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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 8 years, 4 months ago
    Is this process patented? Hopefully the inventor is fully protected. Looking at the tech graphs in the Gizmag article makes me think it's a novel way of quenching low-carbon steel. This seems like the kind of process that could be included in major steel mills' thermomechanical processing line, so they would have to license it from the patent holder. There is nothing "new" about the steel chemistry, just the way the carbon is arranged within the matrix due to the quenching process.

    Any sophomore in engineering materials class has heard of bainite, but he has also been told it's a difficult microstructure to achieve reliably. The heating and quenching process has to be carefully controlled. This is probably the truly valuable intellectual property of Flash Bainite.

    Another metallurgical process which generates bainitic microstructure is austempering, which is normally applied to ductile cast iron. This involves heating the workpiece above austenitization temperature, then quenching into molten salt with a hold time proportional to the workpiece material thickness, then slow cooling to room temperature.

    The Flash Bainite process I would guess is highly dependent on timing the application of the water quench to get the correct rate of cooling to avoid forming unwanted microstructures. I got a kick out of the picture of the pilot plant setup's 1000kW induction heating generator. I worked for a couple of years with induction heat treating, but never with a generator that big. About 30 years ago, I wrote my college thesis on dual-frequency induction hardening of gears. If I recall correctly, the RF generator I used was 100kW.
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    • Posted by $ johnrobert2 8 years, 4 months ago
      Damn but it looks complicated from the Wiki description. From what I can gather, the transformationals are dependent on a critical temperature gradient involving a specific, very tight upper temperature range and a tightly controlled quenching within a very narrow range. As one poster posited, what would happen if a copper based component were added to the melt and allowed to integrate to the interstices of the quenched metal? jbrenner, here's one for your class.
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
    Damn! In 2013 I bought a F-150 with the ecoboost engine 345 hp and after 20,000 miles it was getting 21 or so mpg on the highway at 75 mph. when I learned about the 2015 F-150 ecoboost same engine only with a 750 reduction in weight I traded for it. I have 7000 miles on it and the milage is 23 in town and close to 30 when on cruise control at 68 on the highway. That is fast enough for me these days. I spent the 1200 for the extended warrantee to 60,000 miles because they told me nothing should change for 5 years. But if Ford further reduces the weight significantly I may have to trade agin only this time I'll get the smaller enging since I really don't need the power I have because I do not do much towing. I really like this one but if they reduce the weight another 300/400 pounds that means better gas mileage. Damn!
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  • Posted by minorwork 8 years, 4 months ago
    Screw carbon, Rearden Metal's the cheaper, better, faster alternative. Coming soon to a vehicle in my garage... if I had a garage.
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    • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 4 months ago
      Actually you need carbon to fit in the interstices of the alloy. Rearden Metal seemed to combine the features of substitutional alloys (in this case, copper for iron) and interstitial alloys (with carbon in the interstices). I'd like to see someone try out this flash process on an iron-copper-carbon alloy.
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      • Posted by minorwork 8 years, 4 months ago
        True, I was thinking of the all carbon fiber exterior such as I saw that replaced the fiberglass exterior of SEVEN. SEVEN is an electric powered four place vehicle constructed to compete in the Progressive 100 mpg X Prize a couple of years ago. I wonder if the weight versus strength ration between the new steel is less than their carbon fiber epoxy hull. http://illuminatimotorworks.org/
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 4 months ago
    Gotta watch that weight, what little is left must be right over the wheels.
    Will be watching the new all aluminum F-150, especially in the snow where weight counts the most.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      Sand Bags over the rear axle. Then in good weather take them out. However too light is very bad considering traction is what makes a car move and thinking about rain ...I like 4W High Range especially for rain or ice. Second thought keep the sandbags and watch out four the suicidals in the roller skates.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 4 months ago
        They just have to learn how to distribute the weight.
        Had an old Beamer and a 240Z that were great in the snow...they were very light...because the center of gravity was low.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
    This is excellent news. I recall reading about this some years ago - perhaps due to the prior posting - and all I can say is "Faster!".

    I would not mind if the parts manufactured were of the same specs as the current ones and provided additional safety standards, as opposed to reducing the gauge of the steel to lighten the resulting product and maintaining the same safety standards. Since I am amongst those who think that there are enough petroleum resources to last for a couple of centuries, I would prefer to enhance vehicular safety than increase mpg.

    Unfortunately, this is not what will 'sell cars'. "Green" and "Low MPG" will sell cars.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 4 months ago
      It should improve structural integrity and reduce weight on aircraft - which would reduce fuel consumption.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago
        I was not clear: If it did not reduce fuel consumption but did improve structure and hence safety, it would still be worth doing. The concern about fuel consumption is due to thinking that we have only a small amount of fossil fuels left or that the petrol is expensive. If fuel is abundant and inexpensive, then you could keep the weight the same and improve the structural integrity.

        No, this is not what is going to 'work' in the real world - you are spot on there. But it is still a good improvement.

