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Mainstream Media Journalist Exposes How the US ‘War on Terror’ Increased Terrorism by 4,500%

Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 3 months ago to Politics
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So after all the talk in last night's Republican Debate about ISIS and Muslim Terrorists, let's back up a little bit and take a closer look at what $6,000,000,000,000.00, 7,000 KIA's, and 22 Veteran Suicides/Day has accomplished since we started the "WAR ON TERROR", and what we can expect from a future under "leadership" by a large part of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party.
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From the article:
“According to reports from our own U.S. government, reports of deaths from terrorism in the Middle East between 2002 and 2014 have increased 4,500 percent.

But let’s go a little deeper. Take for instance just the country of Iraq. Before the 2003 U.S. invasion, do you know how many suicide attacks there were in Iraq? None. In the country’s history there had never been one. But since the 2003 invasion, there have been 1,892.

And what about Afghanistan? Just last year alone, insurgents killed 2,643 civilians last year—the highest number since U.N. records began.

How about Pakistan? In the 14 years prior to 9/11 there was one suicide attack on Pakistani soil. In the 14 years since, there have been 486 suicide attacks.

The same is true in the past 14 years in Somalia (88), Yemen (85), Libya (29), Nigeria (91), and Syria (165).”
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And where are the 1.5million Christians that were living in their native country of Iraq before 2003? That's a question for Conservatives.


SOURCE URL: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mainstream-media-journalist-exposes-created-terror-declaring-war-terror/


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    Posted by straightlinelogic 8 years, 3 months ago
    I'm gratified to see your article. I think that at least some people are waking up to the reality of the US's intervention in the Middle East: more terrorism, millions of refugees, propping up so-called friends who are brutal dictators and who play the US like a fiddle, and the surveillance state at home. Keep up the good work, and I'll keep posting material from me and others in the same vein.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      You're welcome SLL. It's disappointing to see not only the general public, but worse, members of GG be so easily manipulated and 'patriotized' into the absurdity that's been played on this country and the rest of the Western civilization since the end of WWII and particularly since the start of Vietnam.

      The 'short sightedness' and attention span of the public is appalling, particularly since we live in an age where so much information is so readily available to anyone with even a minimal interest in what affects their lives.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 3 months ago
    Rand Paul is the only one speaking any sense on this topic. This war on terror is a joke. We've played a highly active roll in destroying so much in the middle east...cementing in place our role as a nation of dangerous f'ups.

    I've been asking for a few years now, "If we are at war with terror, why are our borders wide open?"
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
      Ditto on the last paragraph coupled to what is wrong with accepting refugees who are non islamic and raising the bar for those those who are? It's a group effort for them why treat them as individuals - they are not. What is wrong with fighting terror within our own borders. Plenty enough of that to go around.

      Yes Paul is speaking with sense but that's one subject. He failed when he demonstrated a liking for leftist economics and a lack of faith in himself and a continued allegiance to the those whose primary goal is socialist. Talk is one thing, he walks on the wrong side with his actions. Espousing more of the same is to me is a political, cultural and social three strikes your out. A. He's a Republican. B. He's an economic Pelosite. C. He ducks too many questions and issues. Same applies to Cruz. You find your solution or acceptance. I'll reject those who don't qualify and those have no suggestions, plans, ideas, nor answers except flush a toilet --- again. .
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 3 months ago
        Leftist economics? When did he do that?

        Rand's problem is that he comes across as a guy you wouldn't want on your side in a bar fight. That shouldn't matter, but it does.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
          When he endorsed his version of VAT and put the 16% tax on business. So let's walk through this. Add 16 % to every business that's involved in getting you a new dining room table and chairs. From the tree cutter, the miner, etc. all the way through to the retailer. Those businesses put it under cost of government add and send the 16% collected to the government and ADD in the cost of collection. Finally it gets down to the retailer along with all the other embedded and enhanced fees and taxes. Sales Tax all paid for with after tax devalued dollars. So where exactly does the consumer get left out or benefit? Consumer costs go up and he's stuck with what income tax and this latest version of Pelosi's VAT? This version is a tax on income and not a Fair Tax any sign it will stay at 16% add on per business along the production and marketing chain? So like the flat tax it does nothing but wait for the next increase. A fair tax does one tax one time at the very end this doesn't qualify. Since it's Nancy Pelosillynni's favorite it's automatically a left wing tax and besides RINOs like Rand are also left wing. He's s fricking Republican not a Libertarian he left that behind when he went to the dark side. So did the Bohner replacement dude. And so did Cruz who asked for this same tax . Some assume it's a replacement for income tax. Where's the proof where's the protection it won't be both. Guys like Rand and Cruz ARE Pelosi's Camel Nose
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  • Posted by ChestyPuller 8 years, 3 months ago
    If only I had not and did not continue to study islam; maybe then I would fall for this garbarge, but I have and do study islam. over the centuries islam has constantly attacked non-muslims, known as Kafir (singular non-muslim) Kuffar (plural non-muslims). As matter of fact Iraq became by attacking the Kuffar that was living and ruling there.

