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Watched the Debates. We're Doomed.

Posted by $ Abaco 10 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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OK, I have avoided the debates until recently. Watched most of the Repub one last week and almost all of the Dems (on the dvr yesterday). I have come to the conclusion that we're probably doomed. With the Republicans...if you really listen closely you see this overwhelming desire to use government to fix things. There are, surprisingly, promises to "tax for this" and "tax for that". I don't remember hearing a peep about smaller government.

Then...there are the Dems. Of the three in the debate, Omally (sp?) is the only one who sounds sane. At all. Seems like a decent person, actually. Has no chance in hell. Hillary, to even my surprise, offered ZERO solutions to anything. (I don't expect any hint of a hands-off approach from this crowd, so work with me). She pointed out that the lead in the water in Flint had to do with race. I have always thought she'll be the next president and, apparently, she thinks so too. Very scary thought. Worse than the current guy in there? Anybody's guess. Then, there's Bernie. Sometimes, he actually makes a little sense. But, there is his tireless fixation with other people's money. He absolutely sees wealth as something to be taken. He's very open about it. And, just this morning I heard a clip of him talking up Fidel Castro. Anybody here ever been to Cuba? He said that the lack of an uprising is proof that the people like the Communism there. Very scary stuff. Way out of touch with reality. Yet, I check social media this morning and some people I know back Bernie.

I think things in America are going to get much worse before they get better. My little son made some interesting statements. He has a disability, but has progressed well. He'll actually sit and watch these people talk and figure out who's full of crap (all of them). After watching a while he looked up at me and said, "Dad. What will you do if Sanders gets elected?" Without hesitation I responded, "Hide our stuff." That turned into a short, fun conversation...


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  • Posted by coaldigger 10 years, 4 months ago
    I read a quote today that I think is appropriate here: "Politicians are like sperm. One in a million turns out to be an actual human being." I am afraid that we haven't met the lucky one yet!
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    • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 4 months ago
      Even then, half of those should have been aborted.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 4 months ago
        I disagree. Politicians need to wear condom suits.
        Kinda like Kickass's green costume in the flick by the same name..
        I recall Kickass approaching the apartment door of local black gang boss Raoul and being asked by a fat hoodlum guard, "Who are you? The Green Condom?",
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        • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 4 months ago
          You mean to say that you would trust them in self non-proliferation? Noooo, we need a government program to ensure that...
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 4 months ago
            Aw, forget the whole thing.
            A government program (= more tax money wasted) would be controlled by politicians who'd then be enabled to sneak off their condom suits every chance they got.
            New slang phrases would crop up such as "Doing the Dirty Bill."
            Our troubled country does not need any more sleazy career politicians doing the dirty all over it.
            No wait, that's what the condom suits are supposed to prevent.
            No, double wait! They would be made in China.
            That's why I stopped buying pull over shirts with sewn on pockets.
            Holes appear where the pockets are attached.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 4 months ago
    Things will get worse. Whether they ever get better is highly debatable.
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    • Posted by roneida 10 years, 4 months ago
      jbrenner.... They will immediately get "better" when the current occupier of OUR white House is replaced by any one of the Republican candidates. None of them are running on an identity basis, but on ideas and disgust with what American government has become.

