The mass spying on innocent American citizens did not stop: https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/...

And more on the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) included in the latest "Ominous" bill of the current thread: https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/...

How the current fear over terrorism is being exploited for all of it: https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram/...

There are millions.. However, they are merely the people of "flyover country" Heck, I know several accountants who if given the power to set up the budget, could have America not only out of debt but on the plus side. The problem is that to do that it is going to hurt. A lot. All science projects except for military are bye-bye. All entitlements so long. All subsidies, ta-ta. All pork projects bye-bye. Re do the Affordable I-don't-care act. You'll hear caterwauling from here to eternity Including me. Some stuff will be left alone and I'm sure you could figure that out for yourself. No one has the courage to propose such drastic action because it's a guarantee that they won't get re-elected.

I understand the argument that if you pick the lesser of two evils you are still picking evil. But if you decide to choose squirrel instead then you increase the likelihood that the person you consider the greater of two evils will win.

If a third party is polling high enough that it isn't squirrel then by all means support it. I thought Perot had made it to that point in 1992 -- I accept my share of the responsibility for Bill Clinton.

Oh, I still hold that they think. It is what they think about that differs between you and I. They want power over others. We want liberty. They can only get power by infringing on our liberties. And so they go to diabolical lengths to persuade us to give up our power. Some buy the arguments. Some do not.

"If Republican voters keep on voting for evil, no ethical candidate will ever be viable."

When you start with a definition that "Republicans (voters and candidates alike) are evil", you're creating your own straw man. I'm not saying that everyone in the Republican Party should be voted for, but you seem to take the other extreme and equate them all with Democrats. I'm not willing to go down that road with you. There are some for whom there is little distinction (McConnell, McCain, and others), but there are others who stand out as noted exceptions to such an overly-broad categorization (Paul, Cruz, Lee, Gowdy, Sessions, and others). I would also point out that the Media is in the bag for the Democrats, but hardly for the Republicans. NBC, CNN, ABC, CBS? They're all biased toward the Dems. Rush, Hannity, and Beck have all voiced their outright displeasure/disgust for the existing Republican Party. Rush even went so far today as to tell the Republican Party that they were on the verge of total collapse due to this Omnibus bill. So I'd definitely make a distinction between how the media treats Democrats vs Republicans.

"I consider Independents as supporters of liberty until they prove otherwise, as the GOP and Dems have done."

One minor question regarding the thought process here, however: even the Independents (like me FYI) still only have have two choices in most elections. "Registering" for one party or the other merely means getting to vote in the Primaries as well as in the Generals. Ultimately, however, there is no "Independent" Party providing candidates for us to pick from :S The Green Party is a bunch of hippies. The Libertarian Party is a one-issue party centered on drugs. The Constitution Party has a great name, but no financial support, let alone a candidate with any cache. The Tea Party is an idea more than a formal organization (except those front groups set up by the Democrats). There is no Objectivist Party. I'm looking around and ... still looking around...

"The ONLY peaceful way for a liberty minded ethical candidate to be viable is if Republicans recognize the GOP as a lying fraud and abandon the GOP en mass. "

I don't disagree that the GOP establishment needs to die. That was the whole purpose of forcing out Boehner. But there is no such thing as a void of power - it transfers somewhere.

All too typical. :( They need a diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arg-E...

If Republican voters keep on voting for evil, no ethical candidate will ever be viable. The statist party controls the media and controls the eventual candidate selection; the voters don't affect that regardless of all the sideshow of polls, "debates", etc.
The ONLY peaceful way for a liberty minded ethical candidate to be viable is if Republicans recognize the GOP as a lying fraud and abandon the GOP en mass. Democrat voters aren't worth the time to even discuss politics; the party gave up rational thought a century ago. I consider Independents as supporters of liberty until they prove otherwise, as the GOP and Dems have done.
My approach is simple, "don't vote for evil." The Dems and GOP have proven they are evil. Use your brain rationally and pick someone outside the statist party. They won't be perfect, but if they have proven a committment to oppose the state with their life, fortune, and sacred honor then they might be good enough. Yes, they might not be perfect, but we have a better chance of defending liberty by rational thinking than by repeating mistakes of the past. The GOP and Dems are mistakes of the past, and they deserve extinction.