    Maybe we should discuss a few items;
    What is a Caliphate?
    What does Salafi mean, and who calls themselves that?

    You see most who write articles like this are either; ignorant of the facts, dhimmi's [fools helping islam expand], or islamists lying to help islam to expand.

    Let us begin the discussion; shall we
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      OK Chesty:

      Religion bad, Objectivism good.

      People that rely on religious belief and faith to direct their lives and actions, bad.

      Islam is a religion, so it's bad. Muslims believe in Islam and what it tells them to do, bad.

      Objectivist rational, logical reasoning leads to understanding that all individuals have rights, to include whether to use reasoning or not. No one may force another to believe, not to believe, or to use reason.
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      • Posted by ChestyPuller 8 years, 3 months ago
        In correct islam is more political then religious; Sharia law court rules, lending laws, what to wear in public laws, laws for beating women [not above the shoulders and on and on... Sorry it's not a religion
        islam has been murdering Kuffar long before these United States of America were founded. They destroyed and murdered most of India, Turkey and Africa. Muslim's were the largest [and known as the controller] of all of the African slave Trade. How about studying history...hmmm...
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          I'm not going to be portrayed as defending Islam, much less any religion. Any inference otherwise is a direct misrepresentation of anything I've ever said or written.

          Islam, in it's actions and functions is no different than any other religion in fighting reason and science in it's drive to keep people ignorant and subservient to the priests of the religion or the ruling elite that partner with the religion for the same purposes. The evil and savagery that results from such efforts and actions has been a significant part of the entire known history of mankind and no religion has clean hands in that history.

          The only relief mankind has ever had in all of that history, up through today, resulted from the Enlightenment of the 1700's and the establishment of this country with separation of church and state. And we still have to maintain the fight to keep that separation, even through today, with Christianity still desiring to have their 'beliefs' over-ride science, reason, and individual freedom in this country.
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          • Posted by ChestyPuller 8 years, 3 months ago
            Really, name another religion that currently has laws and punishment for theif [cutting off the right hand], women being beaten, raped and only having the value of a goat.
            It takes 4 muslim woman against 1 muslim to say he raped 1 of them in order to have the man punished or not have the woman stoned to death.

            Name a religion that has laws for lending and mortgages; I'm still waiting on my last questions to be answered.

            You brought this conversation to the forefront, defend it.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
              Chesty; The conversation I brought to the forefront is strictly about the gains/lack thereof from the 'War On Terror' and had nothing whatsoever to do with the relative merits/evils of any religion, ZERO.

              It appears to me that you're the one that wants to discuss how dastardly and evil Islam is, including it's directives to implement a Theocracy.

              My position is quite clear. ALL religions are evil and anti-freedom, always have been, and always will be. And again, the only cause that effected our relative freedom from such drivers of ignorance and savagery was The Enlightenment. Had you spent as much time studying that major change in how men thought about the minds of men, the rights of men, and the fallacy of mystical, revelationary, and irrational knowledge---you might be better able to understand the topic of this Post.

              I've explained this to you now for the third time since your intrusion into this Post. If all you want to say, is that Islam is evil, I agree with you and I add, All religions have been and still are evil towards the life of men. But the points in this Post still stand.
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            • Posted by conscious1978 8 years, 3 months ago
              You're counting 'angels on the head of a pin' and missing the 'point'.

              None of those questions matter.
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              • Posted by ChestyPuller 8 years, 3 months ago
                What I was and am pointing out is that that statistics are skewed, TERROR ATTACKS HAVE BEEN GOING ON SINCE 623 A.D.

                The biggest difference is that the MSM is showing more of them, picking and choosing which ones they show. Muslim’s have been perpetrating these vicious acts all along.
                In the name of Islam 10 million Hindu’s in India were murdered, millions of African, Egyptian, Turkish and Middle Eastern Christians have been murdered; the total now over 270 million; yet the ‘article’ claims it’s more now than before?

                The article is suggesting that the U.S. is the initiator against islam and that is patently false just as it is calling the Crusades the attack against peaceful muslim’s; both were and are in retaliation of islamic evil.
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                • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                  Chesty; Thanks for adding this comment. I appreciate your points, and you're correct about the atrocities of Islam. It is a religion of savages and brutes

                  But I didn't read the Posted article as defending Islam. I read it as a criticism of the results and goals our Gov't has lied to us about in their desire to have a "War". We had a right to go after Al Quieda and the Taliban immediately after 9/11 and grind them into the dirt as retribution, but we failed to go after the Saudi's--15 of the 19 hi-jackers were Saudis. And then we got ourselves involved in the losing effort of democracy building in Afghanistan.

