Microsoft updates support policy: New CPUs will require Windows 10

Posted by $ nickursis 10 years, 1 month ago to Technology
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Boy, they just do not give up. If people do not want to voluntarily buy their buggy, privacy holed OS, then they will force you to. I am thinking this is just going to add strength to the "other OS" world. I might just have to learn how to use Linux, although the next step will be to force vendors to change their software so it will only install and run right on Windows...Is it anti trust time yet?
SOURCE URL: https://www.yahoo.com/


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  • Posted by ProfChuck 10 years, 1 month ago
    I tried W10 and switched back to W7 after finding out that half my programs would not run because of driver issues. I have several computers running Ubuntu and never have any problems with that OS. MS is a company whose time has come and gone.
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  • Posted by blackswan 10 years, 1 month ago
    This makes you wonder why open source OSs, like Ubuntu (linux based) hasn't gained traction. It's less buggy, has an office suite that does the same thing as office, and it's free (at least thus far). It suggests that there actually is first mover advantage.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
    What an opportunity for a computer manufacturer to build machines that give you a choice of operating systems. Think any of them have the cojones to do it? Probably not.
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
      Microsoft have been putting heavy pressure on manufacturers to build their machines to only ever be able to run Windows. Try an install Ubuntu, or OSX, and the machine will either simply refuse, or it will allow the installation but only run at a fraction of its top speed.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
        Clever of MS.
        But, they can only do it with the compliance of the computer manufacturers. They must be getting big bucks out of it. I could picture a start-up company building machines with optional operating systems. I wonder if there's any American spirit left?
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        • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
          The problem with creating a startup is the rapidly-rising entry barriers. Designing a machine that will perform to today's specs requires access to chips that are heavily patent encumbered, and that are increasingly being controlled by Microsoft.

          Sorry if this offends any Austrian School devotees, but to me this is a classic example of market failure - a monopoly gaining such market power that competition is stifled by market friction, resulting in massive economic inefficiencies all round.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
            It is unfortunate, but you are right. What you say is reality and if reality offends than work to change it. Easier said than done. I have been retired for a while. It occurs to me that I am not aware of the difficulties in getting a start up company going. In 1969 when I started my first business, all I needed was a good location, an occupancy permit and a desire to work my ass off. There was lots of competition, but not the monopolistic kind, even though many tried. Those days are gone and the world of distorted Capitalism, or Crony Capitalism or whatever, is the mixed-up economic reality of today's America.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 1 month ago
      There is a possibility to use OSX on a windows platform, I saw some articles that explained it, involving using a win emulator to run it. Seemed complicated but may be worthwhile.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 1 month ago
        In the days of yore, just a few blocks from our publishing firm there was a component manufacturer who also made custom computers This was before Windows. We used MS Dos and a system called Pathfinder devised for dummies like me. No problem. They'd whip one up in a week. At 1/2 the market price. They also offered to create an easy to use operating system, but I never got around to ordering one.
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    • Posted by $ TomB666 10 years, 1 month ago
      There is a local computer store near me that will build any thing you want. No need to buy either Windows or Apple. If you look, that may well be a similar store near you. It advertises itself as a repair shop, and repair means anything from starting with an empty case to fixing your old windows machine :-)
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  • Posted by Stormi 10 years, 1 month ago
    It is past time to say no to Microsoft! It is time for their CEO to be canned. This is not free enterprise, this is hostage tacking, and i am sick of it. They are not trading value for value, they are expecting us to update to crap.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years, 1 month ago
    "The more the Empire tightens its grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers."

    There used to be a reason not to use Linux, compatibility and ease of use. Compatibility is almost a thing of the past, and so has ease of use.

    I use Windows 7 and Macs at home, and Windows 8 at work. Macs work better, but Windows works. Unix was a preeminent invention. Thank you Mssrs Thompson and Ritchie!
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago
    this is sickening, as I continue to use w7. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
      I am convinced that the danger to your privacy is greater using W10 than it is using unsupported W7.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago
        we have lifelock ultimate and still, I'm shaking in my
        shoes when the w10 dialogue box appears. -- j
        .
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        • Posted by ewv 10 years, 1 month ago
          Here is a comparison of security software designed to block usoft telemetry reporting back to the home planet from Windows 7-10: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comp...

          An easy to use one is AntiBeacon at https://forums.spybot.info/downloads.... and downloadable from http://www.softpedia.com/get/PORTABLE...

