Neumann, Alfred T.
Gremlin, Frederick T III
Snoman, Frazier, T.
Louis, Louie, NMI
Thang, Wilder T.

and we had the dog tags to prove it.

The military is the biggest collective in existence. If it was any other way it wouldn't be the military. There are certain things that are allowed and encouraged if captured The rule is hold out for 24 hours or longer. Gives the home team time to change comunications codes and operating instrutions and battle plans to be changed depending on how much you know. It's a given everyone with zero exceptions can be broken. That's why some of our units go through training inludiing SERE Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape. One technique which was a killer in efficiency could be stopped by slapping your hand either one on the table. The weak sisters now are up in arms meaning the ones attached they are too weak for real weapons called these days water boarding. In POW camps we went through a modified regime of sleep deprivation and other fun stuff liked being chained to tree growing in the middle of the Peoples Pool. May have been Florida but it was also winter. Our leadership in camp got people out by digging a tunnel from the two holder pit another was a diversion where some went over the wire and made the tree line. My job was to feign stealing a vehicle and busting out through the outer perimeter gates. How realistic? By the time we got to those activities I was in for a mandatory shrink visit. He ended up tied up and gagged for real..I had his car keys - a pickup - and when the main effort occured I drove out the gate to a rally point. the reward was 24 hours of sleep with showers etc. and then back inside. The shrink that I had gone round the bend. That was one of the first SERE exercises put to gether by real live POWs. Thing is even or more especially nside we became a whole. Last night about 4AM was a formation for hea count. Instead we were lined behind bags of our real clothes the lights went on tables of food and then the flag went up. No one moves but one guy muttereed. Another fucking commie trick. No one moved a muscle. They had to convince us the training was over. The big diversion was capturing some inside the fence guards and that was answered by mock machine gunning everyone. including the guards. Good soldiers are never wasted on POW camps they are expendable. Trouble was I forgot where I parked the pick up.

Anyone could quit at any time. No problem. Next stop back to Bragg and reassignment to the 82nd . A fate worse than hillary getting elected.

We lost five percent or a bit more of our unit. They were never allowed back.

All to buy 24 hours. But you did it for your fellow soldiers not for God, Country, Americans, or the flag. We did for our equals.

Only comment at the end. Why didyou wait until after Vienam to give the training?

Answer. Didn't know what to train. But the planning started in the middle of that conflict.

We built a better unit. and made ourselves into better soldiers and human beings. Our unit was different in that respect. Much different.

i would rather doubt those sailors had any idea what they had gotten into. No one tells a snipe or deck hand nuttin from nuttin' They are in a word...expendable.

More than opinion as long as it's withing the ROE etc. that's exactly how you put people if not face down but on the knees after a while makes it hard to move or move fast....easier to handcuff and control. the whole idea is control the situation using if you are police LEAST amount of force necessary. that includes whatever until the cuffs and zipties go on. then the least needed lowers. The most ridiculous statement you hear from someone is "don't touch me take your hands off me." Sure sign the doer is two slices short of a loaf. The neat thing is if they keep yammering on theyare digging their own grave. Invariably even with warnings given they will let something slip out of bravado. Recorders are a wonderful thing. Most good arrests involve a fair amount of stupidity. What I don't know about is facing a full size mob without a pepper fogger or triple chasers or inciters trained for it but the biggest mob I stopped was one infantry battalion but that's another story.

50 50 the military will look for a scapegoat who is a. not from a trade school and b. who has no rabbi. and c. what level they are trying to protect. A good chunk of the military is in 100% CYA mode to keep some upper levels from destroying their careers while expecting the lower ranks to lie, cheat, steal, and take the blame. Did all of the crew have a complete SOFA/ROE briefing? Really? Witnesses or just some piece of paper with a coerced signature? This same group of careerists will NOT uphold their oath of office. There is a reason we combat soldiers called them REMFs.

Rear Echelon Mother Feathers.

Which doesn't mean all are bad. But the public trusts the politicians who trust the REMFs in one big ass kissing CYA framework and that is one reason public has lost it's country and why combat soldiers wonder why? And wonder if they are worth the effort. The reminder is we never swore allegiance to citizens or country or Presidents. Only to the Constitution.

Rules of engagement. Status of Forces agreement. and law of mass. Frigates out vote small boats. AKA Law of relative proportions. All sail boat sailors know it as why sail does NOT have right of way. The educated sail boat sailors know they are 8th sometimes ninth ont he list for priorities of right of way. These guys were out tonnaged and out gunned and hampered by whatever rules were in force. Then there is the question of the mission statement. Another bag of worms and snakes at times.