                  But worse yet, we gave up a lot of the Constitutional protections of our individual freedoms and rights in the process

                  But going into Iraq and working to start and support the 'Arab Spring' were and are against the values of this country and Objectivism. And the results have made the world a more dangerous place than it was before. All that I can see that we've accomplished is to put ourselves into the middle of a religious was between Sunnis and Shiites, and to release and even support a mass of ignorance, thuggery, and savagery throughout the Mid-East.
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              • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                Indeed, but it seems to obsess his mind. And I fear that reflects the thinking (or lack thereof) of many in this country, rather than reality.
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                • Posted by ChestyPuller 8 years, 3 months ago
                  No not obsessed, but one that will not let false stories making islam look like the poor attacked group.

                  Please show me were the Bible [Christianity] wants to enslave; keep ones freedoms from being available. I am not speaking of sects that are corrupted such as with for example the Catholic sect. Or the Buddhist/Hindu religions; please show the enslavement.

                  islam has pushed for and taught attacking Kuffar as good and wanted by islam through allah. There books all speak of attacking, murdering, raping, mutilating and torturing non-muslim's and muslim's that do not agree as making you a better muslim.

                  So you are correct if you think I will stand against any propaganda that tries to make islam look like the peaceful group being assaulted.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 3 months ago
    War on drugs, war on terror, war on war. These are not wars. According to Rush, war is defined by the following. War is to kill people and break things. Sweep away all the extraneousness, the ideologies, and when you come right down to it - that's it.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
      Rush got it right he was taught that by the military.
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      • Posted by $ Suzanne43 8 years, 3 months ago
        You and Herb have got it right about Rush. In World War ll, more people were killed and more things were broken in Germany and in Japan than they were on the side of the allies because we went into the war to WIN it. It's not until the enemy admits defeat that a war is over. I''m tired of the PC view that we can't drop a bomb on ISIS territory if even a stupid goat is sited.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
          Those that are afraid to defend themselves are not worthy protecting. They believe in mystic magic of dream world and say, "Prove I exist." No matter let Jihadi bullets and bombs do that. They are not worth us risking our lives when they will not defend their own existence.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 3 months ago
    Neither in defense or support of the proposed policies, but merely observations:

    1. Suicide bombings are ideological: they are attacks on Western ideology. So until Western ideology and its influence begins to pervade a region to the point that it directly threatens Islamic fundamentalism, of course there are going to be zero suicide bombings. The Qu'ran specifically forbids Muslims from engaging in holy war against other believers. Only infidels are justified targets. (None of which prohibits them from raping and then stoning women who get raped, of course.)

    2. For insurgent attacks, see #1 again.

    3. Suicide attacks are not new. The word "assassin" originates from the ancient use of Islamic hitmen who were stoned on hashish/opiates to the point that they frequently died while trying to take out their targets. "hashishen" -> assassin. It's just that the advent of bomb-making allows them to go after more than one target at a time.

    4. One is ignoring the attacks on Israel, which have been going on since its creation in 1948 and its independence in 1949. These attacks are also ideological in nature.

    5. Is one going to consider the history of the region and how Islam came to power? It was through brutal and bloody war: the wholesale slaughter and subjugation of entire regions well into Europe. That they were stalled and pushed back into the Middle East is commonly forgotten by many.

    The reality: Western ideology IS at war with Islam - like it or not. The ideology of Islam and Sharia is wholly incompatible with the principles of freedom espoused in the Constitution. Where we choose to engage and how are up to us. IF has already been decided.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      All I can say is "Jeez guy", really?
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 3 months ago
        Not sure what you wish to say. I agree that the deposition of dictators such as Qaddhafi and Mubarak has removed a check on the proliferation of the radical theological elements. All I'm pointing out is that they've always been there.

        We (the West) didn't create the monster, we just ignorantly cut several of the chains binding it.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          That makes a little more sense. But I argue that not only did we cut the chains, we riled the hell out of it (the mad dog) before we cut it loose.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 3 months ago
            The dog was already rabid and has been for ~1300 years. The bigger question in my mind is why this President chose to loose it. The three options are that he is ignorant, delusional, or complicit. I'm voting for C.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
              Now you went too far. Arguing that their religion is bad and by inference that the West's is good, is as silly as comparing which cancer you'd rather have.

              You cannot fight or defeat a religion.
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              • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 3 months ago
                I'm confused as to whether or not you're being sarcastic. I compared their religion with the Constitution. If you want to declare both cancers...

                Islam is evil and I make no apologies for saying such. It is anti-freedom, anti-liberty, and anti-equality and I consider freedom, liberty, and equality good things.

