Patriot Militia Seizes Federal Complex in Oregon; Armed Insurrection Against federal Tyranny Begins
This need to be known and spread before people end up murdered by government. Tyranny
- Hot
- New
- Categories...
- Producer's Lounge
- Producer's Vault
- The Gulch: Live! (New)
- Ask the Gulch!
- Going Galt
- Books
- Business
- Classifieds
- Culture
- Economics
- Education
- Entertainment
- Government
- History
- Humor
- Legislation
- Movies
- News
- Philosophy
- Pics
- Politics
- Science
- Technology
- Video
- The Gulch: Best of
- The Gulch: Bugs
- The Gulch: Feature Requests
- The Gulch: Featured Producers
- The Gulch: General
- The Gulch: Introductions
- The Gulch: Local
- The Gulch: Promotions
- Marketplace
- Members
- Store
- More...
ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE EVIL
I just saw the protester's current spokesman on Fox and he is quite knowledgeable and articulate.
I have listened to and heard both sides of the debate, and this is a highly volatile situation that will only be peacefully resolved by dialogue. At this point the local sheriff in Burns is siding with the Feds (which probably makes sense given the situation) but the protestors are feeling betrayed by him.
I do think this is an important point in our history, and locally, in the politically blended community where I live, there is very strong emotion on each side, with many who support the government's position vocally calling for the "extermination" of the protestors. I do not think this will end well.
I think it is possible that this could be a PR disaster if the right issues are not made the focus of attention. That is why I wrote a post on point, and copied it onto the Gulch.
I'll give you his stock answer for free. The DeVIL made me do it!!! The devil's a conservative!!! Flip that.
BLM hasn't proven themselves to be as kind and gentle as the BATF and FBI yet. I say close them all down before they prove to be worse.
If that was true, she would have been executed.
So, the following year, with cheat grass even thicker as fuel load, this rancher defied the mandates and ran the cows out on permitted range land while the cheat grass was still green. The Feds went after him big time, a court case went all the way to the Supreme Court challenging federal jurisdiction. Th Ninth Circuit of course ruled against him, and then the Supreme Court turned the case away with no explanation. He spent several years in house arrest with ankle bracelet on. He is now currently advising the Hammond's and Harney County Sheriff Ward in this matter.
He experienced similar shenanigans with water rights with a nearby wildlife refuge. The Nature Conservancy was caught altering property boundaries of the refuge and his property.
I don't see any of that having anything at all to do with justice. That's a life sentence for the 74 yr old father, and it's a 'nail in the coffin' of individual freedom and rights of man.
Even in this case in eastern Oregon there is a lot more to it than Ammond Bundy occupying a public parking lot and empty government building at the wildlife refuge. The general protest there had nothing to do with that and neither do the Hammonds.
The media reports are misleading the public about a severe problem that is not being reported. This is about the government railroading of the Hammonds in a long process of harassment and intimidation, not the Bundy protest. The Hammonds, who have nothing to do with the Bundy tactics, were accused and are being irrationally punished under an 'anti-terrorism law' that is completely irrelevant to them. Leaping to denouncing and/or ignoring them because of one splinter group in a protest only supports the government travesty.
The group at the government wildlife refuge cannot accomplish its goals by the means it has chosen, and those activists are being exploited to divert public attention away from the real problem, but even that group is being misrepresented as some kind of crazies in a "militia" looking for trouble. It isn't true.
When the government keeps pushing people with abuse it is inevitable that some people are going to be pushed over the edge into an impractical lashing out in frustration. Everyone has his limits. This is not a matter of a group of 'domestic terrorists' looking for excuses to perpetrate violence.
Watch this very sad video of Jon Ritzheimer, a veteran who is part of the Bundy group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...
The left is smearing him -- and the Hammonds -- for it. Decent people can only sympathize with him and wish there were some way to help him, beginning by talking him out of his current futile and dangerous tactics.
Ritzheimer is no "terrorist" or religious fanatic engaged in suicide bombing for "God is great", blowing up abortion clinics, or randomly "anti-government" as an inherent motive. He is distraught with despair in defense of strong personal values and doesn't know where to turn, hoping that a "standoff" will finally bring public attention to travesties being ignored. Trying to take on the government with guns will not solve this problem or any of the others we have, and at worst will only get more innocent people hurt, beginning with themselves, but look at the cause and don't drop context.
The kind of battles in this country today rarely occur along clean lines like a "Britain against Hitler". They are complex and politically mixed, involving people with mixed premises and choices made to employ controversial tactics of all kinds, some of which we disagree with and reject. That complexity is the reality in this war against statism, and we cannot wait for a "pure case" before daring to speak out, while people fighting the same battle in different ways are exploited with a 'divide and conquer' strategy to smear and discredit anyone who dares to speak against the government abuse.
The answer is not to side with establishment smears burying the problems in distractions and evasions, while we leap to denounce those who are most frustrated and unable to cope with it as we ignore the essence, its causes, the victims, and everyone else protesting it in different ways we don't approve of ourselves.
John Locke
I would say the above quote clearly applies to the Hammonds. Let's not be confused, the government was he one who initiated force here.
If standing up is counter productive and sitting down offers nothing but servitude, what should citizens do when faced with unlawful government coercion using imprisonment, fines, etc.?
