" of the northern elements of the union to stop the drain on those economies. The southern countries would have to revert to a devalued currency in order to draw business, with some probably reverting to their national economies without union. Belgium would most likely collapse into its Dutch and French elements, and get absorbed into those larger countries.

    Of course, George Soros thinks the EU should bond even closer, and become more like the United States. There isn't a common European culture or language to make that credible.
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    • Posted by monalisaturberville1957 5 years, 4 months ago
      One step closer toward the One World Government, one world church, one world currency, one world every thing. It is only a matter of time.
      Even news journalist in Russia and China speak out about how blind Americans are. How we know more about our celebs than we do about our own political officials who are selling out our Country more so every year. They still fight to gain what Americans allow to be taken from them.
      Sorry for France but even more so, sick to my stomach over my own America. The history books of the future will tell how America the greatest country in the world was brought down by her own peoples lack to rid themselves of a government that threw away the rights so many gave their lives for. A government that ignorantly spent more than they earned, saved nothing and gave more than they could afford to give. Crippling the people by not forcing them to work instead of reforming them to support themselves.
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      • Posted by lostsierra 5 years, 4 months ago
        One World??? Are you kidding??? Take a trip to Crimea, or China or Iran. There is no NEW WORLD ORDER. There is no order. The muslims don't comply with Old Horse Face and his boss, nor do many others. One World? Fat chance, less so now than in many a year.
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        • Posted by monalisaturberville1957 5 years, 4 months ago
          If you cannot see the path this is leading us down then I recommend you open your mind and think beyond what you see. How do you suppose those whom are creating the conflict plan to end it? World war will not, so what will? You must look deeper into those behind the scene. Do you not see what is really going on?
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 4 months ago
    After a couple of days mulling this over, I have some problems. First "non-moocher" is an anti-concept. The word you want is "producer." And millions of producers remain in France, which is not identical with Paris, where millions of producers also live. In addition, not in the original but in a comment to it was a complaint that French workers only put in three hours of labor per day. In fact, when I worked at Kawasaki, that number was also cited by our HR director: it is common for all salaried employees in the industrialized nations. Yes, some people are far more productive - and they charge more, too, and tend to work for themselves. (At a meeting of a local Ruby on Rails group, a presenter told of his many ways to boost his productivity, from keyboard macros to shutting off email.) France has its problems to be sure, but if you know the history of France, you will not be shocked, or surprised or even concerned. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      True that, but I went for an attention-attracting word...

      At the last company that paid me a salary, we had several divisions in France. One in particular got the reputation for what appeared to us 'Murkins as a policy or schedule like this...

      0900 Arrive at work place
      0900 Begin morning coffee break
      1000 Wander over to desk and check voicemail
      1130 Lunch break (beer and wine served in the company café.
      1330 Return to desk. Check voicemail
      1430 Afternoon coffee break
      1500 Leave desk and go home.

      We considered them one of the least 'productive' divisions in the Corporation, and WE were in California! (although in Silicon Valley, some of us still had good work ethics.)

      c'est la meme chose? Absulement!
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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
    To where can we (or they) go? America used to be the place to bail to? Hong Kong is ehh OK. Maybe Singapore? It's a little too restrictive for my liking.

    Anyone interested in buying a cruise ship to make into a floating Galt's Gulch off the coast of Florida?
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    • Posted by  $  Snezzy 5 years, 4 months ago
      Bunch of folks tried that back around the same time as the failed "Minerva" project. Probably about 1972. They actually built a concrete boat at Saugerties-on-Hudson. The plan was to sail around hither and thither, never being in port long enough to be taxed. From what I remember hearing, it sank on launch. Probably still there, a hazard to navigation. King Neptune collects his taxes.

      Going to sea is not for the timid or the foolhardy. It requires a special kind of faith, one based in careful trust. There will be incredibly scary times, and to weather them one must trust the vessel and trust the captain. If you cannot do those things you have only two other choices:
      1. If you think you can do better than the skipper, attempt mutiny.
      2. Otherwise, jump overboard.