                Can we fight Islam? Absolutely. Anyone who refuses to agree with their worldview is fighting against them in the most effective way possible: ideologically. I agree with you that a strictly military conflict isn't going to do much. First of all you're talking about ~1.6 billion people and second because then you would be employing exactly the same tactics of conversion they espouse - violence and coercion - to reach that goal.
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                • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                  Oh, there's probably a little sarcasm there, but the point I'm hoping that everyone comes to is that you can't fight ideology, particularly of the religious kind. It's never worked in the known history of the world and it never will. Attempting to do so only serves to reinforce the priests and rulers declarations and hate.

                  The only way we'll ever defeat ISIS or any other group of thieves and thugs espousing any religion is through Enlightenment influence. That's what it took for us to be able to escape the control and influence of religion in our government, and it's the same for them. That may take another century, if at all. But if they're really that dangerous to us prior to that point, quarantine them and let them kill themselves and fail as they must. Put our brains and wealth in a free and open Capital market and take care of ourselves.
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 3 months ago
    So since Obama started ignoring terrorism, it has decreased?
    How much of that "4500% increase" has been since 2009?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      Who said it's decreased? As much as I despise Obama, I despise Bush I and II just as much. Are you seriously trying to imply that the story would have been any different had the Conservative choice of McCain or Romney been elected?
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      • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 3 months ago
        Oh come on! Don't be so obtuse. The rise of ISIS came after Obama pulled our troops out of Iraq in 2011. That news story started out as a "fact check" on the Republican presidential debate, and includes all the same liberal memes that were minted during the Bush administration. Every issue in the opening sentence: war spending, US KIA's, and veteran suicides was breathlessly reported on during the 7 years that Bush was fighting the war on terror. So now Obama has been NOT fighting the war on terror for 7 years, and those values have all approximately doubled, yet the story is just looking to place ALL the blame on the Republicans.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          It has nothing to do with placing the blame on "the Republicans"--I just re-read the article and it doesn't mention any political party, but it does show a picture of Bush and Obama.

          And from this quote from the article:
          "Terrorism deaths skyrocketed by 80% in 2014, the largest increase since 2000. More nations than ever have experienced terrorist attacks, and the number of countries experiencing 500 or more terrorism deaths also increased.

          Most of these are, of course, in the Middle East where the U.S. and its allies are concentrating their war on terror. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, along with Nigeria, accounted for 78% of the 2014 total."

          That sure doesn't sound like blaming "the Republicans". Does it to you?

          ISIS, by the way grew out of AQ in Iraq, the displaced and criminalized members of Saddam's military, and my favorite, the anti-Assad rebels that McCain met with in 12 and 13 that he wanted us to fund. We did send them arms that we admit to and money (which we don't admit to) and helped them set up oil delivery and sales to Turkey (in order to put pressure on Russia's attempt to control Oil and gas to Southern and Eastern Europe).
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          • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 3 months ago
            Here is the last line of the original excerpt from the article that you started this thread with:

            "And where are the 1.5million Christians that were living in their native country of Iraq before 2003? That's a question for Conservatives."

            That sounds like "blaming the Republicans" to me.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
              That sounds and looks like a comment by me to the quote defined within the lines. And I'll stand by that. The Christians had to start bailing out of Iraq before Obama. Many of them went to Syria.
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              • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 3 months ago
                In that case, don't blame the conservatives for Obama bailing out of Iraq. When the USA invaded Iraq, I understood that it was a commitment similar to assuring the peace in Europe after WW2. 70 years later, there are still American troops in Europe. A similar commitment to assure the peace was necessary in Iraq. What would have happened to Europe if America had abandoned it when the Russians blockaded Berlin in 1948?
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                • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                  You're being very defensive towards conservatives, without attempting to understand the impact of the neo-cons that took over your party, on the down-low during Reagan's and Bush's I administrations, then came back into power with a vengeance with Bush II. It was so bad with Bush II, that one often wondered who the President really was. Many of those guys are still around just licking their chops over Syria and Iraq.

                  As to troops in Europe 70 years after WWII, what's with that. We went ahead and paid for their rebuilding and have provided their defense for all that time and quite a bit of our real debt for that still exists. 70 years, so they didn't have to protect themselves or fight. How nuts is that.
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                  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 3 months ago
                    I wouldn't say I'm being defensive toward the conservatives; more like trying to set the record straight. Yes, and I am marveling at my apparent advocacy of supporting the Marshall plan, and how that flies in the face of Ayn Rand's writing on foreign aid to the People's States of Europe in AS. I think the whole reason for the existence of Ragnar Danneskjold in the book was to stop the flow of foreign aid to Europe. You know, he's the pirate that seized all the relief ships going to Europe, laundered the repossessed property, and returned the proceeds to the producers.

                    But I can't help thinking of how difficult the Soviet Union would have been to deal with if the US had just let them take over continental Europe in the '40's and '50's. Our mistake was that we didn't know when to step back and let Europe defend itself. Now every country is socialist and is used to the USA paying for the defense of the continent.