And popular support--no chance. Some 80% of the population lives on the coastal edges of the country and have absolutely no concept of the lives of those Westerners and even resent them.
It's fueled by the constant propaganda of ideological preservationist pressure groups promoting scenic imagery with carefully crafted photography and semi-poetic rhetoric to emotionally manipulate the public for political support -- with no mention of the onerous coercive land takings, restrictions and land use prohibitions. The preservationists pressure groups in general are extraordinarily wealthy, politically connected elitists, and appeal to the gullible and to their collaborators inside the media. They work their insider connections with politicians and agency officials to maneuver in the dark exploiting enormous power -- all against people who have very little, no access to the media, often have no idea of what is being done to them and why until it is too late, and no way to fight back. It isn't just ranchers, it affects all natural resource industries and use of private property with private homes, businesses, farming, logging, mining and fishing.
This is how people like Ammond Bundy are pushed over the edge, lashing out in dangerous and completely impractical actions. They feel trapped with no where to turn and are besides themselves over the injustices they have seen for years -- such as the current travesty against the Hammonds in eastern Oregon -- and which no one pays attention to, let alone stops. The government abuse of the Hammonds by BLM, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, Obama lawyers and viro pressure groups has been going on for many years and only now is it being paid attention to in the media -- after the Hammonds have been railroaded into prison with no recourse and the equivalent of a death sentence for the 74 year old father, and still mostly over sensationalist reporting mischaracterizing it as an inherently violent "Militia" taking over government buildings. The frustration becomes personally overwhelming especially as the media mischaracterizes and whitewashes the problem when it bothers to say anything at all. The perpetrators are very lucky that their victims in this country are so unusually civilized and there aren't more explosions striking back at them.
The next time you see a glowing article about "saving" some scenic area -- anywhere in the country -- ask yourself who is being shafted this time, and remember that it isn't an isolated fluke case. It happens all the time.
Organizations like the Pacific Legal Foundation and the Mountain States Legal Foundation (Perry Pendley) have been fighting the abuse for decades, and sometimes win, setting important precedents blocking at least some kinds of government abuse. A small group of Congressman have been fighting legislation in Washington as well (mostly Republicans). The American Land Rights Association has been very active in both legislation and grass roots action stopping travesties for years (and has been fighting for the Hammonds for years). Considering what all of us are up against it is amazing that anyone has held as much back as they have in preventing the situation from being much worse than it already is, but it in my experience the situation is deteriorating over time.
It is becoming worse for the same reason everything else has becoming worse in politics as Pragmatism, collectivism, statism and the viros progressively influence and dominate in the culture and in government. It is still possible for individuals to "win" some of these battles, but only at enormous personal and financial cost, and you never "win" anything -- when you "win" you only get to keep what you already had, or some of it, at enormous cost, and it's only a matter of time before they come back for the rest.
Did she get confirmed yet? Congress ought to remember this is an election year and ask the Supreme Court to order BLM off of State lands and pay reparations to the state, county, towns and private land owners for 'interfering with interstate commerce and what else? Oh yes 9th and 10th amendment violations. and full faith and credit violations.'
BLM has always been a bunch of National Socialist types. Trump will feel right at home.
they came after the farmers, but I wasn't a farmer;;; then,
they came after the small business owners, but I wasn't one;;;
then ......... then, they came after me !!! -- j
.
Ranchers and farmers get shafted by Big Brother worse than the rest of us.
Want left alone by outsiders yet the Bundy gang disrespect both the Hammonds and the citizens.
Right on cue a manufactured incident changes into a manufactured crisis.
One of the early reports said the occupiers were from out of state 'militia' organizations. Couple of interviews and the actual leadership refuted any connection with the occupying people.
Notice the beards etc?
How do we know other than the 'word' of the government these are what they are claimed to be adding in the mass, on cue, hysteria of the liberal media. Fact is we don't.
But it sure looks...just a tiny bit curious given the back ground of some of the agencies involved.
What's to prevent a lot of gun fire a few explosions, maybe one building torched and the militia disappears. Under the new act signed lat New Years eve the government has the power to do exactly that.
I've never been a conspiracy theorists and most of it including the Trade Towers is BS but ...then again....as my kid said watching the 25th anniversary of the JFK assassination -' when the y open those documents how do we know they are real?'
if an eight year old can figure it out .....well....I'll come down on the side of not supporting terrorists if any one can tell me who they are? Draw your own conclusions but the sad part is the theory is just as believable as anything I've heard or read and the track records of the component parts are historical record;.
Oh what a wicked web they wove when first their stories did unfold and bravely scampered for other spaces denying denying any traces of appearances of improprieties when first they practiced to deceive.
Yes it is tyranny. The problem is that the government has perfected the divide and conquer long game. They will continue to persecute small groups one by one, but never too many simultaneously. It is just something on the news to most folks until it is their ox that is being gored.
I wonder if/when they will falter and start a revolution. I believe it to be true that revolutions are instigated by government malfeasance. One does not start from the grass roots when the public has no grievance. "Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Thomas Jefferson
The oppression must be severe and affect enough of the populace at any given time to overcome their complacency.
Yes, we must spread the word and shake off the complacency.
Regards,
O.A.