Stationary LOTS, on the run 500 rounds of 22 Magnum and all you can carry from the dead people you will encounter. 9 mm is the military standard, plenty of ammo, 40 mm police carry this. Just wait until most of the dying is done and just collect it then.
Part of the increase in prices for ammo (especially .22 LR) is because the US (thanks to the EPA) no longer has any primary lead smelters. The last one was shut down earlier this year. The smelters we have left are secondary ones that take lead bullion and break that down. It's gun control via the backdoor.
They're also trying to restrict access to many of the other materials used in ammunition manufacturing. They already have a lock on steel and force companies to have a license for powder.
If you stay practiced with your firearms, you probably go through 1000 rounds a year easy. I know I can blow that much when I take my kids out to the range. I also buy in bulk (500 or 1000 rounds at a time) except for the expensive personal defense ammo.
Everyone else covered that quite thoroughly. My only standard is there is nothing quite so useless as an unloaded weapon. I'll give a graphic example.
Standard load for US Army Infantry in the 1970's was one magazine 20 rounds locked in the weapon and six magazines on the pistol belt of the web harness 7 x 20 = 140. Minus one round per magazine to keep the spring from weakening but the bullets went in some pocket
Bandoleers of stripper clips were 7 x two of ten rounds each. or 140.
We changed form M14 most semiautomatic to M16 with full automatic capability and then to the 30 round magazine four or 120 plus 30 for one in the weapon for 150. minus one or even two to save the spring.
Here's the real load out.
As many magazines as could be scrounged. the bandoleers carrying 20 round magazine in each of their pockets except two those carried grenades. Two of those crisscrossed under the web gear and over the shirt. That added 10 of the 20 round magazines or sometimes twelve depending on personal preference so let's call it 12 x 19 208 extra rounds total now 358 ready to go. In the rucksack two extra bandoleers for 280 more. never less than one extra.
Why? Supply systems could not show up like magic helicopters or no helicopters due to a number of factors. weather, availability of aircraft, need for suppression of incoming not friendly fire.
Rate of fire of was too often one Mad Minute at full auto as fire suppression and superiority coupled with a fair amount of adrenaline took control. Look up the statistics on rounds to make one kill. That will put you in shock.
Point is an empty weapon is just a really poorly designed club.
Translate to the Oregon type of situation. One side can literally fire until their weapon barrels melt and then pick up a fresh weapon. One side cannot.
Taking and holding ground is a symbolic statement but not a useful technique for being around to explain the symbolism.
And that's not counting the Jackboot Janet Von Flamethrower solution of fuck 'em burn everyone and let God sort them out. Ask the children of the Waco incident. But it suits a certain fascist mentality. No brain power there. All they needed to do to remove the leadership was have the local gun dealer call up and say "got a new shipment you might be interested in examining."
Those agents if that's what you want to call them are all gone and retired. But their deeds live in infamy.
One wonders how Obama will or worse a revival of Clintonism would handle the situation. And it may be those folks are doing exactly that ...letting the government make the statement for them. A demonstration of fascism as just signed into law by the President instead of law enforcement as used to be required when we had a Constitution...and a Bill of Rights.
You seriously contemplating voting for the left again?
Thanks for all the details, MichaelA. Will probably have other questions after I digest it a bit. Please let me know what factors you consider on how many rounds.
Police are well aware of non uniforms for one good reason. Most detectives are plain clothes. Most police however are like most military people. They have never experienced two way live fire exercises. That goes back to a proper and 'often' training regimen.
First thing is don't be a collector bring the requirements down to specific needs. for Example. .22 cal in Short, Long, and Long Rifle. If you have opted for a (legal) sound suppressor for your .22 caliber rifle or pistol that leaves out revolvers and leaves out .22 Long Rife. Like any other caliber the bullet must be subsonic.Two ways to make sound plus one. The initial explosive force, the sonic boom of a a bullet breaking the sound barrier, and the mechanical action. In readily available ammunition .22 and .45 caliber most often meet those standards. A .45 caliber comes also in .45/.22 with interchangeable barrels. reducing the amount of weapons needed once again. BUT it depends where in the world you are located. Much of the world is enamoured for strange reasons with 9 mm. and that caliber is dependent on bullet type to be of any use. Life is not crap rap and being a poseur. 115 grain semi jacketed hollow points make it somewhat acceptable. Military ammunition means enough on hand to spray each target with multiple hits none of which can be at body armor. The price you pay for going hollywood and leaving real life behind. In North America I opt for the .45/.22 Long Slide and long extended barrel with a .45 concealed carry version such as the ASP. Snake shot also an option but Glaser Safety slugs actually a mini propelled grenade is a worthy choice.