                    If there is an upside to Obama's do-nothing foreign policy, it's that the countries we used to help protect are now realizing they have to take full responsibility for their own defense. The French are showing some signs of that in the wake of the Paris terror attack.
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  • Posted by broskjold22 8 years, 3 months ago
    Based on the article, it would appear your inference is that the War on Terror causes more terror. However, 9-11, the most disastrous attack on the US homeland since Pearl Harbor, preceded the War on Terror. If the War on Terror causes more terror, how do you explain the presence of Al Qaeda before the War on Terror? Given that the War on Terror could be more limited to specific targets, how do you justify ending anti-terror campaigns that save American lives? Or do you propose a "homeland only" anti-terror force?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      I think what I'd say is that our conduct of the entire "War On Terror" has caused more terror. Even though 15 of the 19 9/11 Hijackers were Saudi's, 1 was Egypians, 2 were UAE, and 1 was from Lebanon, our attack on Afghanistan because of Bin Ladin's supposed presence there, and the attack on the Taliban for supporting his organization was justifiable, we did nothing about Saudi Arabia nor made them do anything about their problems.

      But Iraq and the idea of turning Afghanistan into a democracy were the most imbecilic actions we've ever taken as a country, right behind Vietnam and more recently supporting and getting involved in the 'Arab Spring' and since then Syria. This idea that we can go in and depose, or help depose, a settled gov't regime and "spread freedom and democracy" to countries that in much of their territories, are barely above the stone age and who don't educate their people past the Qoran, is the height of stupidity and obviously had nothing whatsoever to do with any "War On Terror" that impacted the US.

      As to paying attention to our own problems in the 'homeland'(I hate that word--I prefer country), I don't oppose that any more than G. Washington did 220 years ago. And the 'homeland' anti-terror force is nothing more than the creation of a police state that has nothing to do with terror. Terror in the US would be much better dealt with by treating 'terrorists' as what they really are--thugs, criminals, and insane.

      And it's not only a question of What Have We Gained through or out of this War On Terror, it's what have we not paid attention to while we've bought off on all the propaganda--we've arguably been in a depression as bad as or worse than the 30's that we're still in and we've essentially lost a significant portion of our Bill of Rights protection. We've even learned that
      our 'Protect and Serve and Terrorist First Responders' police force kill nearly 1,200 of our people per year instead of what our gov't has told us for years and years was only 400 or so, and they only actually kill some 20 to 30% of those they shoot.

      What was Einstein's alleged quote about insanity; paraphrased: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result." Sorry for the length of this response.
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      • Posted by broskjold22 8 years, 3 months ago
        I appreciate the response. The conservative pretense of "nation building" is nothing short of imbecilic, to be sure. Also, the ratio of innocent to insurgent casualties is no doubt excessive and could be a reason behind some radicalization. (Perhaps this effect is what Bin Laden had in mind when he decided to attack the US.) Further, the Ayatollah's comment about the chants in Iran against the US meaning the end of American arrogance may well be partly influenced by the recognition of the stupidity of the nation-building conservative mentality. I believe it even more "arrogant" - if by arrogant, you mean detached from reality through altruism.

        I blame pragmatism for the current problems behind our nation building and our war on terror. Even if the end goal is peace, peace at any price leads not to peace, but to compromise, irrationality, and bloodshed. The end does NOT justify the means. At the same time, the Taliban and Al Qaeda must be destroyed ON PRINCIPLE.
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  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
    FWIW, here are my perspectives that I believe can be confirmed but I can't take the time to cite references:
    1. The invasion of Iraq as part of the "WOT" was successful, and then it wasn't and then after the surge, it finally was. I believe they have had something like a dozen local and national free elections since 2003 (my Marine hubby was there helping during the first one).
    And then Iraq has gone precipitously downhill since BO withdrew all the troops in 2011. As to whose fault that was, a google search will reveal articles debating it. To sum up, yes, Bush did leave a SOFA for his predecessor that called for the withdrawal of all troops in 2011. However it is SOP that SOFAs get re-negotiated by any credible leader and even Panetta (BO's SecDef) wrote in his book that Obama did very little to try to negotiate it. Also remember that Ghadaffi gave up his WMD shortly after we (US coalition) invaded Iraq as he had grave concerns that he'd be next. So we got rid of two dictators for the price of one.

    As to where the 1.5 million Christians are - I am pretty sure I saw a bunch of them beheaded, burned, crucified and drowned in cages by ISIS in the last year.