      If you think the Republicans are inexperienced and hopeless, you have been on another planet for the last 7 years. We have seen experience community dis-organizing at its worst . If our dying large cities get any worse, we will experience real martial law and desperation as the non producers jealousy is fanned by a regime that flourishes on class hatred and jealousy.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 4 months ago
        You have just described the next 4 years if either a GOP or a Dem is elected president.
        The Republicans are far from inexperienced. Unfortunately the experience they have is only good for a stronger, more intrusive fedgov and the continued destruction of individual liberty and free markets. The GOP promises the good (liberty) and delivers the evil (socialist-facist statism.)
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        • Posted by roneida 10 years, 4 months ago
          to freedom for all,,I'm far too old to give up and commit suicide...what do you propose ???more social/lib class hate??? more executive orders instead of Congressional vote,??? more destructive social meddling and forced associations, more politically correct butt kissing?? I have no great hero worship of the Republicans but after watching the debasement of America from internal incompetence of the current pretend leader, I don't think we can do worse.
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          • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 4 months ago
            "don't think we can do worse."
            The statist party has disproven this assumption for the past 50 years. They have proven that a vote for either the GOP or the Dems is a vote for the status quo: bigger, more powerful fedgov, less liberty, and a more crippled, more manipulated, less free market.
            I think the only peaceful chance that America has is for so-called conservative voters to recognize the betrayal perpetrated by the GOP, and vote for a principled third party. The only excuse they give is: 3rd parties can't win. Without rational voters, that is true. Conservatives must show they are better than liberals and vote on principles of individual liberty against the state.
            "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
            Good men have been doing nothing for 50 years and its clear the same old vote for the lesser of two evils is the problem, not the solution.
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            • Posted by roneida 10 years, 4 months ago
              freedomforall,,,I agree with your wish for a 3rd. party and feel silly hoping the republican mob competing against 2 1/2 democrats may turn out to be the first foundation stones for this miracle. We have to start somewhere. It will not happen without a huge involvement of America Firsters who "ask not what their country can do for them, but ask, what can we do for OUR country." Don't forget to vote. The discussions have changed
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 4 months ago
    As a country, we ARE doomed to go down the socialist path like Venezuela. In fact there should be a TV series showing how government becomes more and more restrictive as the economy gets worse and worse
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
      OK, the second time I've read this comment it sunk in. Yes...there should be an ongoing series documenting this AS IT IS HAPPENING. It could run like 60 Minutes - a weekly update. Brilliant idea. It could be a half-hour show...once each week.
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      • Posted by term2 10 years, 4 months ago
        Yeah. Venezuela is like experiencing atlas shrugged in real time. If the populace didn't believe atlas shrugged was more than a fictional novel- here is the real thing, the end times. We will get to watch the total collapse of a country and get to see a dictator take use his power to stretch out his reign until one day he is going be assassinated by a desperate mob
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    • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 4 months ago
      LOL... and who's going to make that documentary?
      PBS?
      Masterpiece Theater?

      And who, after watching it, will respond by changing their mind?
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      • Posted by term2 10 years, 4 months ago
        My point was that so many people are just ignorant of the real end times of socialism. They have been steeped in the belief government can take care of them and don't see the reality that government is only out for itself
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        • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 4 months ago
          Oh, Term2, I agree Completely...
          But part of the reality check is still "who's going to make That documentary, who's going to broadcast it, and Whose minds will be changed by seeing it?"
          Precious few in any group, I'm sorry to guess.
          And that's where the 'doom' forecast comes from.
          Seniors like Trump because we've see the rampant bullshit of DC for scores of years in our lifetimes. Kids under 25 or so are vulnerable to Bernie because so many of their parents or teachers or professors have steeped them in socialist tea most of their lives. They don't have any other inputs, and nobody's ever taught them Critical Thinking. I'm writing a book on it...
          Hang in there...
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          • Posted by term2 10 years, 4 months ago
            Who would put up the money is a good question. Look what happened with AS movie
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            • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 4 months ago
              No, T2, it's not the money... what Organization would support (philosophically, let alone financially...) the Creation, let alone Dissemination of such subject material?!

              In the same vein of "let's petition Congress to lower their salaries and benefits..." Gee-- such a vote-getter That Would Be! Same situation.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 4 months ago
    Hello Abaco,
    I have watched them too. Sad really to believe that so many are taken in by this nonsense. The last one with the Dems had me thinking the whole time, these three are just trying to outbid each other for votes with more money we don't have. Every solution offered was a statist government one... as if the problems they wanted to solve weren't originally created in the same manner....
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 4 months ago
    Looking at the front runners all I can say is that America has declined from the hope of humanity into hopeless humanity.
    Your son is most likely a better candidate than the likely nominees, but I would hate to put such a burden on one so young.
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  • Posted by SubVet 10 years, 4 months ago
    In one of the earlier debates, Rand Paul sounded like his father calling for a federal government so small that you don't see it...
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  • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 4 months ago
    Sanders occasionally sees the problem but his solutions are worse. Hillary is so hell bent on winning the White House I think she would blame the Republicans for the Titanic sinking. Some Republican ideas are good but it seems to me I heard them in 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996, 1992....
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years, 4 months ago
    Listened to earlier R debates and Cruz and Paul did talk about and would make government smaller.
    We'd all like to have it all done at once but I think the smarter way would be a 'defined' little at a time.
    After, of course, after taking out the Fed, The IRS, the BLM and the dept of education. Along with disempowering HLS and the EPA.