        Jan
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
          i had the same question. This going to result in more rollerskate death traps or will it withstand crash tests with 18 wheelers, cement trucks and your standard idiot drivers? I'm still liking 1.5 ton pickups and heavy duty Utility Vehicles along with my life is more important than roller skate drivers lives.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 4 months ago
            Precisely. There is a little known research fact that automobile fatalities have tracked right along with fuel mileage standards hikes. Makes sense in the basic physics: in order to propel a given mass at a given velocity there must be a mathematically derived force. Add in the inefficiencies in the internal combustion engine and transmission systems and really all the auto manufacturers have control over is mass. So they make lighter vehicles which are less crash-resistant.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 4 months ago
          this should improve crash performance while reducing
          fuel consumption. . when it is introduced into a line of cars,
          they will probably go conservative until history is generated
          to give them confidence for even thinner gauge use. -- j
          .
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
    I wonder if A.R. ever thought that her vision of Reardon Steel would become a reality. Next, I suppose, will be Galt's engine. We're almost completely at her dystopian world. I'm not sure whether this gives me the creeps or hope for the future. If it's hope, it's pretty far into the future at the way things are going now.
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    • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 4 months ago
      Fiction has the interesting habit of becoming fact. Look at the technology in Startrek the Original Series.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
        True. But it can also be way off. As a S.F. fan from the age of 10, I don't recall any stories that predicted the dominance of computers and robotics in the 21st century.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
          That was Azimov and Clarke, Heinlein and a few others. Not as a direct prediction but as a common ordinary everyday tool in the future although I,Robot The laws of robotics and 2001 a Space Odyssey would be my sources for such a prediction.
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          • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
            I forgot Asimov. I don't know how I could because I once wrote a term paper on him. See what happens in old age? HAL doesn't count because in the movie it didn't indicate anything about computers dominating the general masses as they do today. Rather the moon and space station gave one to believe that most progress was in transportation.
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  • Posted by Joseph23006 8 years, 4 months ago
    Just keep it away from the government thieves and their 'for the common good' line and 'fair share' equivocations. e have already seen how government help has damaged more businesses than it has helped!
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 4 months ago
    Seems like it is sort of good, but nothing earth shattering. Applied to 4130 steel, it is twice the strength of fully annealed 4130, but it is about the same strength as tempered 4130 (213ksi), with 14% vs 10% elongation.

    In addition, it is important to consider that in small sections (thin sheets) material properties can be greatly overstated relative to thick sections, because the defects are oriented in the direction of the processing. Low carbon steel wire can be 150ksi, with great elongation, but the same material in thick sections is ~50ksi.

    Seems promising, and not to be ignored, but not earth shattering. I would not invest my whole 401K in it.

    Link to Army Lab Test:
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 4 months ago
    In the book AS Rand refers to atmospheric electricity as a source of power for Galt's motor. This is a real phenomena and motors that use this source of energy have been built and they work. See "http://laserhacker.com/?cat=20".
    In the movie AS1 Dagney notes that the motor employs the "Casimir Effect" which is also a very real phenomena and is a demonstration of the existence of "Vacuum Energy", which is very different from atmospheric electriity but just as real. So was AR prescient or did she know something that the rest of us will ultimately discover?
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    • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 4 months ago
      Prof, I messed around with some very fat capacitors,
      a little while ago, alongside a pedal-powered generator.
      the capacitors leak down before you can use the power.
      it is distressing how fast. . ham radio capacitors in a
      tall stack also leak down rapidly -- in minutes. . then, I
      started messing around with lithium batteries. . no fires, yet! -- j
      .
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
        You nee the kind like we had in the Army for the Demolition kits....used them fro the electic blasting caps...then there is the old Model T coil to soup up the zap power......some of Tesla's stuff....time to visit the old tried and true?
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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 8 years, 4 months ago
    Anyone know the stock symbol for this company? I may want to put some money in. Does that make me a looter or a moocher?
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      No it makes you an investor using your current wealth or money in excess of current need. A key component of capitalism . Inventor, Manufacturer or provider if it's a service, employment of labor. Investor to provide funding, then comes advertising, sales, etc etc etc. I like to look at labor as everyone including the investor whose dollars serve in place of on hands labor for a fee but also count everyone from the inventor now R&D, CEO, Management, AND any one else employed in the same way. They all exchange or contribute their skills to the finished product in exchange for income and if the income is in excess of need becomes wealth that may be invested. The best run businesses from BB&T work as a team. The worst run businesses such as GMC/UAW work as antagonists. The best run businesses in effect share the wealth of he business (excess to needs of the business) and both the pride and responsibilities of ownership through stock options and payroll deduction purchases so everyone has measurable 'skin in the game.' Over 50 years those small investments can turn in to a respectable pile of retirement money as it's or it was not taxed unless you drew money out for personal use and if you escaped divorce courts.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 4 months ago
      If you were using dollars produced via crony crapitalism to fund such investments as James Taggart et al. had used to invest in d'Anconia Steel in Atlas Shrugged, is that a form of looting? Ayn Rand thought so.

      I think your case, however, is different. You would be endorsing the value of the company you were investing in with uncontaminated dollars.

      This part of AS might have been the hardest for me to deal with. I can totally understand that d'Anconia did not want to be polluted with dollars from people that he did not share values with. However, there undoubtedly were many everyday investors like me who were endorsing the values of d'Anconia whose stock cratered. This is an unfortunate consequence and points to the fact that when a society goes down the tubes, the non-titans who share the values of titans frequently go down with the rest of society. Sad, but A = A.
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