          If you are using Windows 7 the steps below work so far to block W7 downgrades to W10 and the annoying goading.

          suppress display of W10 update popup notices in Windows 7:
          ....control panel > all control panel items > notification areas icons
          ..or
          ....right click taskbar > properties > customize
          then
          ......."GWX Get Windows 10" - "Hide icon and notifications"

          to remove KB3035583 "update" pushing W10:
          ....control panel > all control panel items > programs and features > installed updates
          ........"Upgrade for Windows 7 for x64-based systems (KB3035583)"
          ............right click > uninstall

          to view update history
          ....control panel > all control panel items > windows update > view update history

          hide KB3035583 "update" to prevent future "offer"
          ....control panel > all control panel items > windows update > select updates to install
          ........important
          ............"Upgrade for Windows 7 for x64-based systems (KB3035583)"
          ............right click > hide update

          prevent silent automatic updates -- notification only, to choose updates installed
          ....(updates are normally released on the second Tues of each month)
          ........control panel > windows update > change settings
          ............notify important updates
          ............notify recommended updates
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        • Posted by Stormi 10 years, 1 month ago
          To get rid of the Win 10 dialogue box, go to updates installed under Control Panel, about June they sent out update KB3035583 - uninstall it. They will continue to try to include it in updates from time to time, but don't allow it. That is where they got access. Before I got rid of it, they tried 37 times to update my Win 7 to 10! Luckily, I do not allow auto install.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
          Unless you are using W10 there is no reason to even get that message. Do you really think that the windows updates are required ? They aren't. I never allow windows updates on my computers (except when I was installing windows XP on a new empty machine and I wanted SP3 update.) I have good virus software protection and there is little likelihood that anyone would be interested in attacking my machine in a way that defeats that software. It is possible but not very probable imo. (I do take care on what software I load and what links I click in email and on web sites.) Your situation may be different, of course. If you have a company full of networked machines then the "security" updates may be more valid.
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          • Posted by $ 10 years, 1 month ago
            That is one way to handle it. I tend to make sure I don't see any hate mail on various updates and then install them. Win7 take a long time to do a fresh install on, I am putting together a I7 5930K machine and am having that particular thought.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
              Good luck, nick. My last install was about 6 months ago, changing an XP machine to W7 (Ultimate SP1) to use a more recent version of android studio (iirc.) I didn't do any MSFT updates (yet.) I am using that same version on all my computers at present. ( I have used PCMover to avoid reinstalling all the applications with good results. ) Let me know how it goes here if you have time.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 1 month ago
    Two options: switch to Ubuntu or Linux; migrate to Apple, where OS-X is designed to operate with a Windows OS in concert (makes the transition to Apple easier). The latter is trading one "overlord" for another, but as one who's used all of the above since the first DOS machines, Apple seems to have its act together better than Microsoft.
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    • Posted by maxsilver 10 years, 1 month ago
      Apple is no better than MS when it comes to making good decisions about their OS. Even though Apple has UNIX underpinnings, they have been on the path of closing down access to it's OS to the point that is is getting difficult to use the systems as one might want to. The trend is moving toward smaller devices, less compute power and more cloud based applications. The personal computer as we know it today is going to be a thing of the past in a few years. Only developers and service providers will need the "Big Iron" to do all the back end processing. Care to guess where that will take us?

      Most embedded systems today are already some form of Unix/Linux. This may be the best reason to dump MS and Apple and get on with Linux if you expect to have any control over your anonymity in the near future.

      Even though both MS and Apple have $$$'s both are headed to the cloud and looking to be in control of the data. Apple is already basically gotten out of the PC market and is going after the cell and tablet crowd. MS is just now catching up to Apples level of User Interface but they are still stumbling around in the PC/Server world. Google and Oracle are the big players in the Cloud data space. Do you think Apple and MS can crowd them out of that space? My best guess is that Android and IOS are going to be the User Interface to the cloud and the cloud will be driven by Unix/Linux/Solaris. OS X and Windoze just won't cut it in the world of big data and Cloud Apps.

      I dumped Windoze over 5 years ago for Linux and haven't looked back. I find the Linux crowd to be open and willing to get it right. Keeping an eye on the back doors and malicious hackers is all out in the open. With the code being available to anyone wanting to know what is happening in the system we have a built in alert system for when things go awry. So if you believe Open Source is a form of socialism think twice. It is the highest form of freedom because it is something we all have to protect in order to preserve our own freedom.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 1 month ago
        Actually, Apple's PC share is growing, even though they push their tablets more aggressively. I agree that Apple is making changes to their OS-X operating system to make it more like IOS used in their iPhone and iPad. Even without the cloud, migrating data between Apple devices is effortless. I have noticed heavy marketing to push users to the cloud, but I continue to ignore them.