    I agree with the position that "the enemy gets a vote"

    Furthermore, before 2003 Saddam Hussein was using chemical weapons on the Kurds and conducting all sorts of unspeakable torture and brutality on his citizens. And drained the Mesopotamian marshes to exert control over that population. So no wonder that there might not have been any suicide bombings during his reign of terror. I understand what appears to be your frustration Z, but I think you are mixing up correlative with causative events. It is frustrating to see the time, effort, lives and limbs of our military and our tax dollars wasted. But I guess that is what happens when politics influences policy.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
      As for the Christians....they aren't allowed in Iran. In Iraq they were genocided and the remainder are underground churdhes., in Syria they have gone underground and in the current news articles in one about people sending email christmas trees tho those hiding out. Of course it's all there fault of course how dare they be Christians in Obombistan?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      So, I gather that your rationalizations of 'democratization', Bush did good but Obama screwed it up, ISIS killed a few Christians, and WMD's (Give Me A Break) are supposed to serve as justifications and retorts of the article referenced, and re-direct our attention to some type of 'political' answer. I think maybe you missed the point of the article.
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      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
        So are you saying that you support the notion that if the U.S. flipped a switch and starting immediately didn't spend another penny on our military that ISIS et al would vanish ??! That is what I took the article to say which I think has no factual basis. Again, whether we fund and fight against terror or not -- the enemy gets a vote! That is more than a pithy saying. There is a concerted and well organized effort to re-establish the caliphate, and anyone who disbelieves that is naive.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          No, I'm not saying that and I don't think that was the import of the articles author. I think we're in a mess over there, but in order to resolve it, hopefully in our favor, we need to stop all the false narrative and gain a full and open understanding of what we truly face, both in the Mid East and more importantly, here in the US. We also need to face our parts in starting the mess, both overtly and covertly. We as well must accept dealing with that area and it's population as it exists today, not based on the false narratives of the past or the lies of today.

          Part of that needs to be the cost in treasure, reputation, and blood of the last many years, but also to accept that after all is said and done--It is our country, our treasure, and our blood. Not that of our 'leaders'.

          I for one, am extremely tired of being manipulated and lied to. Information such as that in the article may be disturbing in either it's revelations or in the way it's presented, but we need to see it, process it, and analyze it with reality and as many facts as we can discover for ourselves--not just the continual line of BS we're so used to playing around in.
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          • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
            I find the original article very misleading and manipulative. The "military industrial complex" is a huge red flag. Here is some information:
            http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/d...
            Both as a percent of our GDP, as well as a percent of the federal budget defense spending is a fraction of what it was when Eisenhower coined that phrase. While I agree with the feeling of not wanting to be played for a chump by our govt, neither do I get sucked in to opinion pieces that have such an obvious agenda. Further, I have to share that my dad had his career in the State Dept ending under the time Kissinger was SecState and I know that unless you are a policy maker or a politician whose committee participation requires high level clearances WE HAVE NO REAL IDEA what is really going on. Which is as it should be. Yes, I acknowledge this is counter to the Objectivist ideal that it is the citizens country, blood and treasure, not the government's. But that is just simply not reality. Therefore, imo, the best we ( citizens) can and should do is to make sure we put the controls in the hands of the most eithical, educated politicians so that they will be modt likely to put ethical, educated bureaucrats into the policy positions to make the best possible decisions for our country.
            Yes, I think both political sides have seemingly made some less than the best of decisions (they're only human) but I read opinion pieces with a very critical eye to throw out facts used in a way to simply advance an agenda.
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            • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 3 months ago
              Blind faith can be reserved for no one, but trusting politicians to be ethical is simply asking for the impossible. Trusting politicians has made the mess of this country that it is and maybe to the point that we can never return to the true freedom that I so desire.
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              • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
                I think that is unnecessarily cynical. There might not be a lot of them whose word I'd trust, but there are some. How many congressmen or senators do you know personally ? I know a couple and one more who's currently a candidate.
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                • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 3 months ago
                  I don't believe it is cynical to tell the truth as I see it. I participate so I've known a number of politicians. Politicians are exactly the people I wouldn't vote for. Politics is simply a game playing with peoples lives, in which they rarely tell everyone the entire truth. Therefore I still stand that ethical and politician cannot be used in the same sentence with a straight face. And I've been an elected official so I've seen first hand what power does to even the the most trustworthy of politicians. I agree there are some good candidates though, if they don't turn into politicians.
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                  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
                    So then what is your solution ? You're saying as soon as someone wins an election they're disqualified ! So we should be a government without any elected officials ?
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                    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                      Yes. The country was founded on the principle of citizen statesmen, and opposed professional politicians, political parties, and a professional gov't worker making governing decisions.
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                    • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 3 months ago
                      No, what I'm saying is we need people in office, not politicians. Citizen legislators that are not making their living off the backs of the people. If they truly had a stake in the outcomes that they vote for we would retain a much more ethical government. As it is, most are just trying to get reelected to keep their paycheck coming. The best way to do that is pass bill that provide money to the largest groups of people. This is why the Democrats have been so successful.
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                      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
                        Ok. That sounds like perhaps what you're advocating for is term limits ??
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                        • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 3 months ago
                          I'm more advocating to elect people who have not went to school for political science or have not made it their profession. Term limits would not be needed if they were not earning a living serving. It should be just that, serving because you have something to offer. Put in a few years after they have made their living and then return to the private sector to work until retirement. There would only need to be one simple law passed and that is they could not work in any lobbying industry for 10 years.
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                          • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
                            I think you mean "have not gone to school"...
                            That aside, so then this idea 100% excludes all but those who can afford to "not earn a living serving", meaning you guarantee only the Trumps of the world would be able to survive if they held public office. Is that what you want ?
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                            • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 3 months ago
                              No not at all. One doesn't have to be rich to want to serve your country. And it's not that they shouldn't get paid, but it should not be a living. Then and only then will they be doing it for reasons other than getting rich off the backs of the taxpayers.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
              I couldn't disagree more. It's opportune that you bring up Kissinger, and then; "WE HAVE NO REAL IDEA what is really going on. Which is as it should be" and "the controls in the hands of the most eithical, educated politicians so that they will be modt likely to put ethical, educated bureaucrats into the policy positions to make the best possible decisions for our country."