      Your time at sea must be productive. In port your business is trading. At sea your business is to stay alive to get to the next port and perhaps to catch fish.

      The floating Galt's Gulch Cruise Ship would need to be marketed and run professionally as any other cruise ship. Recent news stories indicate how difficult that can be. Do it on a lark, rather than as a well-planned business, and your money and the ship are gone.
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      • Posted by  $  jbrenner 5 years, 4 months ago
        Thanks for the education. I thought I had heard about such an endeavor, but never in so much detail. Fortunately the typical clientele for cruise ships (I've been on several now that we live in east central Florida.) is nothing but producers and their families. With the exception of Carnival, the cruise ship industry is remarkably well run. I'll gladly be in charge of biofouling control. Biofouling on the outside of cruise ships can as much as halve the profits.
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  • Posted by rballan 5 years, 4 months ago
    Typical. If you criticize a leader who is black or if you disagree with the method of ministering to the minorities, you're branded a racist. When you criticize the State, especially when it's in economic bad straits, and decide to leave the country, you're branded a traitor. Both examples refuse to address the issue and rely on instead making straw man attacks in an attempt to maintain the status quo.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 4 months ago
    Historical examples of "brain drain" go back to ancient times. People pursue opportunity and smart people all the moreso. In the early 1960s, Ayn Rand pointed to the "brain drain" as a consequence of British socialism. The phenomenon was known by that name at that time. The citation usually goes to a Royal Society publication. You can read the RS Notes on it here:
    http://rsnr.royalsocietypublishing.org/c...

    That is probably why lostsierra called this "old news." In fact, the Wikipedia article about Brain Drain cites the Huguenot exodus from France in the 17th century. Among the places they went was Charleston in what is now South Carolina. The US Mint struck a Huguenot commemorative Half Dollar in 1924.

    China continues to clamp down on the Internet and Chinese engineers continue to flee to the US on student visas. It is cause and effect. India is the world's largest democracy, and (not surprisingly) makes business difficult. So, they come to the USA.

    The question is, "Where do we go?" Back in 1999 John Stossel pointed to Hong Kong where you could go into business with far less hassle than in the USA. It did not motivate me to pack up and leave. Mitt Romney was born in Mexico and those semi-secret enclaves of Americans seem attractive to some libertarians, but not to me.
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    • Posted by amagi 5 years, 4 months ago
      Mr. Marotta, thanks for bringing up the Huguenots, one of them was an anchestor of mine. Few have probably heard of Nicolas Martieau who settled in Virginia in 1620, but his
      great-great-great grandson they do know: our
      first President, Washington.

      Otto Zoff wrote a book on the history and struggles of the Huguenots (1942) and I do like
      the last line in the book:

      "The struggle of mankind continues uninterrupted; it began with the Creation and has never been waged in vain. He who gives himself to this struggle knows that the courage of man is his best hope, perhaps his only one."
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      Thanks for that perspective... I think I was seeing 'old news' as 'useless data' but what I was reacting to was the aspect of 'well, there goes history, repeating itself; will we be smart enough to learn from it?'

      "Where do we go" can have multiple implications, too... emigrate or try to reverse the trend.

      A friend of mine says that most of the civilizations which have NOT endured were the ones that went 'over the hill' to an entitlement- and moocher-based culture and if you go too far past the 'productivity peak,' you can reach a point from which you just can't reverse the trend.

      Problem is: figuring out where that point is... as well as what do individuals OR society DO at that point...
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      • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 5 years, 4 months ago
        Perhaps every culture and society has had a basis of looting modified by mooching. America may have been the the first one that was not.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
          As a basis, no. Correct. But perhaps as a common de-evolution? Notice the increasing frequency of the appearance of the term 'crony capitalism' in the MSM today... as on the cover of The Economist.

