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The Perfect Knowledge Fallacy

Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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This fallacy comes up quite often in the gulch and in any epistemological discussion. It has come up recently again in the gulch with someone thinking they have found the ultimate objection to Objectivism.

The perfect knowledge fallacy is common among religionists, but also Kant and the German counter enlightenment as well as Hume and the Scottish counter-enlightenment. The argument is that if you do not know one thing, then you do not know anything. The tactic of these people is to say since you do not know x, then you can't know anything.

This argument is based on a false definition of knowledge. They will argue that a man 3000 years ago who thought the Earth was flat had no knowledge. Note however if you are building a small house, even today, we assume the Earth is flat and this is fine. This does not mean we do not have knowledge. Knowledge like mathematical equations has bounds or regions in which it is valid. Knowledge is information (facts and concepts) that are accurate within the accuracy necessary for the question being posed and within the region the question is being asked. Note, we still don't know the mechanism for how gravity works, that does not mean that we do not have knowledge about gravity. There are also open questions about mass and inertia, not to mention question about calculus. This does not mean we do not have knowledge.

I have to admit that the perfect knowledge fallacy usually sneaks up on me and it takes a while to see that this is the other person's argument. However, it is used quite a bit so it is worth remembering.


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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think I know what you are driving at with this statement "Much of our knowledge of reality can be regarded as approximations", however I think this accepts the premise that knowledge means omniscience.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely, but it is also used by the socialists, anti-enlightenment led by Kant and by Hume (conservatives).
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  • Posted by davidmcnab 9 years, 7 months ago
    Spoken like a battle-hardened engineer who has spent some years dealing with retards! :)
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why is that a problem. My example is space. What happens when there is nothing left but space and then space ceases to exist?

    My answer? What? Me Worry? My job is project and preserve my immortality through progeny and let them solve the problem.

    I'm passing the buck.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The "unknown unknown" is one of the reasons that Newtonian dynamics is incomplete. Newton did not know the speed of light or if it was instantaneous. As a result he could not include it and its consequences in his "Principia Mathematica". He was also unaware of the relationship between magnetism and electricity. This does not detract from the enormous value of his contributions but it does illustrate that everyone has limits.
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The other problem is the unknown unknown. Which is a flaw in the perfect knowledge argument. There is alway the possibility you don't know that there is further knowledge that you don't know about because it exist outside of your ability to access it.

    Consider a black hole. We can speculate what exists beyond the event horizon, but short of actually plunging into one there is no way to find that out and it is a one way trip. Because even if you somehow survived your trip, you could never inform anyone back here outside of your new knowledge. (Of course, I am operating with current knowledge of what we believe a black hole is and how it seems everything that crosses the event horizon never escapes to come back. It may someday be proven false and there may be ways to communicate information back, however unlikely that seems).
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 7 months ago
    As I understood it, the Objectivist position is that
    while many things are unknown, nothing is un-
    knowable
    . And the fact that you might not know
    as much as somebody does not necessitate (nor
    even justify) just accepting some supernatural (or other) authority on blind faith. I think Galt's
    speech said, "Accept the fact that you are not
    omniscient, but becoming a zombie will not give
    you omniscience..."
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago
    I remember the story of the snail family, dynasty really. They lived on a very flat planet something like ours. This one had a continuous continent. The first snail started towards the horizons saying."yes still flat." The second or third generation postulated the sun is moving around us based on light and dark. The latest generation suddenly came on the start point of their ancestors. "See we told you so. We've been around the world and it's flat.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago
    You are exactly correct in identifying the fallacy that purports one can not know anything without knowing everything. We will always exist in the middle ground between abject ignorance and perfect omniscience. The trick is to recognize that we are at neither extreme and the even bigger trick is to be able to tell how far along the path on any given topic we are. We should recognize and be proud of the knowledge we have obtained, but never be satisfied with what we have to the point of deciding there is nothing else we can learn.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 7 months ago
    Excellent point dbhalling. Much of our knowledge of reality can be regarded as approximations. Newtonian dynamics works well enough that we can use it to navigate spacecraft from one planet to another (an application that would have astounded even Newton). However, we know that in the extreme Newtons laws of gravitation are incomplete. Einstein filled in some of the blanks that exist near the edges of Newton but even Einstein knew his theories of relativity were also incomplete. Our theories of reality provide pragmatic approximations of of the behavior of that reality.
    At some point we must face a fundamental question; "Is the complexity of reality finite or infinite?".
    Recent work in quantum physics suggests that reality is more complex than any of our models but we do not know if this complexity extends without limit. The answer to this question is of fundamental significance because it determines if there are limits to our understanding.
    Consider knowledge and reality in terms of a Venn diagram. There is the universe of discourse which can be defined as the sum totality of all reality and there is a smaller domain which we can call "Our knowledge of that reality". That smaller domain overlaps the larger one with the intersection being that part of our understanding that is included in reality and the part that lies outside the intersection consists of what we "know" that is false.
    The problem is that if the domain of reality is infinitely large it is impossible, by the definition of infinity, to ever encompass it with a finite model. If on the other hand the domain of reality is finite, no matter how large, it is possible, at least in principal, to gain complete knowledge. The consequences of this are profound because in one direction lies an endless quest and in the other lies godhood.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've found the door knockers respond well to slamming the door in their face. They aren't educated enough to understand the meaning of No Thank You. Is it the N or the O that confuses people?
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Guess I'm a pretty liberal (cough cough one of those guys) for being interested in what Gulchers (who aren't into cough cough well you know what I'm a-sayin') may think about this and that.
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  • Posted by helidrvr 9 years, 7 months ago
    Very well put, dbhalling. The roots for many of the fallacies you describe are twofold. 1. Deriving an opinion by applying superb reasoning to a false premise. 2. Conflating that opinion with knowledge.

    Both are demonstrably present in the "objection to objectivism" post.
    -
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  • Posted by Riftsrunner 9 years, 7 months ago
    This is the Christian Apologetic called Presuppositionalism. The Christian says that because you can be wrong in what you know, you cannot deny a God exists. They go so far as to say that all knowledge comes from God so even asking for evidence to support their position requires a belief that God exist. They can be quite insufferable to debate with because they constantly try to derail the conversation, especially when you might have arguments that point out the flaws in their logic. One of their favorite tactics is to quote bible verse to support their positions, but when they come up against someone who is also well versed, they switch to that 'they don't do bible studies with non-believers'.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 7 months ago
    Hello dbhalling,
    Very good. I like your flat earth example... sly says I, ...with a wink and a nod... :)
    Regards,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by broskjold22 9 years, 7 months ago
    Thanks for posting this. I will add: I think an instructive example of the principle behind the correct epistemology is that given by Peikoff on the discovery of RH factors of blood types. For reference, the conclusion was contextual: Blood type A is compatible with blood type A, when the RH factors are matched.

    The phrase which sums up the concept is: "Knowledge is contextual".
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