              I'm including an entire description of an event that Kissinger, McNamara, and LBJ swore to and used as the justification for legislation giving LBJ the authority to begin the Vietnam War. I was drafted into that "War" some 16 months later. Much, much later; McNamara and Kissinger both confessed that it was a "Black Flag" event. Totally false.

              "The Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnamese: Sự kiện Vịnh Bắc Bộ), also known as the USS Maddox incident, is the name given to what were originally claimed to be two separate confrontations involving North Vietnam and the United States in the waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread claims that either one or both incidents were false, and possibly purposefully so. On August 2, 1964, the destroyer USS Maddox, while performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations, reported being attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron.[1] Maddox expended over 280 3-inch and 5-inch shells in what was claimed to be a sea battle. One US aircraft was damaged, three North Vietnamese torpedo boats were allegedly damaged, and four North Vietnamese sailors were said to have been killed, with six more wounded. There were no U.S. casualties.[2]

              It was originally claimed by the National Security Agency that a Second Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred on August 4, 1964, as another sea battle, but instead evidence was found of "Tonkin ghosts"[3] (false radar images) and not actual North Vietnamese torpedo boats. In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 2 USS Maddox attack happened with no Defense Department response, but the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.[4]

              The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying US conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.

              In 1995, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara met with former Vietnam People's Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp to ask what happened on 4 August 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[5] Giáp claimed that the attack had been imaginary.[6]

              In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded that Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese naval vessels present during the incident of August 4. The report stated regarding the first incident on August 2 that "at 1500G,[note 1] Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G,[note 1] the Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first."[7]"

              I think we absolutely need to know the whats, whys, and hows of everything anyone does in gov't at all times, rather than 20 or 30 years later after all the dead Americans and treasure spent.
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              • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
                That would put you in Edward Snowden's camp. And is dangerously misguided. If all Americans know every detail about what our government is doing, albeit in our name, then our enemies will also know it and put our security at risk. In the real world there is no perfect solution and one has to do the cost / benefit analysis as they see fit. But indicting all politicians on the mistakes of some is unfair.
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                • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
                  What puts me in Edward Snowden's camp? That it was 39 years after the event that we finally found out that our" most eithical, educated politicians so that they will be modt likely to put ethical, educated bureaucrats into the policy positions to make the best possible decisions for our country." lied to the world leading to some 54,000 American deaths and several hundred thousand dead Vietnamese, not to count the few hundred thousand of suicide and OD deaths of Viet vets that's still going on today. If that's what puts me in Edward Snowden's camp, letting the American people know just how much they've been and are being lied to, then I'd be proud to join him. The absolute shame of this country is that we haven't listened to or paid attention to what he's told us.