        It almost seems like the only way to maintain any sense of independence is to stick with Linux and use the Dark net instead of the regular internet.
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        • Posted by maxsilver 10 years, 1 month ago
          I have been delving into the world of secure communication, cryptography, cryptocurrency and P2P networking. I'm finding a lot of interesting ideas such as Ethereum (www.ethereum.org). The idea that we can conduct our business in a secure environment without the prying eyes of some oversight government agency is quite a step up in privacy. I'm hoping this will lead to decentralized money controls (such as bitcoin) and to a more crowd funding type arrangement where the social arrangement pitches in (for some reward) for purchase of real estate, business ventures and other high priced necessities. Let social contract fund the world, not the centralized banks. Centralized control of anything leads to corruption of everything under it.

          I've seen a lot of chit chat on this board as to where should Galt's Gulch be.... Well, right here in cyberspace. If, as a society, we can learn how to work through pushing any type of governmental control systems to the peripheral of an enclosed domain that would be a cyber Coup d'etat! If society is to determine it's directions, we must develop the tools to move ourselves out of the control of centralized authority and into a means of social contract where no one entity has the ultimate power to determine right or wrong. If this means moving off the public networks and into the “Enlightened Net” (Don't like Dark net... seems a bit sinister) then so be it.

          So here is my question for the group.... What would need to be done to make this happen?

          And you are right about Apple. However, it is just a larger share of a declining market! Since 2010 the tablet market has out paced both desktop and laptop markets with both laptops and desktops declining in sales.
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 1 month ago
            Pluses for promotion of cyberspace Gulch. Distributed processing and communication, with dynamic, constantly changing provider sources certainly makes government snooping more difficult. Use of public/private keyword encryption in voice communication isn't difficult, either. There's an iPhone app called Signal that makes encrypted cellphone communications painless, and it's compatible with an Android app (name escapes me at present), so the type of cellphone is no barrier.

            Bitcoin has proven problematic, with trust and fraud issues cropping up, but that seems to be getting resolved. Undoubtedly there are already creative minds working on the next better monetary exchange medium.
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            • Posted by maxsilver 10 years, 1 month ago
              Bitcoin, as with all things new, will take a little adjustment and debugging to close all the gaps and holes. By then it might even be a different animal all together. But my gut feeling is that it or something similar will succeed.

              Some enterprising folks have come up with different ways to use the block chain for verification of things other than monetary transactions which could lead to a whole different concept in how the block chain is handled which could very well lead to a better system. I'm keeping an ear to the ground on this one.
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
      With apologies for being pedantic, Ubuntu is a form of Linux, so that sentence would more correctly read: "Two options: switch to Ubuntu or similar distribution of Linux; migrate to Apple,..."
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  • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 1 month ago
    Microsoft's management seems to believe that they've reached their "ComCast moment" (as I call it) -- meaning their customer base is so bereft of alternatives that they can do whatever they like and still continue to make money. When this happens with any product, it screams to me that we need to create new competition with them.

    I wonder what new barriers to entry MS has gotten enacted. If there aren't any, then where are the better competitors?
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
      One of the main entry barriers is Microsoft's control over certain file formats, especially .docx, .xlsx, .pptx. In undergraduate degree, numerous lecturers made it mandatory to submit assignments in .docx format. People say "yeah, no problem, do it in OpenOffice and save it in .docx format". But Microsoft deliberately withhold key information about that file format, and make it very difficult to reverse engineer. I saved and submitted assignments in .docx, but when my marker opened them in Word, they looked terrible - strange paragraph spacings, distorted layout etc - and cost me a lot of marks.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 1 month ago
        You can still save in .doc and .xls, both from Microsoft Office and OpenOffice. And I've always preferred this, because it allows people using old versions of Office to read your files, too.