          Just MAYBE we can pull back from the abyss.
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  • Posted by WBD 5 years, 4 months ago
    Wow. I'd heard things were bad in France but I didn't realize it was THIS bad.

    Thanks for the link.
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    • Posted by OBO 5 years, 4 months ago
      I'm French.
      It is THIS BAD. And even worse.
      Welcome in Hell.
      I'm personally in the "I won't give you my brains" phase. I do what I'm told. That's all. I won't help you out of your mess. Use your brains, for once, I won't do it for you.
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      • Posted by amagi 5 years, 4 months ago
        Do you, by any chance, know of Frederic Bastiat ?
        The former Mayor of Saint-Loubouer, M. Jacques
        de Guenin, was the founder of Cercle de Frederic
        Bastiac, and also an admirer of Ayn Rand, and
        having had no contact with him for some years,
        I do wonder if the Cercle is known or still in
        operation. It was a good idea, but perhaps one
        that's not well known ?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      it reminded me of what happened about forty years ago in Britain. Wage controls and crap like that, engineers discovered they could emigrate to the US and get LOTS more pay.

      They called it the UK Brain Drain.

      History, if it doesn't repeat, rhymes.
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  • Posted by Susannah 5 years, 4 months ago
    Wonder how (or if) these numbers rationally compare with the numbers of Americans renouncing their citizenship? Here we call it "voting with your feet". We haven't heard too awfully much about these numbers ... in either country on the MSM. Not too surprising, that.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
      I think the MSM may make a big deal about a few, but to me it's all anecdotal until you look at stats like "percent of population" or some other similar ratio. "Lots" of kids fled the US in the Vietnam era but we never seemed to hear of any major impact on the US as a result. Economic? Not likely. Political? Probably more impact from those who didn't leave and stayed to protest.

      But most of us here would/could have predicted this kind of situation for France to happen eventually. Question for me is: how long before the 'leaders' in France change their tune...
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 4 months ago
    Unlike France, the USA is worth saving. I realize that what is happening here Is irrational and downright disgusting, but when America goes, it is likely civilization will enter a new Dark Ages. That may mean the suppression of religion, but also the suppression of science as well.
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    • Posted by BradA 5 years, 4 months ago
      Unfortunately I cannot agree.

      The US has already turned the corner. If I earned as much as I used to earn, 60% of it would go to the fed and California taxes. So I choose not to.

      Regarding suppression of science, this is already happening WRT any scientific findings that contradict the Religion of Man-made Global Warming, err Climate Change.