                  Then Nixon (I'm Not A Crook), then Reagan (I Don't Have A Memory Of That), Bush I (Read My Lips), Clinton (It Depends On What The Definition of Is, Is), Bush II (Mission Accomplished) and Obama (If You Like Your Doctor, Then You Can Keep Your Doctor).
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 3 months ago
    it's the truth about war. . about 2975 people died on 11sept2001
    and more have died since. . we should have responded
    differently. . more focused and smarter. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      I hope you mean 'We the People' when you say "we should have" and maybe that response should have been directed towards the evil that's been running this country's foreign policy and activities since WWII.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 3 months ago
        I meant that we as a country, based on the choices of the people,
        should have focused our effort more carefully when using military
        force -- for example, we could have continued on to remove
        SoDamInsane from Baghdad after helping the Kuwaitis, etc.
        or, we could have let Kuwait burn and relied on new tech
        in the Dakotas earlier than we did. . Rand had Ellis Wyatt
        claiming shale oil in the fifties. . we could have, too. -- j
        .
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          Do you forget who put "SoDaminsane" as you call him, in place in Baghdad in the first place or who funded his weapons and war with Iran, that he then turned on Kuwait. But then again, maybe you're happy with and proud of our foreign policy of the last many years.
          But if we're going to keep on with that part of the world as we've done in the last few years and take the oil, let's admit it up front. Let's know why we're spending our(We The People) treasure, our reputation, and our blood and who's benefiting from it.
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          • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 3 months ago
            do you figure that we are paying for middle eastern oil with
            our soldiers' lives? . what an amazing twist! . I will ride a
            bicycle before risking the first u.s. soldier's life! -- j
            .
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
      Still considering the the dismal record of what used to be and still is the principle war mongering party Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, LBJ the overall casualty rate is marvelously better since the military started ignoring certain Secretaries of State and Presidents.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
    Let's examine the verbiage.. The war on terror increased by4,500 % or 45 times one hundred. 45 x 100 = 4500 percent. In what terms or relative to what? Money Spent? Bodies on the ground or in support. Body bags used? Ammunition expenditures? Area covered?
    Active and Reserve units deployed, Our dead, their dead, collateral dead and while we're at it. what is the definition of collateral and then what phases. Since the invasion in 2003 and then how is the percentage of ...what?...divided between administrations in which ever terms it refers to.

    My theory is newspapers and tv time and related advertisng sold. Or perhaps the income of the author? Not the poster....the originator(s) of the information. Is it, like million man march, 100,000 cops in the street, or balanced budget with a surplus pure BS or is it hard fact. Trouble is the whole comment is subjective. What figures are provided have no source....following the source URL one is bumped to somebody named Ben Swann who is quoting US Government Figures where most of the above comes from but....once again...no cites no sources. It could be be the daily sow belly futures for all we know..

    While I would like to use such information I stop at using anything that is not sourced. The trail ran cold four or five layers with only something called the Global Terrorism Index likewise not sourced other than stating 'Government Figures.' Associates were a plethora of World Peace this and that llikewise dead ends. Which left curiously enough New York Times, Washington Post. Huffington and The Guardian.

    On the other hand they claimed to be big time objectivists. All those figures and not one source? Shades of Ayn Rands immigration forgery. Sounds good. You want it to be good but...Where's the beef?

    Disappointing to say the least. Unusable to be perfectly honest.

    I will stand corrected when I hear moooooo instead of "Parts is parts!"
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
    the only thing truly wrong with the thread ar the words main stream media coupled to free thought. That's a new oxymoron on me. But I managed to deal with it and got through all of it only to find out....it's still an oxymoron. However there is enough tar to go around as long as we don't try to excuse one half of the leftist government party by blaming the other half.
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  • -1
    Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
    Stopping Shia on Sunni Genocide was replaced with an internal power struggle. Sunni Arab's in the south lost the bulk of their population the rest fled. The Sunni Kurds lost at least 80,000. As for the Christians...like what's left of the swamp Arabs they fled. What about Afghanistan? That's a question this go round for the liberals. Going back in there makes this one Obama's War and not separating and supporting Kurdistan thereby correcting the British mistake lays at the doors of the Government Party in general not just one half. There are no conservatives in power and haven't been since Bush I. Rino to Dino it's all left of center.
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    • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
      Love your points. Some don't care to be confused by facts that can be backed up with actual data.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
        Did they ever come up with factual data? All the sites listed went to one reporter quoting another reporter and then some major left wing media sources complimenting them for the report. So far it's just numbers but then being non confrontational I can see why they wouldn't want to come up with actual facts at least none that made it to my eyes. If you have some send it to the private box. So far, to me, it's just a hoax, they got caught, and the rest is sad. Something is being covered up that's for sure. These things usually have some ground truth - But What? Where, When, Why, How? Maybe it's some secret mystic un named agent like the excuse they used after the fact for invading Kosovo? i'd be ashamed too but I'm not hiding...I was simply asking. Now I'm pouring gas on the fire.
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        • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
          I'm still learning to navigate this circus - how do I send anything to a private box ? Thnx
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 3 months ago
            Go to the posters name look along the top edge of the page then sort by length of time or alpha beta. If they are prolific and involved will be at the top. The other way is punch on their posting name such as bethesda-gal . In the top left hand corner it will see private message answers to those go back and forth the same way. i just used one today to clear up a potential cross posting problem and another to verify this thread has not available data sites, cites nor sources to back up the figures posted. Appears I'm not the only interested in what ever the real problem is.. however it's like global warming....it's used to exploit and marginalizes real problems.
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            • Posted by Bethesda-gal 8 years, 3 months ago
              Hmm, I clicked on your name and went to your profile and clicked on the box that said message with a pencil icon but it said I had to be a producer. Am I not looking in the right place ?
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