        There is no reason to save anything as .docx or .xlsx unless you are using features added to Office since 2007 -- and I don't even know of any, so I must not be using them.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 1 month ago
          Agreed. There is no reason you can persuade me to believe that "requires" .docx. If it works, you get the marks. What is more important, the product, or the delivery method?
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        • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
          Problem is that OpenOffice can't even save a working presentation in .ppt or .pptx which auto-plays audio on each new slide or transition. This was a requirement of my last undergraduate assignment, and it drove me nuts. I had to beg the lecturer to let me submit the presentation as a PDF with accompanying audio files. Definitely did NOT help my final grade. :(
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  • Posted by DavidRawe 10 years, 1 month ago
    There are options, but MS has made them much more difficult for people to access. Open Source is the primary option, but people are lazy and resit change. People complain but continue to use it. NO complaining unless you are willing to change my dear techno-sheeple (LOL).
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
      It's ironic we're discussing open source software here in a positive light. Especially since this is an Objectivist group, and for so many years, Microsoft and similar companies have been denigrating open source as "creeping socialism" :O
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      • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 1 month ago
        If the developer made it open source, why should anyone object?

        Jan
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        • Posted by davidmcnab 10 years, 1 month ago
          Micro$oft has objected strenuously to open source in past years, to the point of calling it a 'cancer' which will 'infect' everyone's intellectual property and destroy their ownership.

          Personally, I love open source since it reduces market friction and helps create a much more efficient economy
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          • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 1 month ago
            While I like the MS OS (though, don't like the Win10 campaign), that company pays more than a token allegiance to the liberal causes. So you have a capitalist mega-corp that supports liberal philosophy and dislikes open source.

            Maybe a bit confused?

            Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 1 month ago
    of course it's worked so far why change a trillion dollar business plan in midstream.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 1 month ago
      Well, I am not so sure that that will fly too far, seems that may have some anti trust issues with it, and I am also betting the EU hauls their asses in and fines them a billion or so for unfair trade practices.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 1 month ago
        It will be the first time since the predecessors of Mozilla lost that bet. They are not antitrust which is why they bailed out Apple. All they are saying now is we won't support anything but Version Ten if a hardware manufacturer wants a license. Europe is perfectly free to use Linus or it's derivatives.

        So no anti trust is involved asnd Europe has no control over them. It's that same world court crap and meaningless.

        What they will continue is the get it on the market and fix it later business model. Same one used for 30 years. With billions to spend how far do you think they will be hassled this time.

        They are dealing from a position of strength to a weak paid for government that Trump only wishes he could afford to buy in the time honored way instead of buying votes as he is doing now.

        Welcome to fascist America where Constitutution is but a fast dimming memory.

        Obama will soon collect h is share of the deal. And the next one after that be it Comrade Cruz,Comrade Hillary Comrade Bernie or whoever. Most of the country is too f'n stupid and will hand them more nails to secure the coffin. Socialst Left or Socialist right is still a left wing Government Party.

        You will lose that bet ...better off buying lotto tickets.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 10 years, 1 month ago
    I recently purchased a new machine for my daughter and replaced Win 10 with Ubuntu before she opened the box. She was 3 weeks in and comfortable with Ubuntu before she realized it wasn't Windows. She thought that I had "customized" it for her. I did have to sign up for Office 365 so that she had access to the regular Office suite for school stuff.

    You can download Ubuntu here: http://www.ubuntu.com/download

    It was not real easy to get rid of Win 10 but with a bit of effort it happened.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 1 month ago
      I thought Open Office was completely compatible with windows files. Luckily, we get Office for an employee price so I occasionally upgrade. I am still using 2007 on my work computer and just received hate mail from IT I have to go to 2013. Office is just as bad as any other MS stuff for issues, I still have 3 or 4 different XL file formats now, and each does weird stuff the other doesn't depending on version. I wonder if Ubuntu can run Star Citizens Launcher, they haven't detailed any specifics on it.Good job at avoiding the beast...
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 1 month ago
    MS latest present is their WhatsApp requires V10. Which means I garbagte can WhatsApp. Their latest unwanted fix that was installed anyway screwed up all my audio and video players. Why ow why could those ragheads not crashed into the MS Campus and done some good.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 1 month ago
    What it might be time for, is a Free Hardware Movement and License, to parallel those for software. If Benjamin Franklin were alive today, he'd found it, for the same reasons Richard Stallman founded GNU.
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  • Posted by paris1 10 years, 1 month ago
    Anti trust, eh? And this on a web site that celebrates the ideal of Ayn Rand?!
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    • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 1 month ago
      The original poster really wants to know how to deal with rent-seeking behavior. I haven't seen any Objectivistic analysis that even recognizes rent-seeking as an evil.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago
        the monopolistic angle is paris1's concern, and the old
        anti-trust or trustbuster stuff from the late 1800s and
        early 1900s is the reference, don't you think? -- j
        .
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        • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 1 month ago
          It is. What a lot of people are missing is: how much of this does the government facilitate, directly or indirectly? That is, does the government make it any easier to form a true "company" than it was, in AS, for Midas Mulligan and Hugh Akston to form a "company" to grow tobacco, roll cigarettes, etc.?
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          • Posted by $ 10 years, 1 month ago
            Government today acts as a toll collector for any startup, and part of it is to make you belive you need their money (our money they took) to get you going, and if you fail..so what? It's only money.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 1 month ago
      I don't recall Rand ever speaking about monopoly or cartels. AS does have antitrust laws, including one to prevent "vertical integration" such as the deal Rearden tries to make with his supplier after he's forced to divest that part of his business; but the gist I got from AS is not that such deals are good or bad, but that you can never rely upon your trading partner performing as he should in a deal like that.