    But truthfully I would be satisfied if we just attended to the constitution and the principle ideas of our founding, maybe one of us or others like us might do our part as being representative of America in our government.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 4 months ago
    most of the time, I wish that we all could hide our stuff
    from these plunderers who are doing their best to money-grub
    their way to wealth and power. . disgusting. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by tamillerwv 10 years, 4 months ago
    Not that he is the perfect candidate, but the only Republican that does talk about smaller government, less intrusion, etc, is Rand Paul and he has been ignored by the media. They have done a great job at ostracizing him. I try not to look at them as Democrats vs. Republicans... I try to look at them as Statists vs. Individualists. Watch out for leftist Republicans.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 4 months ago
    It's all about expectations. There is a natural expectation that society progresses, both materially and morally, with the ideal being that eventually anyone being poor or sick will have to make some really bad decisions to get that way, and major conflict will be a thing of the past. Utopian vision, admittedly, but it's at the core of nearly everyone's ideal world.

    Politicians get elected primarily on how well they appeal to our Utopian desires, rather than how well they address the more immediate, mundane problems. Those politicians that make a concerted effort to detail exactly how they're going to fix the various near term problems usually lose, as the interest of the voter is simple minded and fickle.

    Regardless of what the political candidates promise, any success will depend on how pragmatic they are, and how gifted they are are making the deal with the various interest groups on the Hill (did I just use a Trump term?). Given that reality, I assess each competitor on their personal history and performance. O'Malley ranks at the bottom, since the city he mayored (Baltimore) and the state he governed (Maryland) are socialist economic and crime basket cases. Ted Cruz doesn't fare much better, as his only major accomplishment has been getting elected, and he's proven to be an unproductive pain in the backside in the Senate. Trump has a history of success based on tremendous negotiating skills, and Kasich has an admirable track record, both in Congress and as a governor of Ohio.

    Trust and integrity are also important, with Clinton at rock bottom on that score. Sanders is more trustworthy, which is frightening in a way, as you can believe he'll try his best to institute a socialist government. Rubio looks and sounds good, but he's a toady for the sugar industry.

    I was a Rand Paul supporter, but I've lost faith in his ability to promote the small government message effectively enough to win broad support. Intellectually he makes the most sense, but he lacks Trump's skill at gaining the media attention necessary to capture the crowd's emotions.

    Are we screwed? While I'm skeptical anyone can easily overcome the friction of an incompetent, corrupt unelected civil service institution, I don't think we are - yet. If a Democrat President captures the SCOTUS, the heart of our republic is in serious peril. Like the candidate or not, I'll vote Republican, as a vote against, as Will Rogers advised.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 4 months ago
      Good analysis. Definitive improvement is going to require a social change such that 'what is appealed to in order to get the votes' has altered. In the meantime, I will hope for a marginal improvement: Someone who can say, "...a Utopian chicken in each pot..." with a straight face and who has a covert intent to solve some of the real problems when he gets elected.

      Jan
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  • Posted by scojohnson 10 years, 4 months ago
    "Talking to Fidel"... Lol, he took off and immigrated to The Soviet Union for several years to live in his communist utopian fantasy. He brought his new bride with him and she was going to go back to the US with or without him.

    Assuming either will win is not rooted in reality, Obama turned filibuster-proof democrat majorities into the largest Republican control of the House and Senate in 70 years in 2 cycles, it's looking like another 10 seats this time. Maybe you live in a left district or something, but doesn't square with electoral counts, polls are just a poll, not electoral points in the winner-take-all state by state system.

    The Swift Boat campaign is running already on Hillary, most of the strategy was to give Bernie enough help to either beat her or severely wound her.

    Trump is actually much higher than he even looks because they poll 'likely Republican voters', 7 out of 8 of his attendees in Reno were unemployed steel workers, blue collar workers, etc., only half with a college education, and are never thought of as Republican. When the field collapses around him, he gets 100% of Republicans because we would never vote for a cackling witch or a communist, he is also going to drag a lot of the Union and non-union laborers... Would likely look like Carter v Reagan.

    The guy hasn't spent a dollar on a TV ad yet... And looks like he just took out Cruz in Iowa for free.
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 10 years, 4 months ago
    "With the Republicans...if you really listen closely you see this overwhelming desire to use government to fix things."

    You are right on with this.......They see government as a potential solution, not what it is....the problem.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 4 months ago
    They have nothing to compare it to that is positive Bastista to Castro just meant changing the sign on the door and learning some new slogans.