Revolvers come into play with the higher more powerful calibers and cartridge loads. The actions with a long barrel can take the punishment after that it's a question of can your hand take the punishment. 8 3/8" barrel in .357 one of the .38 family and the compromise is a .38 Plus P round. 225 grain SJHP. The .44 magnum pistol hosted for tunnel rat purposes at one time a suppressed cartridge using an internal piston but with acceptable reduced range and stopping power. Who makes that round these days? No one I know about. that brings us to other pistol cartridges and without the need for sound suppression and with the need for suitable munition supply that means no less than .40 or 10 mm
Best compromise for a single small gun? .45/.22 combination.
the best alternative ever made was the M1 carbine of WWII/Korea fame. A hot pistol cartridge with a much longer barrel on a small stock . Improved range and accuracy but still in the realm of pistols. which brings us to long barrel weapons.
Shotgun? 12 gauge with #4 Buck at 27pellets in .17 caliber vs a 00B's 9 pellets in .22 caliber. My old Topper had interchangeable barrels with .410 but was a single shot break action. Since we're not talking gamebirds and can add slug rounds the actions other than Browning SA are side and double barrel. A slide mechanism can be combat loaded by turning it upside down (left hand and inserting into the tube while one round is still chambered with right hand. Safety switch should be on. Medium ranges and pellets can be bounced off any hard surface and will pick up secondary projectiles aim point is half way between target and shooter to gain the proper angle of fire. Assuming a hard enough surface it works for going around corners too.
Long barreled rifled weapons. Whatever fits the neighborhood. Semi automatic versions of military rifles are sort of red flags... Standard area hunting weapons don't cause much int he way of excitement unless your talking .577 or .600 Nitro Express elephant guns. Scopes no big deal but laser dots are. Most common is a Model 94 Winchester lever action in .30-30. Medium range brush gun or similar. One .22 rifle and one other for distance shooting.
Your reload needs are now potentially cut to .45 pistol and/or .38./.357 revolver, 12 gauge and perhaps .410 shotgun,and two rifle calibers six in total.
For the .45/.22 get extra barrels. and firing pins.
Back to sound suppression. The weapon firing sound gives a straight direction to location. The sonic boom of the bullet makes a 45 degrees to each side sound print. Others tend to to look to the shooters right or left depending which ear picked up the sound of the bullet passing by. No extra charge for the physics lesson.
Love rugby. We tried to get a side started in New London CT, but failed to get numbers. We practiced and drank a lot though! Difficult to find a team now, without traveling all the time. I'm sticking with soccer and judo for now. Lot less injury, oddly enough pretty much none my whole life from judo.
When I was in NZ, a friend from the UK suggested we watch a televised NFL game together. Fortunately, there was also some beer. I decided to entertain myself by using a stopwatch to time the actual amount of time that there was active play. iirc, it was about 39 minutes during the 3 hours elapsed time. I learned to enjoy watching rugby and Aussie rules football. Much more stamina, conditioning, and action (in the players, not me;^).
Totally agree. I used to play a men's pickup game Sunday mornings in my 20s and 30s...sprint-1 : stand-3, and the retired high school football stars were the laziest of all. Soccer, rugby and ultimate frisbee guys were the most reliable. However, smashing people on the line is a pile of fun!
You are exactly correct! In the scene you describe, the people with me and those around me are my immediate concern and when police arrive, it's best to follow their instructions to the "t". The situation I described in which I said "I'm in", that would be if and only I were asked or an officer was in need of assistance, I would (at least I hope) assist without hesitation. To think of it, if we were under such attack, I would hope we all say "I'm in."
I meant my ability to accomplish things. Although, I was pretty good at racquetball. It was a time of expansion for us. A new location with 2.5 times the space and working our butts off to create a viable enterprise..
I agree. Sometimes the best way is to limit the different calibers you shoot. I have way to many for most people. 10k rounds is not unusual. When you go to Wallmart or wherever you buy ammo, just pick up a box or two or three every month and you will be surprised out how much ammo that adds up over time. Date your boxes and rotate your stock. If you shoot or train on a regular basis, the more ammo you can have the better.
The rule that I follow for my ammo needs is 1000 rounds for each gun that I own. Except for for my .22s for which I stock 10k for each gun. More over I been playing with making Black powder for awhile now to feed my old smoke sticks. I really need to get into reloading as I would hate only be able to use my BP toys.
You can never have enough Ammo. Just rotate your stock and use moisture absorbing packets so it will store longer. Also, keep your ammo in a safe place. I keep mine in a separate gun safe. I know people that generally try and keep 3000 rnds per gun regardless of caliber. Practice, practice, practice...Keep your powder dry!
I think the cops, in that situation, would probably shoot anybody who's not a cop with a gun in their hand. Just a thought. Using a firearm is a last resort, as I'm sure you know, too. I just see situations like if I take my kids to a movie theater or shopping mall and the place gets hit with the followers of the religion of peace. Even if you're well-armed, you'd have to be strategic in your moves. Hide in a place they don't expect you to be. If they get too close for comfort, let em have it. If at all possible, run for it ASAP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g31od...