      The economic term rent-seeking was coined in the '60s, after AS was written, so I don't know of any Objectivist work that refers to it; and I'm not sure it applies here. Friedman wrote a good description of it.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 10 years, 1 month ago
        "The Antitrust laws—an unenforceable, uncompliable, unjudicable mess of contradictions—have for decades kept American businessmen under a silent, growing reign of terror." - Ayn Rand, Choose Your Issues.
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        • Posted by ewv 10 years, 1 month ago
          The beginning of a major article on the subject of antitrust:

          Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal Ch 3. "America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business"

          "If I were asked to choose the date which marks the turning point on the road to the ultimate destruction of American industry, and the most infamous piece of legislation in American history, I would choose the year 1890 and the Sherman Act—which began that grotesque, irrational, malignant growth of unenforceable, uncompliable, unjudicable contradictions known as the antitrust laws.

          "Under the antitrust laws, a man becomes a criminal from the moment he goes into business, no matter what he does. If he complies with one of these laws, he faces criminal prosecution under several others. For instance, if he charges prices which some bureaucrats judge as too high, he can be prose-cured for monopoly, or, rather, for a successful 'intent to monopolize'; if he charges prices lower than those of his competitors, he can be prosecuted for 'unfair competition' or 'restraint of trade'; and if he charges the same prices as his competitors, he can be prosecuted for 'collusion' or 'conspiracy.'

          "I recommend to your attention an excellent book entitled The Antitrust Laws of the U.S.A. by A. D. Neale..."

          - and specifically on monopoly as a threat only when enforced by government:

          Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal Ch 7 "Notes On The History Of American Free Enterprise"

          From the very first issue of The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 1 & No. 2 January and February, 1962 "Check Your Premises -- Antitrust: the Rule of Unreason" in addition to "Choose Your Issues"

          "They seem to be a double move planned by the statists, one to destroy intellectual freedom, the other to destroy economic freedom. The chief means to the first is the Federal Communications Commission, to the second—the Anti-Trust laws..."

          Opposition to anti trust laws is also discussed as a major theme in:

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 3 March, 1962 "Check Your Premises -- Have Gun, Will Nudge"

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 4 April, 1962 "BOOKS: Ten Thousand Commandments by Harold Fleming"

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 5 May, 1962 "Check Your Premises -- Who Will Protect Us from Our Protectors?"

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 2 No. 7 July, 1963 "Check Your Premises -- Vast Quicksands"

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 2 No. 8 August, 1963 "BOOKS: The Language of Dissent, by Lowell B. Mason"

          The Objectivist Newsletter Vol. 3 No. 5 May, 1964 "Intellectual Ammunition Department - What is the Objectivist position in regard to patents and copyrights?"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. 1, No. 3 November 8, 1971 "The Moratorium On Brains"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. 1, No. 23 August 14, 1972 "A Preview"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. 1, No. 26 September 25, 1972 "How To Read (And Not To Write)"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. II, No. 23 August 13, 1973 "Censorship: Local And Express"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. III, No. 4 November 19, 1973 "The Energy Crisis"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. III, No. 11 February 25, 1974 "Ideas V. Goods"

          The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. III, No. 15 April 22, 1974 "Ideas V. Men"

          Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal Ch 11 "Patents And Copyrights"

          Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal Ch 15 "Is Atlas Shrugging?"

          Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal Ch 20 "The New Fascism: Rule By Consensus"

          The Art of Nonfiction Ch 3 "Judging One's Audience"

          The Ayn Rand Column "Progress or Sacrifice" July 1, 1962

          The Ayn Rand Column "The Cold Civil War" July 22, 1962

          The Ayn Rand Column "Government by Intimidation" July 29, 1962

          (Some of the articles were later republished in anthologies other than Capitalism.)
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