    I didn't watch the debates, skimmed the over view and learned....nothing I didn't know all ready. The real question is what are their viewpoints and platforms going to be when they get elected ....really?
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  • Posted by $ Gonzotr 10 years, 4 months ago
    I have made a decision recently. I have been a long time supporter of Ted Cruz. And recent events have only solidified my trust in Him. We have been looking, and as close to perfect as it comes, Ted Cruz is it. If the Repub establishment, If the Donald, et Al, run him out, I will, for the first time, support and advocate, and beg for Ted to start a True third party, no matter the cost. I have stayed in the GOP to try to effect form within. No longer. There is a real paradigm shift occurring, It will go Hard socialist, or return to a conservative renaissance. There will be no in between.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 4 months ago
      Amen to that. In truth he is not qualified under the Constitution but the greater truth is there is no more constitution. So no reason to Trump or the others. It's choose up sides and write our own definitions ones with real meaning....Cruz, Webb, the rest who have perhaps seen the light. Time for a reformation and time to drive the money lenders out of the temple. Time to stop quibbling over nothing.
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  • Posted by omniscientMind 10 years, 4 months ago
    The problem is our nation has lost motivation, I truly believe we have left the concept of working for what we earn, becoming tolerant of people holding their hands out, we can not however allow this, this altruistic state is truly going to undermine the once great United States. I was educated in the idea that we are to work for what we want, so we should teach those who wish for this altruistic system to continue that they do not have to lower their esteem and accept hand outs but instead work for their keep. To build their self esteem and feel the wonderful sense of achievement. Only when do we the people who truly understand this principle educate those who do not understand this will save our nation.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years, 4 months ago
    Just as a body with disease, it took years to find one's self in that state of health. Likewise, it's taken a bit over 100 years to get where we are today. So, it's clear: we ain't gona erradicate the kakistocracy over night, Hell, it might in fact take years to even discover all the damage we need to be repair.

    I just can't imagine how it all will turn out. I dare not, in the face of many disappointments of the past, believe in one thing or another but I will do my part as best I can and prepare for the worst...I do not like feeling that way.
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 4 months ago
    There's gotta be a Bernie remix video somewhere of him going on and on about other people's "MUNNNY!" It creeps me out to hear him...every statement starts with, "Day have plenny of munnny. We need to take it and..." I get the willies from it...
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 10 years, 4 months ago
    I listened to the recent Republican debate on my
    radio. I just think the best idea is to vote for Cruz.
    If Trump gets it, it will be very dangerous, as he
    brags about being unprincipled and is not a free-
    enterprise man. But who knows how it will turn out?
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 10 years, 4 months ago
    I watched the first few Republican debates, and Carly Fiorina is the only one I definitely remember talking about reducing the size of government, but there may have been a couple of others. Jeb Bush wasn't one of them, for sure. And John Kasich might as well be a Dimocrat.

    And speaking of Dimocrats, I keep saying that they are only running old white guys. They are all socialists, but Bernie Sanders is the only one honest enough to admit it. Shrillary is only in contention because she is married to Bill, who will get his third and (maybe) fourth terms as the de-facto president. O'Malley is the only halfway qualified Dimocrat, and he is at 1% in the polls. Doesn't this speak volumes about how far left the Dimocrat party is? It wouldn't surprise me very much if Bernie Sanders is their nominee. The evening pundits on Fox News laugh at that possibility, but they also laughed at Donald Trump's chances. If Hillary gets into real legal trouble over her personal e-mail server, Bernie could very well be the nominee. The Obama Justice department will ultimately make the call to prosecute, and I think that decision turns on the political question of who Obama wants as his successor.

    It's hard for me to watch the death of freedom in America, even harder when you consider that people are just throwing away their freedom in exchange for a litany of empty promises. The policies that the Dimocrats run on would have guaranteed that they would lose a presidential election by 60 percentage points 100 years ago. Now we're sweating out if a Republican can squeak out a 2 point victory over a socialist. This does not bode well for the future.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 4 months ago
      Obama may not need a successor. If he decides not to abdicate what's to stop him? And don't say the Constitution. it would sound silly at the is point.

      2. We thought hillary was the de facto president. You mean that story is finally changing...

      3. Obama may well prosecute Hillary in order to remove any competition from the left

      4. Never assume that 44% to 46% group of non Rino and non-Dino voters may suddenly become greater than fifty percent. Could end up the only one left standing for both halves of the Government Party to support is Fiorino. Only way they have a chance at 50% plus anyway..A lot of people are re-thinking the fallacies of believing Republicans AND Democrats

      End of story will be a winner with about 26% of the vote. Leving a majority of 75% to a ruling plurality of 25%

      I'm sweating out either one of those loser groups winning. But it's better to explode the fairy tales and start over - especially now there is no law of the land.

      Obama intends to use the military to maintain control. If he does he'll be ousted in counter revolution ... He has not too much left in the coookie jar. and puttng the people he spent eight years despising heh heh heh. you think he's that stupid or it's Barack Against The Wall Time?
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