Not really. I have a cold and the achies, so i am distracted and have no sense of humor for the time being ;^)

how about paul ryan building a fence around his hose vs around the usa. tell me they are not birds of a feather, 5 million for 0 to go to hi.

That's funny. I just don't have any computers with webcams ;) When I need to Skype, I hook it up.

Viable means one appearing on the ballot where I live, first of all. Second, it means one with enough support behind them to get in the televised debates so people can see the differences in ideas. That is where politics will change, but not beforehand. I like the idea of a popular groundswell like the Tea Party, but they are leaderless, and without that, they have no concentration of power.

Your real argument is that you are sick of not having an option you like to vote FOR. I can understand and sympathize with that. It is the secondary conclusion that by virtue of that decision, any vote will be a vote for "evil" where you lose me.

"It is becoming pretty clear that talking to "Republican" voters is futile."

And you think you'll have better success with Democrat voters? Or even the Independents?

"[Republican voters] have doomed America and will never take responsibility for their actions."

Why do you think Cruz and Trump (and earlier Ben Carson) are leading the polls? It's because they buck the establishment Republicans like Bush and Christie and the voters see that. I see the current trends and conclude the opposite of your assertion. The voters I openly criticize are the ones who vote for a Democrat.

I would ask you to please correct me if I am misinterpreting you, but you seem to advocate that no one should vote at all because there aren't any perfect candidates. Inaction to me, however, is far from a solution to the problem, which is why I ask for solutions, not merely discontent for the status quo.

But that fish really was THAT big... ;)

The mistake you are making is by assuming these people have thinking capacity. They function like a pack of wild dogs vying for their share of the kill. They are savages, and trying to philosophize about them the situation is a waste of time.

I have figured out why Speaker Ryan has grown a beard.

It's to hide his naked shame.

Why the aitch is there even a Republican party if they're not going to act to implement the policies they run on?

I heard the interview with Chucky Schumer on Rush Limbaugh, and he sounded as though he couldn't believe the deal the Dimocrats got. They got more than they expected.

Here's another one from today: http://humanevents.com/2015/12/18/est...

In eleven years we will be toast. In eleven years all federal income will be spent on the debt interest payments and mandated entitlements. Do the math. Nothing will be left for defense or other legitimate federal functions. In eleven years (or sooner) the federal government will collapse under its own weight. Perhaps then moral capitalists will show they way. Wasn't there a book written about this? Atlas Shrugged - the prophecy!

I exaggerated about it being the "Millionth time" ;^)

Or saying gibberish.

there was never any question. ryan was backed by the GOP insiders. He was, by definition, controllled and would do as all GOP "leaders" have done for 30 years: anything he was told to do in exchange for the power of "leading" the GOP. The supposed "leaders" are NOT leaders; they are looter puppets.

For the MILLIONTH time: you vote for evil, YOU are responsible for the results.
Since clearly it doesn't matter what I write, why ask me again?
You are a smart person. Look at the results of the past 50 years. Figure it out for yourself.
It is becoming pretty clear that talking to "Republican" voters is futile. They have doomed America and will never take responsibility for their actions. .
"Viable" third party candidate? What makes one "viable"? As long as everyone who votes continues to vote without rational thought to the consequences, no rational candidate will be viable. You decide who is viable with your vote. You decide who is not viable by voting for evil instead of voting for principle.

I have just returned from my weekly noon time drive to pick up my Friday catfish from a convenience food store deli.
On the way I listened to Rush.
Thus I learned that, after the bill was passed, Obama called Paul Ryan and said, "Thanks for making government work."
Not mentioned was how Ryan must have raced to the rest room to wash off being so pathetically slimed.

Then it is definitely a loss to this nation that there aren't millions more like her.

She appears, however, to have some progeny that show promise ;)

And what is the alternative at this point? Show me a viable third party candidate.

If you're willing to run for office, you can criticize the choices available and those who vote for them. Complaining for the sake of complaining, however, gets us nowhere.