      I see very few signs of meaningful reversal in the future. So, hunker down and survive until things change. Or not.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 4 months ago
        I agree with everything you said but things won't change by "hunkering down." It will take participation in opposing the current situation(s). You cannot win as a spectator, but must get into the arena and fight. But don't misunderstand me. It won't take violence, at least not yet. That will only happen with the need for self-defense. There are easy to find movements afoot to stem the slide into fascism. Too late for an old fart like me, The best I can do is wield a keyboard. But being an observer is no longer an option.
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        • Posted by BradA 5 years, 4 months ago
          I AM fighting. By being John Galt.
          If you search for some of my older posts, I've explained my approach and viewpoint (so as not to repeat it here).
          The other alternative would be to resort to politics. Unfortunately there is really not much difference between the elephants and the asses, err, I mean donkeys. Crony capitalism and big government on one side or socialism and big government on the other. Which is why last year I changed affiliation from the elephants to the libertarians (do they have an animal ?). Not that they've got it right either, but they're more closely in sync with Objectivism than anyone else.
          But, bottom line, I will not contribute to a society that values those contributions only in their taking.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 4 months ago
            Rand fashioned a fantasy to prove a point. Since I am relatively new to the Gulch, I am not privy to your former posts. This is a much different world than it was in the 50's, and with all due respect, your approach without the participation of those who think the same as you is useless. Unless you have invented the wondrous motor and personally visited the outstanding men of the mind, you cannot be John Galt. I am the same as you, not by choice, but by physical impairment. The difference between the elephants and asses is starting to emerge in the Libertarian movement. Not fully Rand but closer to the aims of the Founders than in recent memory. It is your voice and the voices of those like you that can change the downward slide leading to a fascist oblivion.
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  • Posted by jimslag 5 years, 4 months ago
    Well, you could say the same about the US. It is not to the levels of the French yet but the number of going to expatriate is rising. Unlike the French who are no longer taxed once they leave, we lucky US taxpayers are taxed no matter where in the world we go. They not only tax us but they add additional forms and requirements on those that do leave. So the answer for many is to give it up and no longer be a US tax cow to be milked to death. I know a few and wish them well, I will join them eventually but I will still be paying those taxes as my pension is US based and if I expatriate, I lose it. Sure could use that Mega Million jackpot.
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    • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 years, 4 months ago
      It certainly is the direction the US is moving. Thank you public schools for promoting entitlemen thinkingt. Years ago, during Clinton, Britain warned the US to NOT implement outcome based education, they said it produced a "brain drain" in their country. Clinton went full steam ahead with this per-Common Core, socialist program. Now look where we are, with youth disdaining producers.
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      • Posted by gonzo309 5 years, 4 months ago
        I was fighting outcome based education in the early 90s when they tried to implement that at the west Michigan school district my kids attended. I got up and spoke at the school board meeting and was not kind but civil. It's time to do the same thing with common core, however it's called, to stop our kids from being further dumbed down.
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        • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 years, 4 months ago
          One has only to look at the young voters today, to see what these school programs have produced - entitlement babies with limited reasoning power.
          Back about the same time, I was writing letters to the editor to fight the past incarnation in our schools, leading them to put me on the "Strategic Plan Team", to try to shut me up. Luckily, we had studied the Delphi Technique they used on us, and stuck to our beliefs. Now a whole new generation of parents are being blindsided by these programs, obviously on an international level.
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          • Posted by gonzo309 5 years, 4 months ago
            The same thing they use at Agenda 21 and sustainable development meetings. If you are alone they will ridicule you. The way to defeat this technique is to have multiple people who support each other and stand together. Rosa Koire is an expert on this. Listen to her on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV5J2Axv...
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            • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 years, 4 months ago
              Beware, they do not let you stay together if you go together. They do pre-investigation to see who disagrees. Then they separate you, as in: put you in small groups with handlers who support the desired outcome. You are then told you are the only one who thinks as you do. Of course our people had studied the technique and how to handle it, as in stay calm, but unflinching. I do not mind saying just because someone disagrees with me, does not mean they are right, so lets move forward. However, we lost one of our people, who said she could not believe people she knew could be so mean, and she finished the meetings in silence. They know exactly what the result is meant to be, and you can only hang in there and stay firm in opposition. In the case of Agenda 21, our property rights and entire way of life is at stake.
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              • Posted by gonzo309 5 years, 4 months ago
                You're absolutely right. You stand together in principle but are scattered throughout the meeting area. If you do it right, they'll shut the meeting down when they lose control.
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                • Posted by  $  Stormi 5 years, 4 months ago
                  Oh yeah. And when it goes real good, they turn on each other. We had them refusing to sit with their own kind, and one had a nervous breakdown. Amazing when treachery comes home to roost. If we are to reclaim our country in the name of reason, we have to master psychological warfare. If more people had read "Rules for Radicals", Obama would not be the puppet king, turning the USA into a collectivists' utopia, like so much of Europe..
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                  • Posted by 5 years, 4 months ago
                    From a friend/relative's email...

                    "Something to ponder....

                    These two short profound sentences tell you a lot about our government and our culture:

                    1. We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we ARE encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works.

                    2. Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money. How come we never hear about welfare running out of money? What's interesting is the first group "worked for" their money, but the second didn't. "

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