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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I mean to imply that we set ourselves apart from
    the other ("lower") animals for all sorts of things like
    natural rights and freedoms and the like. . we don't
    allow chimps to own land, for example. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not comfortable with your use of 'set apart' or 'valued higher'. Both imply something or somebody that sets us apart or values us higher. We are what we are and the rest of life, that we're aware of, is what it is. There's no apartness or valuing. There is simply existence qua existence.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    then I understand that we humans are set apart for
    respect and value because we have the potential to
    use rational, logical reasoning ... whether we do that
    or not. . we are valued higher than the other animals
    because of our potential? -- j
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    yes, and it is intriguing to me that there is such a large
    developmental "distance" between humankind and the
    next adjacent intelligent animals -- humans must have
    eradicated the competition so thoroughly and quickly
    that there are very few of the "missing link" available
    for archaeologists to find. . will consult jlc on this. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, we look at reality and subject the perceptions to rational, logical reasoning.
    The animal is also rational in that it is connected to it's reality through it's perceptions and instincts, but it lacks the ability to develop or apply logic and reason or to escape it's instinctual reactions. That does not describe all 'homo saps', by the way. I only apply that description to fully developed Objectivists.

    Though some of that is subject to question with Crows, Ravens, Orangutans, and Bonobos. But undoubtedly, their levels of reason are on the levels of our children and I seriously doubt a developed logic or a self-developed ability to over-ride instinctual reactions.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Drinking to excess?? Is that like the old T-shirt logo (paraphrased):
    "Someone said I had an Alcohol problem
    I Drink--Then I Drink More.
    I Fall Down, Then Get Up And Drink Some More
    What Problem?"
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 5 months ago
    Man has a conceptual faculty. And he has a sort
    of a soul; it is his free will to focus his mind on what is before him, or not.(Once the decision is
    made, it does not stay made; to be applied con-
    sistently, it must be made constantly). That may
    be an electric charge in the brain, or something
    like that; but I don't think it can be a whole per-
    sonality by itself, independently of a body; a
    free choice, hanging there in space, with no
    choices to make and no standards by which to
    make any, would be a contradiction. But this
    conceptual faculty, united with a free will, makes
    man superior to other animals.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    but don't we hang our homo sap preeminence on rationality?
    otherwise, we're just tricky animals. -- j
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago
    Humans can chop a bole or eat soup from a bowl, mine and burn coal, be on the dole, feed a foal, have a goal, dig or have a hole, take a loll, have a mole, want a pole or take a poll, play a role or eat a roll, walk on a sole, hear or pay a toll, and watch a vole in the grass.

    Not much of that is available to "other animals." The "other animals" lives are consistently linear and repetitive, day to day, confined and controlled by their environment.

    None of that needs or identifies a "soul", which comes from 'Magical Thinking with Cloud Logic' and at best, describes the emotional life of a non-rational or ill-educated human.. Even trying to discuss such an imaginary entity re-enforces the old adage that 'A Mind Is A Terrible Thing to Waste'.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope but like the song says let everybody know you got your rock'n'roll soul or everywhere go you know it's understood rock'n'soul music is doggone good. Skip the next line it's for liberals.
    Sense of hearing by my reasoning...and a thumb for Johnpe1
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    soul is a hook upon which a lot of "philosophies" hang
    their defense of humanity's value of life. . what hook do
    we objectivists use in comparison? . reason? . in contrast,
    the "other animals" use instinct? . are we sure that we
    have a monopoly here? -- j
    .
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 5 months ago
    The premise of the question is that the value of humans is based on their having a soul and other animals not having souls.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago
    Ah yes the famous false premise. What is soul? Something for James Brown to think about? Change the word to reason. That works to the extent reason and thinking are allowed to work. Those who don't select that independent choice are 'other animals.'

    Are value is not in flying like a bird, swimming like a fish, or hauling the load of a horse or elephant, nor defending one's self fang and claw. or perhaps with some natural poison. Our value is the ability to make use of their natural abilities and turn our relatively defenseless physical selves into ..bit of whimsy here, Good stewards of the planet or Masters of Destruction. Make that last word Deception. A by product of untrained non-reasoning thinking is the ability to deceive one's own self.
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