They're also trying to restrict access to many of the other materials used in ammunition manufacturing. They already have a lock on steel and force companies to have a license for powder.
Standard load for US Army Infantry in the 1970's was one magazine 20 rounds locked in the weapon and six magazines on the pistol belt of the web harness 7 x 20 = 140. Minus one round per magazine to keep the spring from weakening but the bullets went in some pocket
Bandoleers of stripper clips were 7 x two of ten rounds each. or 140.
We changed form M14 most semiautomatic to M16 with full automatic capability and then to the 30 round magazine four or 120 plus 30 for one in the weapon for 150. minus one or even two to save the spring.
Here's the real load out.
As many magazines as could be scrounged. the bandoleers carrying 20 round magazine in each of their pockets except two those carried grenades. Two of those crisscrossed under the web gear and over the shirt. That added 10 of the 20 round magazines or sometimes twelve depending on personal preference so let's call it 12 x 19 208 extra rounds total now 358 ready to go. In the rucksack two extra bandoleers for 280 more. never less than one extra.
Why? Supply systems could not show up like magic helicopters or no helicopters due to a number of factors. weather, availability of aircraft, need for suppression of incoming not friendly fire.
Rate of fire of was too often one Mad Minute at full auto as fire suppression and superiority coupled with a fair amount of adrenaline took control. Look up the statistics on rounds to make one kill. That will put you in shock.
Point is an empty weapon is just a really poorly designed club.
Translate to the Oregon type of situation. One side can literally fire until their weapon barrels melt and then pick up a fresh weapon. One side cannot.
Taking and holding ground is a symbolic statement but not a useful technique for being around to explain the symbolism.
And that's not counting the Jackboot Janet Von Flamethrower solution of fuck 'em burn everyone and let God sort them out. Ask the children of the Waco incident. But it suits a certain fascist mentality. No brain power there. All they needed to do to remove the leadership was have the local gun dealer call up and say "got a new shipment you might be interested in examining."
Those agents if that's what you want to call them are all gone and retired. But their deeds live in infamy.
One wonders how Obama will or worse a revival of Clintonism would handle the situation. And it may be those folks are doing exactly that ...letting the government make the statement for them. A demonstration of fascism as just signed into law by the President instead of law enforcement as used to be required when we had a Constitution...and a Bill of Rights.
You seriously contemplating voting for the left again?
Revolvers come into play with the higher more powerful calibers and cartridge loads. The actions with a long barrel can take the punishment after that it's a question of can your hand take the punishment. 8 3/8" barrel in .357 one of the .38 family and the compromise is a .38 Plus P round. 225 grain SJHP. The .44 magnum pistol hosted for tunnel rat purposes at one time a suppressed cartridge using an internal piston but with acceptable reduced range and stopping power. Who makes that round these days? No one I know about. that brings us to other pistol cartridges and without the need for sound suppression and with the need for suitable munition supply that means no less than .40 or 10 mm
Best compromise for a single small gun? .45/.22 combination.
the best alternative ever made was the M1 carbine of WWII/Korea fame. A hot pistol cartridge with a much longer barrel on a small stock . Improved range and accuracy but still in the realm of pistols. which brings us to long barrel weapons.
Shotgun? 12 gauge with #4 Buck at 27pellets in .17 caliber vs a 00B's 9 pellets in .22 caliber. My old Topper had interchangeable barrels with .410 but was a single shot break action. Since we're not talking gamebirds and can add slug rounds the actions other than Browning SA are side and double barrel. A slide mechanism can be combat loaded by turning it upside down (left hand and inserting into the tube while one round is still chambered with right hand. Safety switch should be on. Medium ranges and pellets can be bounced off any hard surface and will pick up secondary projectiles aim point is half way between target and shooter to gain the proper angle of fire. Assuming a hard enough surface it works for going around corners too.
Long barreled rifled weapons. Whatever fits the neighborhood. Semi automatic versions of military rifles are sort of red flags... Standard area hunting weapons don't cause much int he way of excitement unless your talking .577 or .600 Nitro Express elephant guns. Scopes no big deal but laser dots are. Most common is a Model 94 Winchester lever action in .30-30. Medium range brush gun or similar. One .22 rifle and one other for distance shooting.
Your reload needs are now potentially cut to .45 pistol and/or .38./.357 revolver, 12 gauge and perhaps .410 shotgun,and two rifle calibers six in total.
For the .45/.22 get extra barrels. and firing pins.
Back to sound suppression. The weapon firing sound gives a straight direction to location. The sonic boom of the bullet makes a 45 degrees to each side sound print. Others tend to to look to the shooters right or left depending which ear picked up the sound of the bullet passing by. No extra charge for the physics lesson.
.
To think of it, if we were under such attack, I would hope we all say "I'm in."
(grin)
I really need to get into reloading as I would hate only be able to use my BP toys.
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